A Proposed Showa Timeline Theory

[Camdigidy]

I, like many others, enjoy theorizing how the timeline in the showa series works. There are some good theories that I like, and I'd like to put forth my own head cannon and see if anyone agrees or has any issues with it.

I feel like all the Toho tokusatsu movies from 1954 to 1977 can be placed in the same continuity with one exemption. And I feel there is no need for any order swapping. Some fan theories move Astro-Monster and Son around. I beleive all the Showa movies take place in the year they were produced unless otherwise stated in the movie.

Early Japan: The Three Treasures
1954: Godzilla
1955: Half Human
1955: Godzilla Raids Again
1955: Rodan
1957: The Mysterians (gives humanity space travel by using reverse engineered Mysterian tech)
1958: Varan
1958: The H-Man
1959: Battle in Outer Space
1960: The Human Vapour
1961: Mothra
1962: King Kong vs Godzilla
1963: Matango
1963: Atragon
1964: Mothra vs Godzilla
1964: Dogorah
1964: Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster (rough year)
1965: Invasion of Astro-Monster
1965: Frankenstein vs Baragon
1966: Ebirah: Horror of the Deep
1966: War of the Gargantuas
1967: Son of Godzilla
1969: All Monsters Attack (explained below)
1969: Latitude Zero
1970: Space Amoeba
1971: Godzilla vs Hedorah
1972: Godzilla vs Gigan
1973: Godzilla vs Megalon
1973: Zone Fighter
1974: Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla
1975: Terror of Mechagodzilla
1982: Gorath
1988: The War in Space
1999: Destroy All Monsters

Exemption: King Kong Escapes. It is stated that Kong has never been seen before. I would like to include it for its introduction of Gorosaurus. But there is a clearly stated contradiction with KKvsG. Can anyone come up with how it could be canonical with the rest of the movies?

As for All Monsters Attack, I propose that it DOES exist in the same continuity as the rest of the Godzilla movies. In Godzilla vs Hedorah, Godzilla toys are shown. This means, to me, that Godzilla has been commercialized and has become loved by the people, including kids. All Monsters Attack is about a fan of Godzilla, but doesn't actually feature the real Godzilla. The Monster Island scenes take place in the mind of a kid who lives in a world with the real Godzilla.

I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks of this proposed timeline. Have I made any mistakes? Is there anything in any of these movies that exclude them from this timeline or change the year they take place?

[Ivo-goji]

Battle in Outer Space takes place in 1965, not its year of release. It probably happens before Monster Zero since the Earth's space travel capabilities improve from landing on the moon to exploring the outer solar system. I'd also push Monster Zero forward one year since it was also supposed to take place '20 minutes into the future' instead of its year of release.

King Kong Escapes actually takes place in a world where people *do* know what Kong is (Commander Nelson has scientific data on him before they reach Mondo Island, Dr. Hu is building a life sized robot in his image, Mia Hama knows who Kong is without needing an explanation), it's just Susan and those reporters at the UN summit who are surprised, for reasons that don't make much sense in the context of the movie itself. So I don't really see an issue with including KKE in the timeline.

[King of the Monsters]

In King Kong Escapes the point is made that no one has ever really seen Kong before, he's perceived as just a legend and Nelson and Dr. Who have both spent years studying and trying to find him. Nelson created anatomical drawings of Kong based on accounts and legends of the creature, and Mechani-Kong was constructed based on these drawings, which Dr. Who had stolen from Nelson. All of this combined with Kong's drastically smaller size makes it apparent that the film was not intended to be a follow-up to King Kong vs. Godzilla.

Not that it matters anyway, because the book Godzilla Dictionary [New Edition] says King Kong Escapes is part of the Showa Godzilla timeline. Obviously an act of retroactive continuity, but still official.

[Camdigidy]

In King Kong Escapes the point is made that no one has ever really seen Kong before, he's perceived as just a legend and Nelson and Dr. Who have both spent years studying and trying to find him. Nelson created anatomical drawings of Kong based on accounts and legends of the creature, and Mechani-Kong was constructed based on these drawings, which Dr. Who had stolen from Nelson. All of this combined with Kong's drastically smaller size makes it apparent that the film was not intended to be a follow-up to King Kong vs. Godzilla.

