Talkback Thread #5: Ghidorah, the Three Headed Monster(1964)

[miguelnuva]

Hmm, that blue-colored Ghidorah looks odd. I guess everyone is so used to him being gold, that picturing him in any different color just doesn't seem right. I thought the same way until I saw this Gigabrain figure:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/502/1935 ... dd55_z.jpg

Black Ghidorah would have been super-awesome.

Only if we would have gotten Green Godzilla.

Hard to imagine, but even that would work if he was green from the start and everyone got used to it over years.

Green would have clashed good against the showa opponents. Its why GiraGoji is one of my favorite suits.

[GodzillaFanatic2001]

Does anyone know the story behind this poster? It's obviously made out of the International Godzilla vs Megalon poster, but where is it from, how or why does it exist? Has anyone else ever seen it before?

[Missingno.]

Does anyone know the story behind this poster? It's obviously made out of the International Godzilla vs Megalon poster, but where is it from, how or why does it exist? Has anyone else ever seen it before?
[/Pic]http://www.gstatic.com/tv/thumb/moviepo ... _v7_aa.jpg[/Pic]

That looks like a very well-done Photoshop job. It bears too much of a resemblance to the Godzilla vs. Megalon poster to be legitimate. Especially with that tagline on the upper left corner, which is from GvM. Basically, a fan-made Godzilla vs. Gigan poster, if you ask me.

[GodzillaFanatic2001]

I also found this interesting VHS release:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XKBpavoBuL4/T ... +front.jpg

[Goji]

^ Yeah. It's a really rare Canadian release. All of the Interglobal ones are really hard to come by.

[GodzillaFanatic2001]

I noticed that, on the poster, in the bottom right corner, there is what appears to be this companies logo:
http://www.closinglogos.com/page/Metrom ... orporation

[Rodan]

Rewatched this both subtitled and in its U.S. cut, coming off a recent viewing of Mothra vs. Godzilla (which itself had come off a recent viewing of King Kong vs. Godzilla).

Watching it immediately after Mothra vs. Godzilla does not set it up for kind impressions. It's apparent as early as the opening credits that it's a very different type of movie. Rather than the ominous stormy sea and empty beach of the previous film, we get clips and stills from the climactic fight the film wants you to know is to come. It works, but it feels a little sloppier, and it's obvious we're in (intentional) camp mode.

The thing that really gets me about this is that the tight editing and framing from Mothra vs. is gone. Scenes tend to run a little longer than they need to. The Tohoscope is less intentionally used (lots of figures in the center of otherwise empty frames compared to the meticulously structured previous entry), fewer well-chosen reaction cuts, etc. This applies to both the effects and drama scenes. It's serviceable, and completely understandable given the enormously rigorous work the crew was undertaking by putting Mothra vs., Dogora, and this movie out in the same year, but it looks like Mothra vs. got most of the love. That's a beautifully made film. This is an okay one.

As far as the camp goes, I actually wish it were a little quirkier throughout. It winds up completely bonkers by its climax, of course, with the Mothra fairies translating monster-language (the Mothra fairies are the MVPs of this film, by the way), but I'm not sure if Honda's style totally works with this script. It probably does elevate the film, but it doesn't mesh nearly as well as it does with the more somber Mothra vs. or the hip style of Astro-Monster (or, two years earlier, the complete satire of King Kong vs.). I might actually enjoy this more than its sequel, personally, but something about it feels a little uninspired.

I think I squarely prefer the American cut here. The snappier dialogue and editing do it well, and the dubbing is very, very well done. The script is faithful, too, so it's not like anything noticeably doesn't mesh (unless you get up in arms about changing Venus to Mars for some reason). I'll have to remember to privilege the U.S. version next time I watch it. It's a really good time.

Plus you get to play spot the MF Doom sample.

[JVM]

Rewatched this one (the U. S. cut) today after a long while, and still find myself impressed with this one. I don't have a solid critical argument for it -- it's far from a perfect film, but I have a big soft spot for it. I think part of it is I do appreciate the human story, which for all it's flaws, has some unique elements among the franchise. I also think it has one of the more interesting contrasts between human-monster interactions, with the human villain dying of the consequences of the monsters.

I find it's transitional nature between the more serious and more campy films an especially redeeming quality these days. It's a movie that knows when to take itself seriously, but knows when to have a little fun, a quality I think most later entries don't always balance as effectively.

