Say something negative about the Showa series

[LegendZilla]

Hey guys, LegendZilla here with another thread. As we all know it's become a time honored tradition in this fandom to use the Heisei series as a punching bag for our nitpicks and over time it's gotten really tiresome. So to balance things out, I thought I'd create a thread dedicated to what complaints you have about the oh-so perfect and flawless series of films that started it all, the Showa series. Hopefully this thread can expose as many double standards as possible.

Mine are :

For all the endless bitching and moaning there is over not being able to connect the dots of the Heisei timeline, may I remind you that the Showa’s own continuity is quite convoluted in its own right. I could make an entire thread about how various Showa films contradict one another, bit for now I will not state the specific reasons

The overusage of stock footage in the late 1960’s and early 70’s.

Campiness found all across the Showa series whether it be Godzilla dancing, flying, doing Kung-fu or acting like King Kong.

That’s all I can think of for now.

[GigaBowserG]

Some of the more overused Godzilla suits were beginning to fall apart on camera. Not a huge negative, but it can be distracting sometimes. Also, some of the puppets used in the early movies don't hold up very well.

[Ivo-goji]

Repeat 1000 times.

[AbelCesar]

Campiness found all across the Showa series whether it be Godzilla dancing, flying, doing Kung-fu or acting like King Kong.

I don't think those elements can qualify as "camp" so much as straight out comedy. If we're to delve into the term's most commonly accepted definitions, then Tokusatsu as a whole may be considered camp, regardless of the tone in each individual film. In Notes on "Camp", Susan Sontag specifies "There is Camp in such bad movies as The Prodigal and Samson and Delilah, the series of Italian color spectacles featuring the super-hero Maciste, numerous Japanese science fiction films (Rodan, The Mysterians, The H-Man) because, in their relative unpretentiousness and vulgarity, they are more extreme and irresponsible in their fantasy - and therefore touching and quite enjoyable."

[Mr_Goji_and_Watch]

It set the bar too high for the following era and series.

[KaijuCanuck]

Stock footage. I understand why they did it, but it’s always disappointing and immersion breaking when you see it.

[Zarm]

Stock footage.

Over-use of King Ghidorah (though sometimes, that was probably to complement the stock footage.)

Honestly... a lot of the rest are matters of personal taste. The era doesn't grab me as much... but it has relatively few actual flaws in production or construction that I can think of.

[edgaguirus]

The only one I have is the voice of Minya in AMA.

[KaijuCanuck]

Really haphazard continuity. Although in fairness to them, I don’t think continuity was cared about in quite the same way by audiences back then.

[MaxRebo320]

Really haphazard continuity. Although in fairness to them, I don’t think continuity was cared about in quite the same way by audiences back then.

Like what? If you're just going by the Godzilla movies (And not counting Toho's other Kaiju/SFX films that may or may not be canon), I cannot think of any instances where the continuity between films is haphazard. They just follow a very episodic format.

[KaijuCanuck]

Really haphazard continuity. Although in fairness to them, I don’t think continuity was cared about in quite the same way by audiences back then.

Like what? If you're just going by the Godzilla movies (And not counting Toho's other Kaiju/SFX films that may or may not be canon), I cannot think of any instances where the continuity between films is haphazard. They just follow a very episodic format.

Like, there just wasn’t a ton of planning to make things cohesive. For example, Rodan never mentions Godzilla’s attack on Tokyo, which you’d think would come up. Just stuff like that.

[Zarm]

There's the whole Monster Island thing, Earth's technology level going from contemporary to interstellar travel and advanced space-age weaponry, then seemingly reverting back to contemporary Earth technology levels, Minilla just disappearing after Godzilla's Revenge, Anguirus suddenly appearing at the same time... pretty sure there are other examples within the Godzilla series itself, but those are the only ones I recall off the top of my head. Personally, I prefer to think of the whole thing as a continuity anyway, but I do remember there being a few elements that make it fairly hard to do so.

[KillCrites]

I guess the stock footage in later films is my only real complaint I can think of. Overall the Showa series is really solid and easily the best era for Godzilla movies.

[KaijuCanuck]

I guess the stock footage in later films is my only real complaint I can think of. Overall the Showa series is really solid and easily the best era for Godzilla movies.

Stock footage and continuity issues aside, I would agree. There’s quite a lot I like in later eras, but for me the showa era is definitely the golden age.

There's the whole Monster Island thing, Earth's technology level going from contemporary to interstellar travel and advanced space-age weaponry, then seemingly reverting back to contemporary Earth technology levels, Minilla just disappearing after Godzilla's Revenge, Anguirus suddenly appearing at the same time... pretty sure there are other examples within the Godzilla series itself, but those are the only ones I recall off the top of my head. Personally, I prefer to think of the whole thing as a continuity anyway, but I do remember there being a few elements that make it fairly hard to do so.

Yeah, there’s quite a few holes you can poke when you sit down and really think about it. I do think it was the filmmakers intentions to have them all as one continuity, it they just didn’t have the same culture back then of worrying about it too much. It’s kind of like the James Bond films of the same era. How is this guy never aging?

[MaxRebo320]

Like, there just wasn’t a ton of planning to make things cohesive. For example, Rodan never mentions Godzilla’s attack on Tokyo, which you’d think would come up. Just stuff like that.

Well, Rodan was only retroactively integrated into canon after his appearance in Ghidorah, though I do suppose it did create a minor plothole in the process. But just because nobody brings it up doesn't mean it didn't happen. I guess there just wasn't much of a reason to do so.