Not that it matters anyway, because the book Godzilla Dictionary [New Edition] says King Kong Escapes is part of the Showa Godzilla timeline. Obviously an act of retroactive continuity, but still official.

This Kong could be another Kong (younger/different species). If what Ivo-goji^^ says in accurate, than it can be included.

Added in 6 minutes 12 seconds:

Battle in Outer Space takes place in 1965, not its year of release. It probably happens before Monster Zero since the Earth's space travel capabilities improve from landing on the moon to exploring the outer solar system. I'd also push Monster Zero forward one year since it was also supposed to take place '20 minutes into the future' instead of its year of release.

King Kong Escapes actually takes place in a world where people *do* know what Kong is (Commander Nelson has scientific data on him before they reach Mondo Island, Dr. Hu is building a life sized robot in his image, Mia Hama knows who Kong is without needing an explanation), it's just Susan and those reporters at the UN summit who are surprised, for reasons that don't make much sense in the context of the movie itself. So I don't really see an issue with including KKE in the timeline.

Early Japan: The Three Treasures
1954: Godzilla
1955: Half Human
1955: Godzilla Raids Again
1955: Rodan
1957: The Mysterians (gives humanity space travel by using reverse engineered Mysterian tech)
1958: Varan
1958: The H-Man
1960: The Human Vapour
1961: Mothra
1962: King Kong vs Godzilla
1963: Matango
1963: Atragon
1964: Mothra vs Godzilla
1964: Dogorah
1964: Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster (rough year)
*1965: Battle in Outer Space
1965: Invasion of Astro-Monster
1965: Frankenstein vs Baragon
1966: Ebirah: Horror of the Deep
1966: War of the Gargantuas
1967: Son of Godzilla
*1967: King Kong Escapes
1969: All Monsters Attack (explained below)
1969: Latitude Zero
1970: Space Amoeba
1971: Godzilla vs Hedorah
1972: Godzilla vs Gigan
1973: Godzilla vs Megalon
1973: Zone Fighter
1974: Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla
1975: Terror of Mechagodzilla
1982: Gorath
1988: The War in Space
1999: Destroy All Monsters

Why should Monster Zero be pushed to 1966? Does it really state to take place "20 minutes in the future?" I thought it was stated in the movie that it takes place in 196X. So I felt you could plop it anywhere between 65 and 69.

[Ivo-goji]

Monster Zero could occur in 1965, but the logical inference of the 196X date would be to place it a little bit later than its year of release. More so since having it occur less than a year after BIOS puts the Natarl and Xilien invasions awfully close together. Earthlings need time to breath after all.

[King of the Monsters]

The thing is the original intent was clearly for Escapes to be its own thing. This version of Kong is smaller than the 1962 version and is only perceived as a legend. If the events of King Kong vs. Godzilla were taken into account when making the film, even if this was a different Kong, it makes no sense that no one would think of the other giant ape named King Kong that appeared several years prior. It would be just like trying to say Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla follows GMK just because that Godzilla is a "different Godzilla," not taking into account the other discrepancies.

Either way, regardless of the original intent, the argument is moot since sources say Escapes does indeed fit into the Showa Godzilla timeline. I'm not sure what the explanation is, if it's the same Kong and the height difference is a retcon or if it's a different Kong and everyone just conveniently forgot about the Kong that fought Godzilla. Either way, at some point Toho decided that film's events are canon with the Showa Godzilla series. The Showa series uses continuity pretty loosely anyway, so it's not too big of a deal. Mothra's height was substantially reduced between 1961 and 1964, but it's still said to be the same incarnation of Mothra and her debut film is held canon with the Showa Godzilla films. These films were all created as standalone stories, it was only after the fact when Toho started welding them together into a single canon.

[Camdigidy]

Monster Zero could occur in 1965, but the logical inference of the 196X date would be to place it a little bit later than its year of release. More so since having it occur less than a year after BIOS puts the Natarl and Xilien invasions awfully close together. Earthlings need time to breath after all.