[Mechagigan]

I always liked the human-monster balance in this movie. The main plot always keeps you really interested, and the Kaiju scenes remain as popcorn fun as ever, without either taking dominance over the other.

[godzillalives88]

I'm a big GTTHM fan. I think Shindo is a really likable, earnest protagonist, and the monster action's great. Having seen Monster Zero first, I remember as a kid being surprised that Godzilla and Rodan spend the bulk of the movie fighting (which is really cool). It understandably seems more rushed than Mothra or Monster Zero, but there's a cool "culmination" feeling to it - as several different movies/universes are tied together at once. It also has my favorite songs from the cosmos, and I always gets chills when Godzilla joins the final battle - as you literally see the moment he becomes an anti-hero. Really my only beef with it is I don't think the Venusian sub-plot has much of a payoff. You'd think having insight into Ghidorah, she'd be able to advise on how to destroy it, but it's the cosmos who suggest teaming the monsters together. Likewise, all she really does is save the cosmos with her boat prediction, and give Ghidorah a back story.

That, and Godzilla not using his ray against Ghidorah are my only real problems with it. Otherwise it's solidly one of my favorite Godzilla movies.

[Shobijin]

This movie's trailer and beginning hypes it as a huge battle with many monsters, but we had to be subjected to an outrageous human story with Venusians and an assassination plot. Of course, once the monsters are together, it is fantastic, and this is the movie where Godzilla officially makes his "babyface turn" (pro wrestling term).

Mothra larva was heroic (where was the other one? haha) and Ghidorah's visuals and destruction make this one a classic. Glad Rodan came back and became a major player. However, the plot was wacky and there is a lot of cheese in this one to be my favorite Showa movie.

[Zarm]

Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster is a bit of an all-star affair, uniting nearly all of the kaiju that had appeared in the Toho-verse to date (except for the very-dead Anguirus and the rights-tricky Kong) against a menacing new foe… with surprisingly-little screen time for the title character.

Early Toho sure does love it some reporters/photographers, as well as scientists, a light romance, and adult siblings; throw them all into the mix, stir vigorously, and you get the relatively standard, interchangeable supporting players. Nothing revolutionary or particularly spellbinding here… but in among this stock cast (plus the shobijin, somehow willingly making TV appearances in a fancy stage show, which you’d think would bring back bad memories), we do get a character who’s rather unique- the princess-turned-prophet Selina.

It feels ironic, with the Godzilla series on the verge of going full-on into the space aliens era that would dominate the majority of its remainder (south seas island period non-withstanding), that it feels as if they are just shy of pulling the trigger here, with a UFO society that is less-than-credible, and an apparent Venusian spirit that 'may' just be a delusion or race memory (though, based on prognostication record, seems to be legit). It’s like they wanted to test the waters on bringing in aliens without actually risking ridicule by delving in if the audiences rejected it.

The princess herself is a notable role within the story, but not a particularly compelling character, as her semi-catatonic, distant persona precludes much character development.

In the world of kaiju, meanwhile, we get some… interesting continuity. The Mothra larva is back, looking both malevolent (with its red eyes) but also smaller, cuter, and more fragile- much more like a baby- than before. Seeing the little guy take on the scrappy-underdog role and face Ghidorah alone, and riding on Rodan’s back (awwwwww…) is a lot of fun; one of the highlights of this movie.

Oh, and its sibling died offscreen after the last movie. Yeah, that’s just kind of dropped out there, and no one seems too broken up about it. They’re just sort of like ‘well, what about the other one, then?’ (It’s also a little annoying, because the twin larvae thing was reprised in Tokyo SOS, which never got a sequel; while we’ve had Mothra-and-Battra, and dozens of tiny little fairy Mothras, we have yet two see two full-grown, sibling Imago Mothras, which I think would be awesome. I’d love to see a movie with dual (differently-colored) Mothras fighting together against a large and deadly foe!)

It does seem that Mothra’s justification for getting involved is growing flimsier and flimsier; it’s rather unsurprising that she’s on the verge of taking rather a long break. It’s kind of like Batman and the Justice League; sooner or later, as he says in the Our Worlds At War crossover, ‘Gotham is my priority.’ With a home territory to defend as his primary purpose, it doesn’t’ make a lot of sense to keep venturing out to deal with other things.

