Monster Discussion #14: Black Moth

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

Like, whatever!


Sorry I had to!

[Gothicserpent]

Like, whatever!


Sorry I had to!

What

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

It's a Toho Kingdom Toons thing.

[Terasawa]

This is Toho's all-time worst monster costume.

And official name or not, I will never be able to call it "Black Moth." I know how that came to be but boy is it ever stupid. I can understand not calling it "Griffon" (the same reason『デストロイア』isn't "Destroyer") but I see no reason why "Kroiga" couldn't be the trademarked name. It's sorta the character's name anyway.

[Zarm]

At least something good came of this. That naming article was pretty interesting.

[King of the Monsters]

Honestly none of the Toho-approved reference books I have call it "Black Moth" in English, they all use either "Griffon," "Griffin," or "Gryphon." They also use two different possible spellings of "Griffon" in katakana for the Japanese name, グリホン or グリフォン, with seemingly no consistency from book to book.

Also worth noting is that Malic calls the creature a griffin in the film itself. He says, and I quote, "Kroiga was a fool as a woman. Is she also a fool as a griffin? Why doesn't she attack?"

[Gothicserpent]

Tbh Black Moth is the better name.

[Terasawa]

Tbh Black Moth is the better name.

If that's what you prefer then that's your opinion, but better?

The creature is neither black nor a moth. It's the fusion of the brain of the woman Kroiga in the body of a lion with condor's wings surgically attached, then magnified to giant size. "Kroiga" is a sensible name because of the creature's brain; "Griffon" (or some alternate spelling) works too since the monster resembles the mythical creature of that name. As King of the Monsters pointed out, Malic, who created the monster, refers to it both as Kroiga and a griffon.

I'll concede that "Griffon" isn't the most exciting or unique of names, but that's what it is. "Black Moth," while certainly unique, doesn't describe the character. It almost has to be a misunderstanding on the part of the translator. It would be like calling Ishiro Honda "Fourth Son in the Year of the Boar Honda." In other words it's a literal translation of something (a name) that was meant to be transliterated, not translated.

[Zarm]

Wait, that's not what you call Fourth Son when you're talking about him...?

That's an excellent point.

[Gothicserpent]

Black Moth is just a better name then Griffon.

[UltramanGoji]

Black Moth is just a better name then Griffon.

Not really.

[Gothicserpent]

Black Moth is just a better name then Griffon.

Not really.

Its a lot more unique and distinct then "Griffon".

[King of the Monsters]

Its a lot more unique and distinct then "Griffon".

And "Giant Devilfish" is a more unique and distinct name for the Giant Octopus, but it doesn't describe it at all and doesn't fit it. It's certainly more fitting than "Black Moth" for the Griffon though. I don't agree that the name being more unique makes it a better name. The creature is a Griffon, and "Black Moth" is just a really idiotic translation of Kuroiga, and I don't think it fits it in any way. But, different strokes for different folks I guess.

[Gigantis]

So, why did they name her Black Moth? Comment above says that it was an English translation of Kroiga, but how did they find that out?

Anyway, i do quite like her. There's not nearly enough big cat kaiju and she has a neat design and tragic origin.... too bad she barely does anything though.

[Terasawa]

Comment above says that it was an English translation of Kroiga, but how did they find that out?

Wikizilla:

The Griffon's name comes from the mythological beast known as the griffin, an eagle-lion hybrid. In Latitude Zero, she is consistently called Kroiga (黒い蛾 Kuroiga), the name of the Black Shark captain whose brain was used for the monster's creation, though the creature is referred to as a "griffon" at one point by its creator, Malic. Toho International eventually decided upon Black Moth as the monster's international English name, the literal translation of Kuroiga; the combination of kuroi (黒い), meaning black, and ga (蛾), meaning moth. However, in Japan, the monster is almost always referred to as Griffon (グリホン Gurihon).[6] Japanese sources usually either give the monster's English name as Griffon[2][7] or Griffin,[8] the latter spelling also used in the subtitles for the Tokyo Shock DVD release of the film.

I'd guess the "Black Moth" name came about as a misunderstanding. "Kuroiga" is a name, and even though it's written in kanji, you don't translate names into English, you transliterate them.

[Gigantis]

I'd guess the "Black Moth" name came about as a misunderstanding. "Kuroiga" is a name, and even though it's written in kanji, you don't translate names into English, you transliterate them.

Wow. That was dumb of the translators, you'd think that maybe they'd be more educated about this kinda thing.

[Terasawa]

I'd guess the "Black Moth" name came about as a misunderstanding. "Kuroiga" is a name, and even though it's written in kanji, you don't translate names into English, you transliterate them.

Wow. That was dumb of the translators, you'd think that maybe they'd be more educated about this kinda thing.

I don't know how Toho's international department worked but I wonder if whoever translated the name for trademark purposes simply didn't know any better. If you have the characters for "black moth" but didn't know it was the proper name (let alone for a griffon), then "black moth" would be the safest and most logical translation.

If that's what happened then it's incredibly dumb that it's apparently never been corrected.

[Voyager]

The costume is absolute dog poop.

I haven't seen Latitude Zero so I wouldn't know how it is in the movie.

[eabaker]

I'd guess the "Black Moth" name came about as a misunderstanding. "Kuroiga" is a name, and even though it's written in kanji, you don't translate names into English, you transliterate them.

Wow. That was dumb of the translators, you'd think that maybe they'd be more educated about this kinda thing.

I don't know how Toho's international department worked but I wonder if whoever translated the name for trademark purposes simply didn't know any better. If you have the characters for "black moth" but didn't know it was the proper name (let alone for a griffon), then "black moth" would be the safest and most logical translation.

If that's what happened then it's incredibly dumb that it's apparently never been corrected.

It might be worth noting that this wasn't too long after Toho's translators decided that Kumonga and Kamakiras should be translated, rather than transliterated, to produce the names "Spiga" and "Gimantis."