Early Japan: The Three Treasures
1954: Godzilla
1955: Half Human
1955: Godzilla Raids Again
1955: Rodan
1957: The Mysterians (gives humanity space travel by using reverse engineered Mysterian tech)
1958: Varan
1958: The H-Man
1960: The Human Vapour
1961: Mothra
1962: King Kong vs Godzilla
1963: Matango
1963: Atragon
1964: Mothra vs Godzilla
1964: Dogorah
1964: Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster (rough year)
*1965: Battle in Outer Space
1965: Frankenstein vs Baragon
1966: Ebirah: Horror of the Deep
1966: War of the Gargantuas
1967: Son of Godzilla
*1967: King Kong Escapes
1969: All Monsters Attack (explained below)
1969: Latitude Zero
*196X: Invasion of Astro-Monster
1970: Space Amoeba
1971: Godzilla vs Hedorah
1972: Godzilla vs Gigan
1973: Godzilla vs Megalon
1973: Zone Fighter
1974: Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla
1975: Terror of Mechagodzilla
1982: Gorath
1988: The War in Space
1999: Destroy All Monsters

As much as the purpose of this thread is to pinpoint years within a continuity, Monster Zero seems to be free to fit anywhere between 1965 and 1969 with years closer to 69 seeming more likely.

[Ivo-goji]

Monster Zero would presumably occur prior to Son of Godzilla, since after that film Godzilla lives on Monster Island with Minilla, rather than hibernating in a lake in Japan.

[Camdigidy]

Monster Zero would presumably occur prior to Son of Godzilla, since after that film Godzilla lives on Monster Island with Minilla, rather than hibernating in a lake in Japan.

That's a very good point. Nice observation. I would dare to go one step further back and propose MZ takes place in 1966 just before Ebirah and after FvsB. Since Son and Ebirah both take place in the South Pacific and only one year apart, it makes sense that Son takes place right after Ebirah.
And you stated that humanity would need some recovery time after BiOS in 1965.


Early Japan: The Three Treasures
1954: Godzilla
1955: Half Human
1955: Godzilla Raids Again
1955: Rodan
1957: The Mysterians (gives humanity space travel by using reverse engineered Mysterian tech)
1958: Varan
1958: The H-Man
1960: The Human Vapour
1961: Mothra
1962: King Kong vs Godzilla
1963: Matango
1963: Atragon
1964: Mothra vs Godzilla
1964: Dogorah
1964: Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster
*1965: Battle in Outer Space
1965: Frankenstein vs Baragon
*1966: Invasion of Astro-Monster
1966: Ebirah: Horror of the Deep
1966: War of the Gargantuas
1967: Son of Godzilla
*1967: King Kong Escapes
1969: All Monsters Attack (explained below)
1969: Latitude Zero
1970: Space Amoeba
1971: Godzilla vs Hedorah
1972: Godzilla vs Gigan
1973: Godzilla vs Megalon
1973: Zone Fighter
1974: Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla
1975: Terror of Mechagodzilla
1982: Gorath
1988: The War in Space
1999: Destroy All Monsters

[MaxRebo320]

Ghidorah is said to b set in January. The year isn’t specified, but since it was released in December of ‘64, a January ‘65 setting would be the most logical place to put it.

FCTW’s exact date is a bit ambiogus, but the scene with Bowen visiting the sick girl is set 15 years after the prologue (set in 1945), therefore making it 1960. Some time later, Bowen and Sueko claim it to be the anniversary of her death. It’s not stated how long it’s been, but since Frankenstein appears to be pretty young the two times they meet him before captivity, it’s safe to place it in 1961.

As for KKE, I’ve always liked the theory that it’s set sometime in the future (Perhaps the mid - late 80s), where Kong, having only appeared once, has become somewhat of a legend. Susan not knowing of him could simply be down to her not having been born when he appeared in Japan. The Kong in it is probably a different Kong, maybe even the son of the original or something.

[TitanoGoji16]

As far as the Kong discrepancy (people thinking Kong was a legend despite King Kong vs. Godzilla having already happened) goes, it could just be an oddly specific case of Japan's early giant monster denial - Japan had already been ravaged by Godzilla, the Rodans, Varan, Mothra, etc., but scientists still laughed at Dr. Mafune when he had said he discovered Titanosaurus, or when Kawai suggested that Baragon existed.