But as half of one duo is lost, half of another returned; I suppose that it’s unsurprising that, resistant as he seems to be to radioactive breath, Rodan would only be inconvenienced by a little thing like boiling lava. (Not as true of his mate, sadly). Another bit of nice continuity from these early films (I suppose later films kept continuity too, but only because Godzilla always left into the sea and came back out of it, making it pretty easy to bring him back from where we saw him last), Rodan emerges from his tomb of volcanic rock, and immediately takes on Godzilla. Their fight is actually pretty hilarious- just as the conversation with Mothra suggests, they are almost rough-housing more than fighting to the death; where Godzilla was trying to kill Anguirus with brutal prejudice a few films before, this is more akin to stereotypical drunken Scottsman in film, or a pair of Klingons (or, for that matter, brothers growing up)- they fight because they enjoy a good scrap. That tone carries through pretty successfully in battle, and I love the image of Rodan picking up an irate Godzilla and just flying him helplessly around.

Rodan is always someone I find it hard to justify getting a top-tier spot due to his lack of offensive, beam-style weaponry (what can I say? That stuff just looks orders of magnitude more damaging than teeth and claws and beaks- and certainly, vs. Kong seemed to suggest that, yeah, it simply puts a kaiju in a whole different class that none-weaponized kaiju can’t compete with), but his seeming (if unexplained) imperviousness to damage, merely annoyed by the heat ray that melts steel towers and sets ships aflame, does a lot to amp up his credibility as one of the heavy-hitters. He’s not a supreme damage-dealer, but he is a tank when it comes to resisting damage. (Plus, he displays another of his seldom-discussed superpowers immediately after awakening… atomic-powered mimicry, in which he can duplicate the cries of his foes flawlessly! )

Speaking of ships aflame, how cool was it to see a pod of whales fleeing from Godzilla’s emergence? That was a great touch, and one of his best introductions to date. Godzilla here (like the surprisingly-cooperative Rodan, who is theoretically grieving his mate) is an embittered, grumpy cuss who just wants to be left alone; he has no love for humans, as he’s rather tired of getting shot at and zapped by them; it’s an interesting characterization, and an important ‘misunderstood’ link in the sudden transformation from villain to eventual hero. As such, beyond his initial menacing appearance, Godzilla doesn’t focus so much on destroying human cities as he does simply scrapping with Rodan for a good time, with any collateral damage incidental and barely-noticed. In fact, it’s a measure of the films’ shifting attitude that, at the end, Godzilla and Rodan are just kind of… left on Japanese soil, with the Shobijin waving goodbye as they sail off. No one’s worried how to destroy them, how to defeat them, how to drive them back to the sea; they’re just standing in the middle of Japan, and everyone’s cool with that; ‘I’m sure they’re friendly now, they won’t trample any of our towns on the way out.’ Compare this to the end of, say, Godzilla 2000; try to imagine a modern Godzilla film where the film actually ends with Godzilla just roaming the countryside, and no one’s worried. The change in attitudes- especially after the last film, where he was practically at his most villainous since the original Gojira- is marked and startling; particularly considering that he is introduced in this very film as a murderous antagonist. That level of transformation- and getting the audience to largely accept it, as even I didn’t question it until several days after watching- over the course of a single film is impressive, and probably one of the most exceptional feats in the writing and direction of this film.

As for Ghidorah himself…

Look, I’ve never made much of a secret of the fact that I despise Ghidorah’s popularity. To me, he’s a big dumb gold tree-stump (feet and tail being merely decorative) with two boring glide wings and three flaily-heads that shoot unintimidating-looking yellow lighting- completely lacking in personality because it’s a prop with random movements. A fine one-off villain, and clearly a bit of a damage-sponge as well… but the ultimate evil? A destroyer of worlds? Godzilla’s arch-nemesis? That’s never worked for me, and I doubt it ever will. I just don’t get the love for him.

In this film, I will admit that he has a very impressive intro. It’s a spectacular scene. Yet after all that buildup with the meteor, and all the ways the Venusian talks him up… he doesn’t do much. Okay, his orange lightning creates some impressive fireballs, but… that’s it. He hovers blowing up a bit of countryside, then runs away because he got web on his face and a few rocks thrown at him. Like, I’m not even a Ghidorah fan, and even I can recognize that this is a truly pathetic amount of damage- less than one percent of what he can endure- to send Ghidorah scurrying. Truthfully, he does little and then flees for no reason… and that only serves to cement his reputation in my mind as all talk. There’s nothing impressive about Ghidorah except the size of fireballs produced by his lightning against buildings. If he can demonstrate that power against kaiju opponents in future installments, perhaps he’ll appear more as a foe to be reckoned with. We shall see.

