Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

[Chrispy_G]

I've tried to structure my Blu Ray/DVD Godzilla collection to largely be JUST Godzilla films, with a select few other films that seem to directly relate or tie into the continuity.

For example, stuff like King Kong Escapes, Varan, Frankenstein Conquers the World...I have no interest in. Outside of essentially cameo appearances from some of those monsters in Destroy All Monsters...there is no kind of link whatsoever.

The only non-Godzilla Kaiju films I purchased were Mothra and the Rodan/War of the Gargantuas double pack. Mothra 'feels' legitimately canon and connected to Mothra vs Godzilla. It is also in the canon of the 'Kiryu Saga' in a very direct way. So it is worth owning because it occupies the Showa and Kiryu continuity.

War of the Gargantuas marks the debut of the Maser Cannon, so there is Showa relevance there, and it also definitively occurs in the Kiryu continuity as well. So like Mothra, it belongs definitively to one Kaiju timeline, and has a great argument for being included in the Showa era...so worth owning/including in marathons for me.

Rodan is the solo debut of the character prior to appearing in a Godzilla film. He is 'resurrected' at Mnt. Aso where the 2 Rodans died in the solo film...there seems to be a general familiarity with the name/creature from the masses.

Plus Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster works so well as a big, exciting crossover when you actually have 3 characters that have all had solo films coming together. Godzilla, Mothra, and Rodan fighting the new threat of Ghidorah....as opposed to "Godzilla, Mothra, and a new monster fighting the new threat of Ghidorah"

[Goji]

Hold on a second, are you seriously telling us that your Toho tokusatsu home video purchases only revolve on whether or not they have any connection to the Godzilla series...?

Ookaaaay..

[GalacticPetey]

I've tried to structure my Blu Ray/DVD Godzilla collection to largely be JUST Godzilla films, with a select few other films that seem to directly relate or tie into the continuity.

For example, stuff like King Kong Escapes, Varan, Frankenstein Conquers the World...I have no interest in. Outside of essentially cameo appearances from some of those monsters in Destroy All Monsters...there is no kind of link whatsoever.

The only non-Godzilla Kaiju films I purchased were Mothra and the Rodan/War of the Gargantuas double pack. Mothra 'feels' legitimately canon and connected to Mothra vs Godzilla. It is also in the canon of the 'Kiryu Saga' in a very direct way. So it is worth owning because it occupies the Showa and Kiryu continuity.

War of the Gargantuas marks the debut of the Maser Cannon, so there is Showa relevance there, and it also definitively occurs in the Kiryu continuity as well. So like Mothra, it belongs definitively to one Kaiju timeline, and has a great argument for being included in the Showa era...so worth owning/including in marathons for me.

Rodan is the solo debut of the character prior to appearing in a Godzilla film. He is 'resurrected' at Mnt. Aso where the 2 Rodans died in the solo film...there seems to be a general familiarity with the name/creature from the masses.

Plus Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster works so well as a big, exciting crossover when you actually have 3 characters that have all had solo films coming together. Godzilla, Mothra, and Rodan fighting the new threat of Ghidorah....as opposed to "Godzilla, Mothra, and a new monster fighting the new threat of Ghidorah"

Bruh you're missing out. Going by your criteria though, I'm curious why you overlook Frankenstein considering Baragon plays a sizable role in GMK, on top of the fact that it's a solid kaiju flick.

While I don't think many of these films are "canon" necessarily, many of Toho's sci-fi films are on the shelf with all my Godzilla films.

Rodan, The Mysterians, H-Man, Battle in Outer Space, Mothra, Atragon, Matango, Frankenstein, War of the Gargantuas, King Kong Escapes and the Mothra trilogy all have a place amongst my Godzilla films. Still need the rest of those Tokyo Shock films though.

[Ivo-goji]

All of Toho's Showa era special effects films are part of the Godzilla timeline to me since virtually all of them are from the same team of creators and feature similar themes, characters, and story details. I don't really see the point of taking an exclusive view of the canon.