I mean, heck, people didn't believe Goro Maki when he said he'd seen a girl.

[Camdigidy]

Ghidorah is said to b set in January. The year isn’t specified, but since it was released in December of ‘64, a January ‘65 setting would be the most logical place to put it.

FCTW’s exact date is a bit ambiogus, but the scene with Bowen visiting the sick girl is set 15 years after the prologue (set in 1945), therefore making it 1960. Some time later, Bowen and Sueko claim it to be the anniversary of her death. It’s not stated how long it’s been, but since Frankenstein appears to be pretty young the two times they meet him before captivity, it’s safe to place it in 1961.

As for KKE, I’ve always liked the theory that it’s set sometime in the future (Perhaps the mid - late 80s), where Kong, having only appeared once, has become somewhat of a legend. Susan not knowing of him could simply be down to her not having been born when he appeared in Japan. The Kong in it is probably a different Kong, maybe even the son of the original or something.

Early Japan: The Three Treasures
1954: Godzilla
1955: Half Human
1955: Godzilla Raids Again
1955: Rodan
1957: The Mysterians (gives humanity space travel by using reverse engineered Mysterian tech)
1958: Varan
1958: The H-Man
1960: The Human Vapour
1961: Mothra
1962: King Kong vs Godzilla
1963: Matango
1963: Atragon
1964: Mothra vs Godzilla
1964: Dogorah
*1965: Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster
*1965: Battle in Outer Space
1965: Frankenstein vs Baragon
*1966: Invasion of Astro-Monster
1966: Ebirah: Horror of the Deep
1966: War of the Gargantuas
1967: Son of Godzilla
*1967: King Kong Escapes
1969: All Monsters Attack (explained below)
1969: Latitude Zero
1970: Space Amoeba
1971: Godzilla vs Hedorah
1972: Godzilla vs Gigan
1973: Godzilla vs Megalon
1973: Zone Fighter
1974: Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla
1975: Terror of Mechagodzilla
1982: Gorath
1988: The War in Space
1999: Destroy All Monsters

You have a good point about FCtW. It makes sense, but it's odd for the movie to be set only a few years in the past. I cant think many other movie that do that except ones that depict real events. Is there a reason FCtW CAN'T be set in 65? It's been a little while since I've seen it.

Added in 2 hours 5 minutes 25 seconds:

As far as the Kong discrepancy (people thinking Kong was a legend despite King Kong vs. Godzilla having already happened) goes, it could just be an oddly specific case of Japan's early giant monster denial - Japan had already been ravaged by Godzilla, the Rodans, Varan, Mothra, etc., but scientists still laughed at Dr. Mafune when he had said he discovered Titanosaurus, or when Kawai suggested that Baragon existed.

I mean, heck, people didn't believe Goro Maki when he said he'd seen a girl.

There's a whole new theory right there. Would there be kaiju deniers that claim these kaiju attacks are hoaxes that use crisis actors?

[MaxRebo320]

You have a good point about FCtW. It makes sense, but it's odd for the movie to be set only a few years in the past. I cant think many other movie that do that except ones that depict real events. Is there a reason FCtW CAN'T be set in 65? It's been a little while since I've seen it.

Aside from my aforementioned post, the scene where Bowen and Sueko are dining together and witness the young Frankie being struck by a car is set in 1960. The next time they meet Frankenstein is AFTER Bowen brings up the anniversary of the girl's death, and Frankie doesn't appear to be a whole lot older, which would suggest only a year has passed.

And also, its stated in WOTG that Sanda was raised by Stewart and Akemi several years prior to the events of the film (5 years in the UPA version, not sure about the others). There only being a year gap between FCTW and WOTG would make that pretty hard to fit.

[Camdigidy]

You have a good point about FCtW. It makes sense, but it's odd for the movie to be set only a few years in the past. I cant think many other movie that do that except ones that depict real events. Is there a reason FCtW CAN'T be set in 65? It's been a little while since I've seen it.

Aside from my aforementioned post, the scene where Bowen and Sueko are dining together and witness the young Frankie being struck by a car is set in 1960. The next time they meet Frankenstein is AFTER Bowen brings up the anniversary of the girl's death, and Frankie doesn't appear to be a whole lot older, which would suggest only a year has passed.

