A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

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szmigiel
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby szmigiel » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:04 pm

Camdigidy wrote:Oh man! I didn't know that. I've never actually seen Gorath. Really want to, though. There no way to explain that away. Guess it's out. Shame, I hear it's one of Honda's better scifi movies.


It is running a few times this month on CometTV, if you don't have it locally you can watch it on Roku or on your computer. Just no DVR or On Demand so you have to watch it live. It is playing June 7th at 2AM EDT and June 10th 12pm EDT

https://www.comettv.com/watch-live/

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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby Camdigidy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:14 pm

Zarm wrote:The question is whether we see any exterior views of the moon in DAM... since the odds of another stellar body of the same hue and crater pattern be exceedingly rare. I would say that would definitely kick things out of Gorath being possibly in continuity.

Even if we don't get a specific to you, the alternate-moon capture or movement theory is a little far-fetched. It did take a lot of Earth's resources just to build the rockets in the Antarctic, the idea that they would first travel to another lunar body around a different planet or in deep space, and then be able to implement the same sort of construction on the same sort of scale over that long distance does seem a bit beyond their technological infrastructure or resources of the era.



That's also a very good argument. If we go by striclty what is given in the movies, then you'd have to exclude it. It would go nicely with Toho's other non kaiju disaster movies like Sinking of Japan (not that I'm saying they're in a continuity.)
But if you're someone that is willing to accept the far fetched idea that the moon was somehow replaced (not necessarily the transported new moon theory), then Gorath could be personally considered to be in continuity.

Bottom line, I'd say you're right, though.

Added in 2 minutes 4 seconds:
szmigiel wrote:
Camdigidy wrote:Oh man! I didn't know that. I've never actually seen Gorath. Really want to, though. There no way to explain that away. Guess it's out. Shame, I hear it's one of Honda's better scifi movies.


It is running a few times this month on CometTV, if you don't have it locally you can watch it on Roku or on your computer. Just no DVR or On Demand so you have to watch it live. It is playing June 7th at 2AM EDT and June 10th 12pm EDT

https://www.comettv.com/watch-live/


Sweet, thanks! I'd like to catch it.
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby Ivo-goji » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:19 pm

They wouldn't have to get a moon from another planet if Gorath's debris trail delivered it for them.
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby Camdigidy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:22 pm

Early Japan: The Three Treasures
1954: Godzilla
1955: Half Human
1955: Godzilla Raids Again
1955: Rodan
1957: The Mysterians (gives humanity space travel by using reverse engineered Mysterian tech)
1958: Varan
1958: The H-Man
1960: The Human Vapour
1961: Mothra
*1961: Frankenstein vs Baragon
1962: King Kong vs Godzilla
1963: Matango
1963: Atragon
1964: Mothra vs Godzilla
1964: Dogorah
*1965: Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster
*1965: Battle in Outer Space
*1966: Invasion of Astro-Monster
1966: Ebirah: Horror of the Deep
1966: War of the Gargantuas
1967: Son of Godzilla
*1967: King Kong Escapes
1969: All Monsters Attack (explained below)
1969: Latitude Zero
1970: Space Amoeba
1971: Godzilla vs Hedorah
1972: Godzilla vs Gigan
1973: Godzilla vs Megalon
1973: Zone Fighter
1974: Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla
1975: Terror of Mechagodzilla
1988: The War in Space
1999: Destroy All Monsters

*1979-1982: Gorath (the moon is somehow replaced). Gorath can only be included in the continuity if you really want it included for completion's sake. If you go strictly on what information is given in the movies, it is too incompatible. People believing Kong is a legend in KKE is one thing, but the destruction of the moon is too big to overlook.

Added in 5 minutes 47 seconds:
Ivo-goji wrote:They wouldn't have to get a moon from another planet if Gorath's debris trail delivered it for them.


Oh right! That's also a good, and more plausible, theory.
But it still relies on too much information that isn't in any of the movies. Gorath might have to stay off to the side to be included or excluded on an individual level. I personally include it, but I also agree with those who dont.
Last edited by Camdigidy on Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby Zarm » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:42 pm

Ivo-goji wrote:They wouldn't have to get a moon from another planet if Gorath's debris trail delivered it for them.


True, but they would still have to fly out to it and attach the rocket motors. Building a massive undertaking on terra firma with an atmosphere and gravity, even in hostile conditions such as the arctic, is very different matter from transporting all those building materials, workers, fuel, etc. up into space to do it on a separate location.

I mean, I'm not saying it's impossible, but the undertaking appears to be very much beyond the heavy lifting and infrastructure capabilities demonstrated. That, combined with the ridiculous odds against another Moon of identical appearance, make this so far-fetched to me that I can't consider it to be plausible, even with the desire to see all of the showing movies in continuity. It just crosses my suspension of disbelief threshold.