That said, while Ghidorah as the motivation for all the monsters teaming up was perhaps a bit overplayed compared to what we got, I very much enjoyed seeing the large monster-brawl, especially the interacting tactics of the various ‘good’ kaiju. Likewise, despite some poor film quality/preservation, the cinematography and miniature effects in this film were excellent. Yes, there were many visible wires, but there were also some strong suits (okay, Godzilla’s eyes are a little weird), strong miniatures, and good sets. (Although Infant Island continues to become more and more claustrophobic. How does Mothra even get in and out of that chamber?). The music isn’t particularly stand-out, but it uses all the familiar themes, and works well enough with a theremin-style theme for the mysterious goings on and a fairly strong theme for King Ghidorah.

While the character interactions are not the most compelling that the Showa era has to offer (on par with the generally-forgettable stock character of vs. Kong for the most part), the narrative itself is something very unique, with the ongoing prophecies of doom and slow build to the unleashing of a menace from space played against the story of an amnesiac assassination victim and the people struggling to protect her even as she denies any need for protection (not knowing who she is) and tries to push them past their focus on her to see the bigger picture that she’s trying to warn against. It’s a multi-faceted storyline, and while it spins its wheels a little too much in the middle, it certainly keeps the ongoing story engaging in a way that many of its simpler predecessors don’t. If the characters were as engaging as the plot they’re in, this one would be riveting; as it is, the match of great characters and a great storyline remains maddeningly elusive in the showa era; I think the original Mothra still takes the prize on that one.

Overall, I enjoyed Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster a lot more than I expected, given my disdain for the title monster. This one is a definite template for the later Destroy All Monsters; the first team-up spectacle, which is a logical place to take things after Godzilla has fought all of his biggest ‘name’ foes one-on-one. It’s an escalation that I fear the series can’t sustain, but as it is- and as a climax to this ‘era’ of the series, it works well. Much like Marvels’ Avengers, it ties up the thematic arc that’s been ongoing thus far, simultaneously broadening the palette for a second phase of movies to come in and do something new in a different direction- still connected, but a very different era or entity from their precursors. (Though arguably, Monster Zero/Astro-Monster is still a bit of an outlier, a vestigial holdover in much the way that Iron Man 3 seemed to be for Marvel- one last gasp of the old style that might’ve been better before the climactic turning point. Still, that’s based on decades-old memories of the film; after watching it next week, we’ll see how it measures up to that impression!)

GTTHM is an ambitious film with strong production values and an interesting plot hook. It’s hampered a bit by more buildup than payoff and slightly-dull characters, but if you’re here for the visuals or the fights, you won’t be disappointed, and if you’re here for the story and characters, it is at worst mediocre- still very watchable, and better than some of the entries that have preceded it. Like vs. Kong and even Raids Again, it is a flawed classic, possessing many but not all of the elements needed for true greatness… but still head-and-shoulders above those films that possess none of them.

[ZeppandonConfirmed]

Gave this film a rewatch yesterday, and I personally enjoy it a lot. Although I prefer its successor, Monster Zero, a lot more.

The Pros:
- The Music is very well done. Akira Ifukube usually never disappoints and this was a good OST. Not his best, but it is still a fine soundtrack. Some of my favorites are the Main Theme, Ghidorah's theme, and the ending song.

- The monsters. While some of their designs were alright, they were still cool nonetheless. Godzilla, while a huge downgrade in quality from his design from Mothra vs Godzilla, was still a fine design nonetheless. Rodan looks fine in this film. It's an underrated Rodan suit in my opinion. It's not as good as his 1956 design, but it was still a cool design in my opinion. Mothra, not really much to say because the Mothra Larva is usually the same. Although the red eyes do look cool. I'll get to that other one later.

- The storyline is, in my opinion, one of the best. It really gives this impact that Ghidorah is a terrifying monster who terrorized many stars and planets. It shows that he is a huge threat to the Earth and that he is incredibly powerful. Speaking of which....

