Discussion: When did the Showa Age go Wrong?

[TokyoVigilante]

At least the ones from Battle in Outer Space had stuff that looked cooler.

[shinmattiathekaiju]

While they are repetitive, they are all really distinct;

Xilians want to turn Earth into a colony for its water supply.

Kilaaks suck and have no reason for almost anything they ever did.

The Nebulans wanted to committed Galactic genocide to achieve world peace (and preserve the children? Kill them more humanely?)

The Seatopians attacked out of vengeance.

The Simians were losing their planet to the gravitational pull of a black hole and wanted Earth for a new planet.

Kilaaks wanted a hot planet.

[Tohosaurus]

While they are repetitive, they are all really distinct;

Xilians want to turn Earth into a colony for its water supply.

Kilaaks suck and have no reason for almost anything they ever did.

The Nebulans wanted to committed Galactic genocide to achieve world peace (and preserve the children? Kill them more humanely?)

The Seatopians attacked out of vengeance.

The Simians were losing their planet to the gravitational pull of a black hole and wanted Earth for a new planet.

Distinct for us, probably. I mean I find each alien race distinct myself but if I watch it with far more casual friends, it's more like "So the plot is aliens again?"

I just watched Battle in Outer Space with the commentary on last night. Makes me smile because NOTHING looks real.

[TokyoVigilante]

Kilaaks wanted a hot planet.

Is that something that didn't get mentioned in the International dub? skreeonk ADV copy. But they're still the blandest and least visually interesting invaders that ever came from Toho.

Distinct for us, probably. I mean I find each alien race distinct myself but if I watch it with far more casual friends, it's more like "So the plot is aliens again?"

I just watched Battle in Outer Space with the commentary on last night. Makes me smile because NOTHING looks real.

That's just a case of people watering down the plots and not paying attentions to the details of the movie they're watching; these aren't even finer details, their motivations are often in the basic synopsis of the film in question. It would be like if I marathoned the Harry Potter films and groaned "Uugh, Hogwarts and Voldemort again?"

Battle in Outer Space is an enjoyable little sci-fi boggle. It's not really notable and mostly forgettable, but it's an breezy little alien invasion movie.

[shinmattiathekaiju]

Kilaaks wanted a hot planet.

Is that something that didn't get mentioned in the International dub? skreeonk ADV copy. But they're still the blandest and least visually interesting invaders that ever came from Toho.

Woah,easy buddy.

DAM is my favourite Godzilla movie of all time along with Gojira and Godzilla vs Biollante.

[TokyoVigilante]

Damn is a DAM fine movie, but that doesn't mean the Kilaaks aren't a really bland and boring invader.

[Tohosaurus]

Is that something that didn't get mentioned in the International dub? skreeonk ADV copy. But they're still the blandest and least visually interesting invaders that ever came from Toho.

That's just a case of people watering down the plots and not paying attentions to the details of the movie they're watching; these aren't even finer details, their motivations are often in the basic synopsis of the film in question. It would be like if I marathoned the Harry Potter films and groaned "Uugh, Hogwarts and Voldemort again?"

Battle in Outer Space is an enjoyable little sci-fi boggle. It's not really notable and mostly forgettable, but it's an breezy little alien invasion movie.

IIRC, the ADV copy of DAM mentions how the Kilaaks need/want heat and whatnot, although I don't remember if they specifically mentioned wanting a hot planet. It was implied though, since there's no other reason for them to take over Earth (although wouldn't Mars or Venus have worked better temperature wise?). I much prefer any of the other Showa alien invasion Godzilla movies, anyhow.

A watered down plot, yes, I can buy that. But at the same time they're right in that sense. I don't like Harry Potter films and part of it is because it seems same old, and since I'm not really a fan of that type of fantasy to begin with that makes me less likely to really search for the details or differences, so I can imagine that's what would turn off would-be fans of the Godzilla Showa universe, or at least keep them from being as appreciated as we do (holy run on sentence, Batman!). Just my guess. I mean at the end of the day, as I said, I still like the films. I can't think of any of the alien plot films that I'd rather have killed or changed. Still, I have to admit that it's part of my affinity for the films as it is that allows me to appreciate it more. I'm sure Ghidorah and Astro Monster being right next to each other with a similar plot and set of monsters would be boring to many.

[TokyoVigilante]

A watered down plot, yes, I can buy that. But at the same time they're right in that sense. I don't like Harry Potter films and part of it is because it seems same old, and since I'm not really a fan of that type of fantasy to begin with that makes me less likely to really search for the details or differences, so I can imagine that's what would turn off would-be fans of the Godzilla Showa universe, or at least keep them from being as appreciated as we do (holy run on sentence, Batman!). Just my guess. I mean at the end of the day, as I said, I still like the films. I can't think of any of the alien plot films that I'd rather have killed or changed. Still, I have to admit that it's part of my affinity for the films as it is that allows me to appreciate it more. I'm sure Ghidorah and Astro Monster being right next to each other with a similar plot and set of monsters would be boring to many.