[Goji]

I don't really see the point of taking an exclusive view of the canon.

And yet, that's exactly what you're doing. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

[Chrispy_G]

I'm curious why you overlook Frankenstein considering Baragon plays a sizable role in GMK, on top of the fact that it's a solid kaiju flick.

Okay, I'll try to illustrate this as best I can. Baragon having a major presence in GMK doesn't make me want to have 'Frankenstein Conquers the World' because those two films don't share any continuity. With Mothra and War of the Gargantuas and how they relate to G Against MechaG and Tokyo SOS....there is a shared canon and so for me, more 'meaning' in including and owning them.

Mothra, Rodan, and War of the Gargantuas have a bit of something that they contribute to the showa era. Introducing Mothra and that lore, introducing the Rodan character, and introducing the Maser Cannons.

For the Showa eras, including the 'solo films' of the monsters that only make brief cameos in Destroy All Monsters just doesn't make much sense to me.

I kind of subscribe to the more literal version of the Showa era where DAM, occurring in 1999, is the FINALE of the Showa series. So to me, going from ToG to DAM....it makes sense that in DAM there would be a decent batch of new, never before seen monsters.

It's a fine line and an interesting discussion. But I'm mostly keeping it to 'Godzilla films, plus select other films that REALLY warrant inclusion'

[eabaker]

Baragon having a major presence in GMK doesn't make me want to have 'Frankenstein Conquers the World' because those two films don't share any continuity.

They don't share any diegetic continuity, but what about their historical relationship in the evolution of the genre and its recurring characters?

Besides which, regardless of any connection or lack thereof to other movies, Frankenstein Conquers the World is just really awesome.

[OurBladesAreSharp]

Chrispy, you don't make up your own cannon. That's not how things work.

To be honest, I generally dislike obsessive discussion about the Godzilla cannon. The Heisei series kept good, consistent continuity, but it really is not something to think about much with any of the other entries. The Showa series kept pretty loose continuity like James Bond, most likely so audiences could start with any entry without having to have seen the others. Pretty much just Godzilla and Godzilla Raids Again along with Mothra vs, Ghidorah and Astro Monster/Monster Zero and Mechagodzilla and Terror of Mechagodzilla have much in the way of continuity in that events from the previous film are referred to. Gigan and Megalon a bit too.

For the love of Godziller, I wish people would talk more about the cinematic and SFX technique of these movies rather than the "cannon", which is just a waste of time quite frankly.

[Chrispy_G]

Chrispy, you don't make up your own cannon. That's not how things work.

What? I'm not writing laws here. Every fan's collection is entitled to be structured however they want it. Every single person has their own 'canon' of films they watch. I'm not debating what belong or doesn't belong in official Showa continuity. I'm simply illustrating that for my personal interests and uses...outside of the Godzilla films, only a select few are worth including.

I'm not damning any movies out of existence, or telling anyone else not to watch/include them. If we want to use terms like 'personal canon' that's fine, but ultimately it amounts to 'What's in your marathon?'...and I feel that should be completely up to the discretion of every viewer.

I come at all of this from more of a continuity and logical perspective. It isn't "What was made in the era", it is "What actually has a measurable, meaningful link back into the Godzilla films that might make this movie required viewing in a marathon?

It makes sense to have a basis for who Mothra and Rodan are before Ghidorah, the Three Headed Monster. You don't need a basis for who Gorosaurus or Baragon are to provide any beneficial context to their appearances in DAM.

Mothra, Rodan, and War of the Gargantuas have pretty clear ways that they spill/connect into the greater Godzilla Showa era(With Mothra and Gargantuas outright belonging to the Kiryu-Continuity)

I'm not forging a total 'Kaiju Collection', it is a Godzilla collection, and where non-Godzilla films relate/connect enough to the Godzilla films, I include them.

I don't see why people are such sticklers about this 'You can't make up your own canon' thing. Because, yeah, pretty much everyone is free to their opinions on what to watch and ignore, and nobody can force them not to...nobody is denying Toho's official policy or gospel on any of this.