- Ghidorah. I am a fan of Ghidorah as a whole. However, the one from the Showa era is hands down my favorite. It's because of the idea they give about Ghidorah that makes me love the Showa version the best. They mention that Ghidorah is, as I said earlier, a threat to all known civilizations. Yeah, the Heisei Ghidorah was an abomination created just like Godzilla, and GMK is a guardian monster who wasn't fully grown yet, but the Showa Ghidorah had destroyed many stars and planets before heading to Earth. He was a huge threat during the 60's. Not only was he s big des, to the Planet X Aliens and the Kilaaks, it took more than one monster to take him down, which made him extremely powerful. That's why I love Ghidorah. And he will always be one of my favorite monsters.

The Cons:
- I can only think of one con in this film, and that's the characters. I didn't like the characters at all. The only ones I really liked were Detective Shindo and the princess. The other characters were either annoying, bland personalities, or were just downright boring.

All in all, I love this movie. It's a classic! While the characters are a huge step back from the last films in my opinion, the pros in my opinion easily outweigh the cons. It's easy to see why this is a fan favorite of the franchise and it's a fun and great film!

[szmigiel]

Praises

• Love the parallel plot between the humans and the Kaiju. They mix well when needed, but remain separate till the last act.
  
  The over all pace of the story, 1st act is character and plot introduction, with Rodan, Godzilla, and then King Ghidorah appearing in the 2nd act, the final act is a nicely handled and has plenty of Kaiju scenes and a nice battle if you don’t mind the break in the middle (see nitpicks later).
  
  Love the build up of investigating the meteor and it’s strange magnetic pull, the mention it is growing in size, and the eventual glowing.
  
  Dividing the Godzilla Vs. Rodan battle into small snippets, I think staying to long on their fight it would have gotten boring. It was already getting silly when Mothra breaks it up.
  
  King Ghidorah emerging from the meteor is still one of the best effects of the Showa franchise.
  
  King Ghidorah gravity beams are some of my favorite effects in the whole franchise. Love the ways they run across the ground causing destruction.
  
  Still love the Shobijin translating the kaiju’s debate, it made them more then just rampaging monsters, something that stuck through at least the rest of the Showa era.

Nitpicks

• Hate the saucer people talk in the very beginning and going back for the explanation of how the Princess surived her fall. We don’t see him interacting with anyone in that scene, it is almost like an aside to the audience.
  
  Malmess is ordered to kill the Princess with royal guards posted right by the doors. Strikes me as odd that you would be so open about murdering another royal.
  
  The Shobijin appearing on a TV just to give us another song and quick look at the Mothra larva that survived. It seemed forced and just a little to convenient to have them around to get involved with the Princess.
  
  King Ghidorah isn’t controlled that well in all scenes, often some of his heads are in odd positions. They do a much better job in the next film
  
  Going back the aerosol breath for Godzilla instead of optical effect because of the rush production
  
  The break in the 3 on 1 match to watch Malmess try to kill the Princess then catch and hug a boulder. It is only 3 minutes but it takes away from the pace of the film since you see about 3 minutes of kaiju battle before and after the scene. if it was cut into two parts and spliced in better with the battle I think it wouldn’t be as jarring.

[eabaker]

The break in the 3 on 1 match to watch Malmess try to kill the Princess then catch and hug a boulder. It is only 3 minutes but it takes away from the pace of the film since you see about 3 minutes of kaiju battle before and after the scene. if it was cut into two parts and spliced in better with the battle I think it wouldn’t be as jarring.[/list]

This is one respect in which many people (myself included) consider the Americanization and improvement, as it intercuts the two sequences more, and gives a better sense of the rock fall being caused by the fight.

[szmigiel]

That part is an improvement, and I don't mind them moving the Ghidorah footage around.

However the two edits;
Godzilla and the boat, where they show him looking a Rodan while dry then cutting back to him still dripping water and destroying the boat.
Then Godzilla coming on land, then cutting to a scene where he was back in the water.

Both those edits are not an improvement.

[Golden Bat]

One thing that's always baffled me...

The Japanese title is San Daikaiju - Three Giant Monsters...

But there is FOUR of them? How did they work that out?

[Ivo-goji]

You weren't supposed to know King Ghidorah would be in this film.

[Golden Bat]

Ah I see!

Trailer and poster must have spoiled that one. And the surprise is spoilt on the DVD even if you watch the Japanese version because they call it Ghidorah the Three Headed Monster!

[UltramanGoji]

One thing that's always baffled me...

The Japanese title is San Daikaiju - Three Giant Monsters...

But there is FOUR of them? How did they work that out?

I always interpreted that as referring to Godzilla, Rodan, and Mothra facing Ghidorah in "The Greatest Battle on Earth".