But see, even that reaction to the Harry Potter films would be selling each film short even though numerous different characters, subplots, dynamics, and elements of the HP mythos get explored in each film even if they are all the technically about the same thing. I don't really like Harry Potter films either, but having that reaction on my part would be dumb and not doing the films justice. Criticizing the Showa films numerous alien invasion plots because people who are lazy and don't want to bother paying attention to the films they're apparently forming an opinion on might find them repetitive is dumb.

And I've always found the criticism of Monster Zero that it's just the same as Ghidorah to be equally as dumb. They're drastically different films.

[Gojira-Fan]

I would say it is less because of the plots that make some of the Alien Invasion movies bad, and more of the results of budget cuts. I would be able to tolerate movies like GODZILLA VS. GIGAN if it were more competently made.

[Tohosaurus]

But see, even that reaction to the Harry Potter films would be selling each film short even though numerous different characters, subplots, dynamics, and elements of the HP mythos get explored in each film even if they are all the technically about the same thing. I don't really like Harry Potter films either, but having that reaction on my part would be dumb and not doing the films justice. Criticizing the Showa films numerous alien invasion plots because people who are lazy and don't want to bother paying attention to the films they're apparently forming an opinion on might find them repetitive is dumb.

And I've always found the criticism of Monster Zero that it's just the same as Ghidorah to be equally as dumb. They're drastically different films.

Oh definitely. Like I said, I'm not really interested in that type of fantasy book/film to begin with so my interest is easily lost on it anyway. I fully understand the popularity and legendary status that Harry Potter already has around it and simply accept that it's still not really my thing. So you'll never see me say something to the effect of Harry Potter being stupid or lame or boring, just that it's not my personal cup of tea, one that I know I'm in a minority of. After all, how many people can praise a Showa Godzilla film and be bored in a Harry Potter film? Certainly unique taste to say the least.

You and I both know the distinctiveness of Ghidorah and Astro Monster, much less other alien Showa plots. But growing up I know my mother thought them all very similar; Lord knows she probably knew each of them by heart by how often I watched them anyway. It's just a matter of whether or not you'd be interested in it in the first place. If not, it doesn't really matter. It'll just be repetitive.

I would say it is less because of the plots that make some of the Alien Invasion movies bad, and more of the results of budget cuts. I would be able to tolerate movies like GODZILLA VS. GIGAN if it were more competently made.

There's probably something to that too, although I myself enjoy them all ... Gigan being the least of them, however.

[Gojira-Fan]

I would say it is less because of the plots that make some of the Alien Invasion movies bad, and more of the results of budget cuts. I would be able to tolerate movies like GODZILLA VS. GIGAN if it were more competently made.

There's probably something to that too, although I myself enjoy them all ... Gigan being the least of them, however.

I like most of them. I loved Astro-Monster. I haven't seen DAM in a long time. I liked Godzilla Vs. Mechagodzilla, although the climax I felt was kind of disappointing. And Terror of Mechagodzilla is my favorite Godzilla film.
But Gigan is like watching your favorite series swirl around in a toilet bowl and then flushed into a sewer.
And Megalon is the sewer.

[Tohosaurus]

I would say it is less because of the plots that make some of the Alien Invasion movies bad, and more of the results of budget cuts. I would be able to tolerate movies like GODZILLA VS. GIGAN if it were more competently made.

There's probably something to that too, although I myself enjoy them all ... Gigan being the least of them, however.

I like most of them. I loved Astro-Monster. I haven't seen DAM in a long time. I liked Godzilla Vs. Mechagodzilla, although the climax I felt was kind of disappointing. And Terror of Mechagodzilla is my favorite Godzilla film.
But Gigan is like watching your favorite series swirl around in a toilet bowl and then flushed into a sewer.
And Megalon is the sewer.

I'm a big Mechagodzilla/TOMG fan. Hedorah too.

[Goji]

How is the climax of MECHAGODZILLA 74' even in the least bit disappointing?

[The Dark Uniter]

I"m asking that as well.

[Tyler]

I did find it a bit odd how the good guys trying to break out of the Black Hole base died in the explosion. The other characters don't seem to react to it that much.

[DaikaijuSokogeki!]

I did find it a bit odd how the good guys trying to break out of the Black Hole base died in the explosion. The other characters don't seem to react to it that much.

I was always under the impression they lived. After all, don't you see one or two of those characters in the last scene of the film? The editing and dialogue after the explosion is misleading, though.

[NebulaMSpacehunter]

I don't think the Showa series "went wrong" necessarily, but the decline in quality definately came after Destroy All Monsters. Sorry if I'm coming a little late in the thread

[Killswitch]

My favorite films were made by the team of Honda & Tsuburaya. When that chemistry was lost, the films were never the same.

I know the films of the 70's lacked a good budget, but they also lacked the experience, craftsmanship & heart that Honda & Tsuburaya brought to the table during the 60's. Not only did I love Godzilla, Rodan & Mothra, but I also loved the Toho Universe that Honda & Tsuburaya placed them into.

[Chris55]

If there's one thing I like about the Showa era above the other series it's that when the monsters fought, they beat the shit out of each other.

[Gojira-Fan]

How is the climax of MECHAGODZILLA 74' even in the least bit disappointing?

I should have been more clear. I felt for a movie titled "Godzilla Vs. Mechagodzilla", that the actual final climatic fight between the two monsters was awfully short.