And also, its stated in WOTG that Sanda was raised by Stewart and Akemi several years prior to the events of the film (5 years in the UPA version, not sure about the others). There only being a year gap between FCTW and WOTG would make that pretty hard to fit.

Alright then. Sounds pretty solid to me.


Early Japan: The Three Treasures
1954: Godzilla
1955: Half Human
1955: Godzilla Raids Again
1955: Rodan
1957: The Mysterians (gives humanity space travel by using reverse engineered Mysterian tech)
1958: Varan
1958: The H-Man
1960: The Human Vapour
1961: Mothra
*1961: Frankenstein vs Baragon
1962: King Kong vs Godzilla
1963: Matango
1963: Atragon
1964: Mothra vs Godzilla
1964: Dogorah
*1965: Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster
*1965: Battle in Outer Space
*1966: Invasion of Astro-Monster
1966: Ebirah: Horror of the Deep
1966: War of the Gargantuas
1967: Son of Godzilla
*1967: King Kong Escapes
1969: All Monsters Attack (explained below)
1969: Latitude Zero
1970: Space Amoeba
1971: Godzilla vs Hedorah
1972: Godzilla vs Gigan
1973: Godzilla vs Megalon
1973: Zone Fighter
1974: Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla
1975: Terror of Mechagodzilla
1982: Gorath
1988: The War in Space
1999: Destroy All Monsters

Anyone else have any more possible changes or additions?

[szmigiel]

The start of Gorath is 1979, although the movie takes place over a long period of time so what year it was at the end of the movie was probably 1980 or 1981. But the moon is destroyed during the climax so not sure how there could be a Moonbase in Destroy All Monsters.

[Spuro]

Let's not forget the whole issue of the moon being destroyed in Gorath, but later returning in Destroy All Monsters. I think if we have to point to any film being non-canon, that would be the one.

On the issue of King Kong Escapes... here's a crazy idea. Is there anything in the film that would contridict the theory that it's set in the late 1950s or early 1960s, *before* the events of King Kong vs Godzilla? Sure, Mechani-Kong and the floating car are pretty high-tech, but humanity had Alpha and Beta as early as the Mysterians, if they weren't constructed a few years before.

[Ivo-goji]

Since Gorath depicts humanity having planet-moving rockets, I don't see why they couldn't move a new moon into orbit around the Earth. Maybe there was a Luna-like object caught in Gorath's debris trail; to prevent another collision without moving the Earth out of the way again, they slowed Luna II's motion until it fell into the original moon's place.

[MaxRebo320]

Since Gorath depicts humanity having planet-moving rockets, I don't see why they couldn't move a new moon into orbit around the Earth. Maybe there was a Luna-like object caught in Gorath's debris trail; to prevent another collision without moving the Earth out of the way again, they slowed Luna II's motion until it fell into the original moon's place.

I always felt that was the case. After all, even if the moon isn't seen in War in Space (set in 1988), there's still an 11 year gap. Plenty could have happened. Hell, maybe Earth made a deal with Planet X (With Glenn as their ambassador) to have one of Jupiter's moons in exchange for water.

The films most likely were not intended to be within the same continuity, but its fun to discuss the possibility of it as long as you don't take it too seriously and realize it wasn't Toho's intent.

[Camdigidy]

The start of Gorath is 1979, although the movie takes place over a long period of time so what year it was at the end of the movie was probably 1980 or 1981. But the moon is destroyed during the climax so not sure how there could be a Moonbase in Destroy All Monsters.

Oh man! I didn't know that. I've never actually seen Gorath. Really want to, though. There no way to explain that away. Guess it's out. Shame, I hear it's one of Honda's better scifi movies.