"What you prefer" and "What is official" don't have to match, and I don't feel that every single "fan version" of any of the canon/continuities should be forced to come with some kind of "Now I know this isn't sticking to canon...BUT" disclaimer.

[eabaker]

You include War of the Gargantuas, but not Frankenstein Conquers the World, even though WoG is a sequel to FCtW?

[Chrispy_G]

Loose sequel, at best, depending on what version of the film you watch.

[eabaker]

You could apply that statement to the overwhelming majority of kaiju films.

War of the Gargantuas includes flashbacks that are clearly based on the events of Frankenstein Conquers the World (albeit with details modified), which, to my mind, creates a much stronger connection than Tokyo S.O.S. using a bit of footage from War of the Gargantuas and including a piece of fan-favorite tech without otherwise suggesting that events as portrayed in the older story also happened in the context of the newer story.

But, hey, your head canon, your choice.

[OurBladesAreSharp]

Coming up with fan theories based on aspects of the story that aren't fleshed out is fine and something I often find very entertaining to read, like the "WMG" section of many TV Tropes pages.

Like I think All Monsters Attack is not set in the Showa Godzilla universe but in the real world where Godzilla is a fictional character.

But having your own personal interpretation of cannon in direct contradiction with Toho's is a lot more dubious.

[eabaker]

Like I think All Monsters Attack is not set in the Showa Godzilla universe but in the real world where Godzilla is a fictional character.

I'd actually say that reading is at least as supportable by the narrative as the reading that the monsters actually do exist in Ichiro's world, if not more so.

A little more dubious is my similar interpretation of Hedorah, which I ultimately couldn't totally back-up with the text, but which I still like to toy with while watching the movie.

[OurBladesAreSharp]

I also think Madame Piranha/Madame X from King Kong Escapes is likely allies, in league with or possibly even the actual leader of the Red Bamboo, but that's a whole different story for a whole 'nother day.

[Spuro]

Baragon having a major presence in GMK doesn't make me want to have 'Frankenstein Conquers the World' because those two films don't share any continuity.

They don't share any diegetic continuity, but what about their historical relationship in the evolution of the genre and its recurring characters?

Besides which, regardless of any connection or lack thereof to other movies, Frankenstein Conquers the World is just really awesome.

Also, Frankenstien vs Baragon IS connected to War of the Gargantuas, so if you're including FvB's sequel into the "canon", then I don't see why you'd leave it out.

[Chrispy_G]

Upon a recent re-watch of Gargantuas...I might revise my position on including it in the Showa marathon. It being included in the Kiryu saga by way of footage being directly used is enough for me...but it being the film that debuted the Maser Cannons(And a loose sequel to Frankenstein Conquers the World) aren't exactly strong enough connections to warrant it being included in the greater Godzilla-Show series.

So I think in the future, my Godzilla Showa marathon will consist of only the Godzilla films, along with Mothra and Rodan. Destroy All Monsters will also be saved for the 'finale' of the film.

The "Kiryu" Saga will include all of the films featured in the opening though, Godzilla, Mothra, War of the Gargantuas.

[StAiRcAsE KiTtY]

What about Rebirth of Mothra trilogy?

[Pkmatrix]

What about Rebirth of Mothra trilogy?

I remember there was a rumor in the 1990s that the Rebirth of Mothra films were in the same universe as Heisei Godzilla, but when you actually watch them there's really no evidence suggesting that. The three are pretty self-contained within their own world, IMO.

[eabaker]

What about Rebirth of Mothra trilogy?

I remember there was a rumor in the 1990s that the Rebirth of Mothra films were in the same universe as Heisei Godzilla, but when you actually watch them there's really no evidence suggesting that. The three are pretty self-contained within their own world, IMO.

It certainly doesn't seem like the Elias of the RoM trilogy share any connection to the Cosmos of the Heisei Godzilla flicks.