But it's a rather minor point in an overall fantastical conversation anyway, so it's not like I'm condemning the very concept. Just saying the practicalities make it unworkable for me, personally. :)

Added in 16 minutes 27 seconds:
Here's something that I wonder if challenges the continuity - landmarks. Tokyo Tower is present in Mothra, Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster, King Kong Escapes, and Godzilla vs Gigan - but I don't believe it is actually destroyed any of those times. Heavily damaged in the last one, but not destroyed. But I do wonder if there are any landmarks that have been destroyed multiple times by multiple different kaiju/natural disasters, and if minimum turnaround time for rebuilding that landmark would alter how close together to movies could be on the timeline.

The only thing of cursory search turns up appearing again after it was destroyed is the Diet building, and that's a gap of eight years, which seems reasonable for rebuilding. But I didn't search any of the disaster films, just kaiju ones.
Last edited by Zarm on Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby Camdigidy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:10 pm

Added in 16 minutes 27 seconds:
Here's something that I wonder if challenges the continuity - landmarks. Tokyo Tower is present in Mothra, Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster, King Kong Escapes, and Godzilla vs Gigan - but I don't believe it is actually destroyed any of those times. Heavily damaged in the last one, but not destroyed. But I do wonder if there are any landmarks that have been destroyed multiple times by multiple different kaiju/natural disasters, and if minimum turnaround time for rebuilding that landmark would alter how close together to movies could be on the timeline.[/quote]

I saw a story of a street in Japan being repaired over a weekend. They work fast. Instead of allowing any more alterations, I'm fine with believing the Japanese are just fast workers.

Added in 28 minutes 22 seconds:
If we're talking about the plausibility of transporting a rogue body or a moon, is there any other technological feat done in the showa series any where close in grandness to moving the earth?
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby MaxRebo320 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:52 pm

Added in 2 minutes 4 seconds:
szmigiel wrote:
Camdigidy wrote:Oh man! I didn't know that. I've never actually seen Gorath. Really want to, though. There no way to explain that away. Guess it's out. Shame, I hear it's one of Honda's better scifi movies.


It is running a few times this month on CometTV, if you don't have it locally you can watch it on Roku or on your computer. Just no DVR or On Demand so you have to watch it live. It is playing June 7th at 2AM EDT and June 10th 12pm EDT

https://www.comettv.com/watch-live/


Sweet, thanks! I'd like to catch it.[/quote]

I'll defend dubs/Americanizations no problem, but even I'll admit the Brenco cut of Gorath (the one airing on TV) is pretty weak, especially in comparison to the Japanese version. It might still be worth watching to compare them, but the Japanese version is definitely the preferable version to watch.
Last edited by MaxRebo320 on Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby Ivo-goji » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:35 pm

Camdigidy wrote:If we're talking about the plausibility of transporting a rogue body or a moon, is there any other technological feat done in the showa series any where close in grandness to moving the earth?

War in Space has them vaporizing the planet Venus with the Ether Bomb.

As far as helping them create a new moon, assuming Gorath did drag a second planetoid behind it, they could have used a series of explosions (not the Ether Bomb itself, but a similar device with a lower-yield) to alter the object's trajectory and reduce its speed as it neared Earth.
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby Camdigidy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:41 pm

Ivo-goji wrote:
Camdigidy wrote:If we're talking about the plausibility of transporting a rogue body or a moon, is there any other technological feat done in the showa series any where close in grandness to moving the earth?

War in Space has them vaporizing the planet Venus with the Ether Bomb.

As far as helping them create a new moon, assuming Gorath did drag a second planetoid behind it, they could have used a series of explosions (not the Ether Bomb itself, but a similar device with a lower-yield) to alter the object's trajectory and reduce its speed as it neared Earth.



Jeez. Lol. War in Space is another I still need to see.

I can see that happening in a showa movie. They never took science or reality too seriously. They would just do it.

Added in 6 minutes :
Now when we see the surface of the moon in DAM, it looks very mountainous and rocky, not how the moon is. What if this is because it's a different, new moon? A hole in this theory would be if people are shown going to the moon prior to Gorath.
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:03 pm

Camdigidy wrote:Added in 6 minutes :
Now when we see the surface of the moon in DAM, it looks very mountainous and rocky, not how the moon is. What if this is because it's a different, new moon? A hole in this theory would be if people are shown going to the moon prior to Gorath.


They do go to the moon in Battle of Outer Space, actually.
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby Camdigidy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:25 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
Camdigidy wrote:Added in 6 minutes :
Now when we see the surface of the moon in DAM, it looks very mountainous and rocky, not how the moon is. What if this is because it's a different, new moon? A hole in this theory would be if people are shown going to the moon prior to Gorath.


They do go to the moon in Battle of Outer Space, actually.


I thought so. Haven't see that in a while. Does the moon look similar to the way it looks in DAM if you remember?
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:28 pm

Camdigidy wrote:
Kaiju-King42 wrote:
Camdigidy wrote:Added in 6 minutes :
Now when we see the surface of the moon in DAM, it looks very mountainous and rocky, not how the moon is. What if this is because it's a different, new moon? A hole in this theory would be if people are shown going to the moon prior to Gorath.


They do go to the moon in Battle of Outer Space, actually.


I thought so. Haven't see that in a while. Does the moon look similar to the way it looks in DAM if you remember?