Earth's technology level going from contemporary to interstellar travel and advanced space-age weaponry, then seemingly reverting back to contemporary Earth technology levels

Well, never mind the fact that DAM is set at the end of the 20th century, while the films made afterward are assumed to be set before it. It's never made abundantly clear in the films, but most, if not all publications place them before it.

It’s kind of like the James Bond films of the same era. How is this guy never aging?

If you wanna get technical here, Bond actually DOES age fairly cohesively from 1962 to 1985 (As Connery and Moore were around the same age). It's after that where things get muddled, but I personally like to consider the Dalton/Brosnan films a separate continuity (Though one where a lot of the events in the classic films still took place, only in a different decade). I'm all about facts!

[Zarm]

Earth's technology level going from contemporary to interstellar travel and advanced space-age weaponry, then seemingly reverting back to contemporary Earth technology levels

Well, never mind the fact that DAM is set at the end of the 20th century, while the films made afterward are assumed to be set before it. It's never made abundantly clear in the films, but most, if not all publications place them before it.

I was thinking more of the Monster Zero stuff. Plus weather control tech in SoG and various maser weapons... and then, in the 70s post-DAM films (and admittedly, that's, like, 70% of the continuity issues there, in those last 5 films) seem to regress back to modern-day technology (or at least, no mention of what they had in the 60s, particularly any maser weaponry or the like when they're trying to fight Hedorah), then back up to the space age by DAM.

I mean, don't get me wrong- I'm an advocate for the showa era being a continuity (at least the G-films), and these things in no way bother me greatly. I was merely offering evidenciary support to KaijuCanuck's assertion.

If you wanna get technical here, Bond actually DOES age fairly cohesively from 1962 to 1985 (As Connery and Moore were around the same age). It's after that where things get muddled, but I personally like to consider the Dalton/Brosnan films a separate continuity (Though one where a lot of the events in the classic films still took place, only in a different decade). I'm all about facts!

Bond continuity is the strangest continuity of all. I mean, there are strong indications that Connery's films happened to Lazenby, so he's the same guy? But then moore's era acts more like a reboot, with SPECTRE and the like dropping out entirely (never mind the real-life reasons). And then it seems to soft-reboot with Dalton (and hard-reboot with Craig), but Brosnan is still a 'relic of the cold war' and seems to have Bond's history despite not having the requisite age? Plus, Q continues to age consecutively throughout, while Moneypenny and M join in the soft reboot...

It is the most conceptual, 'don't-think-about-it-too-hard' version of continuity ever maintained. It's like... 'general gist' continuity. It's closest to comic books' sliding timescale, really- except it's tied to real-world politics and cutting-edge technological developments, so it's a lot harder to fudge the timescale in the imagination.

Added in 2 minutes 19 seconds:

Like, there just wasn’t a ton of planning to make things cohesive. For example, Rodan never mentions Godzilla’s attack on Tokyo, which you’d think would come up. Just stuff like that.

Well, Rodan was only retroactively integrated into canon after his appearance in Ghidorah, though I do suppose it did create a minor plothole in the process. But just because nobody brings it up doesn't mean it didn't happen. I guess there just wasn't much of a reason to do so.

Actually, I kinda always figured that Rodan and Mothra used Bond-style continuity (or 'Kiryu saga continuity')- essentially 'something LIKE that happened in this timeline, but not these exact events that you see in the movie.' That's always how I reckon those two films... not exactly in the Godzilla continuity, but sort of conceptual guides to the broad strokes of something that did happen in the Godzilla timeline.

[UltramanGoji]

The only thing I can really think of is puppet shots in the earlier films. They almost always look terrible and I'm thankful they were phased out in later films.

Stock footage never really bothered me, aside from the obvious Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster shots in Godzilla vs. Gigan.

[Ivo-goji]

Mothra actually *did* mention that other monsters had appeared before Mothra.

Mothra also re-introduced the Atomic Heat Cannons first seen in Battle in Outer Space, and the Showa series stuck with BIOS-type advanced technology after that point; Artificial Lightning weapons in MvsG, the A-Cycle Light Gun and P-1 spacecraft in Monster Zero, Masers in later films, Jet Jaguar, and so on.

Perceived inconsistencies by omission fall squarely under the Law of Conservation of Detail. The films only have to give us enough information to understand what's going on within each film- which is what they do.

[Camdigidy]

There's the whole Monster Island thing, Earth's technology level going from contemporary to interstellar travel and advanced space-age weaponry, then seemingly reverting back to contemporary Earth technology levels, Minilla just disappearing after Godzilla's Revenge, Anguirus suddenly appearing at the same time... pretty sure there are other examples within the Godzilla series itself, but those are the only ones I recall off the top of my head. Personally, I prefer to think of the whole thing as a continuity anyway, but I do remember there being a few elements that make it fairly hard to do so.

I had thought that the drop in technology was due to Japan's economical depression in the 70s. They couldn't keep the advanced tech up and running.

[Mr_Goji_and_Watch]

The only thing I can really think of is puppet shots in the earlier films. They almost always look terrible and I'm thankful they were phased out in later films.

Stock footage never really bothered me, aside from the obvious Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster shots in Godzilla vs. Gigan.

God knows why Tsuburaya was so adamant in using those puppets. KKvG and Ghidrah would be much better off without them.