Early Japan: The Three Treasures
1954: Godzilla
1955: Half Human
1955: Godzilla Raids Again
1955: Rodan
1957: The Mysterians (gives humanity space travel by using reverse engineered Mysterian tech)
1958: Varan
1958: The H-Man
1960: The Human Vapour
1961: Mothra
*1961: Frankenstein vs Baragon
1962: King Kong vs Godzilla
1963: Matango
1963: Atragon
1964: Mothra vs Godzilla
1964: Dogorah
*1965: Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster
*1965: Battle in Outer Space
*1966: Invasion of Astro-Monster
1966: Ebirah: Horror of the Deep
1966: War of the Gargantuas
1967: Son of Godzilla
*1967: King Kong Escapes
1969: All Monsters Attack (explained below)
1969: Latitude Zero
1970: Space Amoeba
1971: Godzilla vs Hedorah
1972: Godzilla vs Gigan
1973: Godzilla vs Megalon
1973: Zone Fighter
1974: Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla
1975: Terror of Mechagodzilla
1988: The War in Space
1999: Destroy All Monsters

*Not included: Gorath (due to the destruction of the moon)

Added in 1 minute 38 seconds:
Does anyone know roughly when The Three Treasures takes place? That's one I regretfully haven't seen.

Added in 4 minutes 48 seconds:

Since Gorath depicts humanity having planet-moving rockets, I don't see why they couldn't move a new moon into orbit around the Earth. Maybe there was a Luna-like object caught in Gorath's debris trail; to prevent another collision without moving the Earth out of the way again, they slowed Luna II's motion until it fell into the original moon's place.

I always felt that was the case. After all, even if the moon isn't seen in War in Space (set in 1988), there's still an 11 year gap. Plenty could have happened. Hell, maybe Earth made a deal with Planet X (With Glenn as their ambassador) to have one of Jupiter's moons in exchange for water.

The films most likely were not intended to be within the same continuity, but its fun to discuss the possibility of it as long as you don't take it too seriously and realize it wasn't Toho's intent.

That's such an awesome idea! I imagine a political/ disaster drama where Glenn needs to convince the Xians to give Earth a moon while the Earth suffers from tidal catastrophe. And the changes to the tides release a kaiju or something.

Added in 11 minutes 44 seconds:

Since Gorath depicts humanity having planet-moving rockets, I don't see why they couldn't move a new moon into orbit around the Earth. Maybe there was a Luna-like object caught in Gorath's debris trail; to prevent another collision without moving the Earth out of the way again, they slowed Luna II's motion until it fell into the original moon's place.

That's a great theory!
Since the Showa's loose continuity is something we all sort of accept, we could throw Gorath back in. I wanted to base this continuity of what is official and in the movies while being inclusive as possible within reason.
If we accept the loose continuity and assume SOMETHING happened, we could put it back in.

Added in 3 minutes 58 seconds:
Early Japan: The Three Treasures
1954: Godzilla
1955: Half Human
1955: Godzilla Raids Again
1955: Rodan
1957: The Mysterians (gives humanity space travel by using reverse engineered Mysterian tech)
1958: Varan
1958: The H-Man
1960: The Human Vapour
1961: Mothra
*1961: Frankenstein vs Baragon
1962: King Kong vs Godzilla
1963: Matango
1963: Atragon
1964: Mothra vs Godzilla
1964: Dogorah
*1965: Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster
*1965: Battle in Outer Space
*1966: Invasion of Astro-Monster
1966: Ebirah: Horror of the Deep
1966: War of the Gargantuas
1967: Son of Godzilla
*1967: King Kong Escapes
1969: All Monsters Attack (explained below)
1969: Latitude Zero
1970: Space Amoeba
1971: Godzilla vs Hedorah
1972: Godzilla vs Gigan
1973: Godzilla vs Megalon
1973: Zone Fighter
1974: Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla
1975: Terror of Mechagodzilla
*1979-1982: Gorath (the moon is somehow replaced)
1988: The War in Space
1999: Destroy All Monsters

[Zarm]

The question is whether we see any exterior views of the moon in DAM... since the odds of another stellar body of the same hue and crater pattern be exceedingly rare. I would say that would definitely kick things out of Gorath being possibly in continuity.

Even if we don't get a specific to you, the alternate-moon capture or movement theory is a little far-fetched. It did take a lot of Earth's resources just to build the rockets in the Antarctic, the idea that they would first travel to another lunar body around a different planet or in deep space, and then be able to implement the same sort of construction on the same sort of scale over that long distance does seem a bit beyond their technological infrastructure or resources of the era.