Unfortunately I don't remember much of anything from Cattle in Outer Space. Not a particularly thrilling movie.

Edit: *Battle (lol I'm keeping that typo)
Last edited by Kaiju-King42 on Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Godzillian wrote:
Godzilla21 wrote:What is up with the American trope of hide the monster?

Jaws happened


ernesth100 wrote:
Ryguy wrote:When the new director is announced, I guarantee this fanbase will be torn through the middle...

We're always split down the middle. TK is like a giant buttcrack.


Anno wrote:never forget tadpole :godzilla:




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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby Ivo-goji » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:15 pm

BIOS moon:
Image
DAM moon:
Image

They're both oddly mountainous.
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby Camdigidy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:36 pm

One could move BiOS some time after Gorath to iron that out and support the "new moon theory", but that goes against what I wanted for this proposed timeline. No moving dates around unless there's evidence in the movies. But of course everyone's free to do whatever they want.
Last edited by Camdigidy on Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby tlyon2 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:45 pm

Battle In Outer Space should come before Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster both events take place in the same month of January of 1965. My proof of the events are the toy models of a natal ship and mother ship seen on someones desk in Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster.

Battle In Outer Space takes place in the 1st half of January (1st-15th) while Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster taking place in the 2nd half of January (16th-31st).

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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby TitanoGoji16 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:49 am

Zarm wrote:Tokyo Tower is present in Mothra, Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster, King Kong Escapes, and Godzilla vs Gigan - but I don't believe it is actually destroyed any of those times.


Mothra literally breaks the Tower in half when cocooning against it.
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby Camdigidy » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:09 am

tlyon2 wrote:Battle In Outer Space should come before Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster both events take place in the same month of January of 1965. My proof of the events are the toy models of a natal ship and mother ship seen on someones desk in Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster.

Battle In Outer Space takes place in the 1st half of January (1st-15th) while Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster taking place in the 2nd half of January (16th-31st).



Ha! I'll have to look for that. Good observation.

Early Japan: The Three Treasures
1954: Godzilla
1955: Half Human
1955: Godzilla Raids Again
1955: Rodan
1957: The Mysterians (gives humanity space travel by using reverse engineered Mysterian tech)
1958: Varan
1958: The H-Man
1960: The Human Vapour
1961: Mothra
*1961: Frankenstein vs Baragon
1962: King Kong vs Godzilla
1963: Matango
1963: Atragon
1964: Mothra vs Godzilla
1964: Dogorah
*1965: Battle in Outer Space
*1965: Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster
*1966: Invasion of Astro-Monster
1966: Ebirah: Horror of the Deep
1966: War of the Gargantuas
1967: Son of Godzilla
*1967: King Kong Escapes
1969: All Monsters Attack (explained below)
1969: Latitude Zero
1970: Space Amoeba
1971: Godzilla vs Hedorah
1972: Godzilla vs Gigan
1973: Godzilla vs Megalon
1973: Zone Fighter
1974: Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla
1975: Terror of Mechagodzilla
1988: The War in Space
1999: Destroy All Monsters

*1979-1982: Gorath (the moon is somehow replaced). Gorath can only be included in the continuity if you really want it included for completion's sake. If you go strictly on what information is given in the movies, it is too incompatible. People believing Kong is a legend in KKE is one thing, but the destruction of the moon is too big to overlook.
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby Zarm » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:47 am

Kaiju-King42 wrote:Unfortunately I don't remember much of anything from Cattle in Outer Space. Not a particularly thrilling movie.

Edit: *Battle (lol I'm keeping that typo)


The lesser-known sequel to the Muppets' 'pigs in space'? :)

Added in 1 minute 49 seconds:
Ivo-goji wrote:(Pics)

They're both oddly mountainous.


Yeah, okay... that is actually pretty convincing as a different moon. My hat's off to you guys; you've convinced me.

Added in 3 minutes 26 seconds:
TitanoGoji16 wrote:
Zarm wrote:Tokyo Tower is present in Mothra, Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster, King Kong Escapes, and Godzilla vs Gigan - but I don't believe it is actually destroyed any of those times.


Mothra literally breaks the Tower in half when cocooning against it.


And that is why I'm not legendary for my excellent memory. :)

Well, 8 years for the Diet Building, 3.5-4 for Tokyo Tower. I suppose, as they've had such practice rebuilding Tokyo in the recent past... and perhaps they prioritize landmarks as cultural icons, a sort of symbolic rejuvination to lift the people's spirits.
Last edited by Zarm on Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby tlyon2 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:56 am

Gorath should be counted in the timeline as both the space station delta and space station terra that shows up in Gorath also appear in Invasion Of The Astro Monster and War In Space respectively.

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Re: A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

Postby mikelcho » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:13 pm

The insurance adjusters in Japan are obviously ve-e-e-e-e-ry busy people.

How else do you explain collecting insurance for "daikaiju damage"?

Godzilla alone must raise the cost of living in Japan every time he appears!

Every. Single. Time. Think about it.
Last edited by mikelcho on Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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