Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

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tlyon2
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Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by tlyon2 »

Let me know if I missing any tie-ins or anything else? So here we go!

1.Gojira/Godzilla:King Of The Monsters (1954/1956)
2.Godzilla Raids Again! (1955)
3.Rodan (1956)
4.The Mysterians (1957)
5.Varan The Unbelievable (1958)
6.The Birth Of Japan/The Three Treasures (1959)
7.The Battle In Outer Space (1959)
8.Mothra (1961)
9.Gorath (1962)
10.King Kong vs Godzilla (1962)
11.Matango (1963)
12.Atragon (1963)
13.Dogora The Space Monster (1964)
14.Mothra vs Godzilla (1964)
15.Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster (1964)
16.Invasion Of The Astro Monster (1965)
17.Frankenstein Conquers The World (1965)
18.The War Of The Gargantuas (1966)
19.Godzilla vs The Sea Monsters (1966)
20.King Kong Escapes (1967)
21.Son Of Godzilla (1967)
22.Destroy All Monsters (1968)
23.Latitude Zero (1969)
24.All Monsters Attack (1969)
25.Yog:The Monster From Space/Space Amoeba (1970)
26.Godzilla vs Hedorah (1971)
27.Godzilla vs Gigan (1972)
28.Godzilla vs Megalon (1973)
29.Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla (1974)
30.Terror Of Mechagodzilla (1975)
31.The War In Space (1977)
32.Zone Fighter TV series (1973)

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Terasawa
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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by Terasawa »

I'm not sure what you want by "tie-ins." If you're looking for the films that are part of the Showa Godzilla series:

The Mysterians, Battle in Outer Space, The Three Treasures, Gorath, Latitude Zero, and The War in Space aren't connected to the Godzilla films in any way. In fact, none of these is really a monster movie either. Battle in Outer Space doesn't even have a monster in it.

You could also probably cross off Matango, Dogora, The War of the Gargantuas and Yog because the events of these films aren't referenced in the Showa Godzilla movies. Then I would remove Varan, Atragon, Frankenstein Conquers the World, and King Kong Escapes because their only connection to the Godzilla series is the appearance of a monster from each in Destroy All Monsters.

So you're left with the the fifteen Showa Godzilla movies, Rodan, Mothra, and Zone Fighter (of which only seven episodes feature established Toho monsters).

Personally, I think you should watch all of these you listed because they were produced during the golden age of the Japanese monster movie. Most of these movies were produced by the same crews and starred the same actors and actresses, so while they aren't Godzilla movies, many of them have that same feel to them. In regards to that point, I think the only outlier on your list is The Three Treasures. It's a great movie but not at all like a Godzilla film.

The other sci-fi, horror, disaster, and fantasy films produced by Toho from 1954-1979:

The Invisible Man (1954)
Half Human (1955) - aka Monster Snowman
The H-Man (1958) - On R1 DVD from Sony.
The Secret of the Telegian (1960)
The Human Vapor (1960)
The Last War (1961)
The Vampire Doll (1970)
The Lake of Dracula (1971)
The Submersion of Japan (1973) - aka Tidal Wave
Evil of Dracula (1974)
The Prophecies of Nostradamus (1974) - aka The Last Days of Planet Earth
ESPY (1974)
Conflagration (1975) - aka High Seas Hijack
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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by eabaker »

Terasawa wrote:You could also probably cross off Matango, Dogora, The War of the Gargantuas and Yog because the events of these films aren't referenced in the Showa Godzilla movies. Then I would remove Atragon, Frankenstein Conquers the World, and King Kong Escapes because their only connection to the Godzilla series is the appearance of a monster from each in Destroy All Monsters. (Varan could similarly be removed.)
I guess, if we include Frankenstein Conquers the World on the basis of Baragon, then we also have to include War of the Gargantuas, even if it is pretty heavy with ret-con.

But I long ago stopped even thinking of the Showa Godzilla movies as being part of a single, coherent universe, and I certainly don't think that the recurrence of a monster across movies means that the movies' respective narratives must be related. Heck, King Kong vs. Godzilla and King Kong Escapes are pretty much irreconcilable with one another.
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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by Goji »

Apparently, Zone Fighter is canon with the Showa Godzilla series, but whether or not that's actually true, I have no idea. You'd have to do some heavy translating from one of those Japanese Godzilla books that happens to mention ZF.

I like to think there is a (very) loose canon with Rodan and Mothra; being that the adult Mothra in Mothra vs. Godzilla appears to more or less the same one from Mothra, and a Rodan appears from Mount Aso in Ghidorah the Three Headed Monser; the same volcano that both Rodans saw their demise at the end of their film (there's also that line about Rodan being "revived" in the Classic Media subs for Ghidorah, but CM's subs were pretty suspect, so that's really nothing to go by).

Of course, I don't think any of that is necessarily 'official' or anything, but at the very least, it's fun to imagine it that way.
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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by tlyon2 »

Well it looks like I found a tie-in to The Battle In Outer Space in Ghidrah The Three Headed Monster, starting at the 26:08 mark you can see two toy models one is a orange spaceship hanging in the air and the mother ship displayed on a desk. Also in the far background on the top left side of the wall there's a picture hanging up which look like grey spaceships in space leaving earth by the looks of it, but I could be wrong on that one others would have to look at it and confirm if it is or not?

You see now we have a tin-in between The Battle In Outer Space and Ghidrah The Three Headed Monster. Maybe even The Mysterians too?

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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by UltramanGoji »

I wouldn't exactly take background props as proof of a "tie-in", otherwise we'd be saying that King Kong vs. Godzilla is canon to Godzilla vs. Destroyah because of the 1962 model.
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tlyon2
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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by tlyon2 »

So I had a chance to re-watch a better copy of Latitude Zero online late tonight to see if there was a tie-in of any kind and the only thing I found was some of the same music that is later used in Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla but that's it! Better then nothing I guess.

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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by Spuro »

The Showa timeline is loose enough that "canon" is really left up to viewer interpretation a lot of the time. Of course this doesn't include movies that obviously aren't canon, like Gorath or Latitude Zero - but something like Frankenstein vs Baragon or Varan are plausible. While it's true that no Godzilla film references those events explicitly, the Godzilla movies rarely reference each other in the first place - outside of Godzilla Raids Again, GTTHM and Monster Zero.

The films that are generally accepted as canon are the original Rodan and Mothra movies, but after that I think the viewer is welcome to pick and choose.

Films that could potentially be part of the Godzilla Canon:
- Varan
- Dogora
- Frankenstein vs Baragon
- War of the Gargantuas
- Space Amoeba

King Kong Escapes isn't listed here, due to the strange height differences of Kong in this movie vs KKvG, among other factors.

Atragon and the Mysterians MIGHT potentially be connected... but that's stretching it a bit. About the only real "evidence" would be that these films could contribute to the idea that we and sending humans to planets beyond Jupiter in the 1960s.
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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by Terasawa »

tlyon2 wrote:You see now we have a tin-in between The Battle In Outer Space and Ghidrah The Three Headed Monster. Maybe even The Mysterians too?
Battle in Outer Space is set in 1965, so that would put it some time after the events of Ghidrah. As I said before, I don't believe there's any reason to connect these movies.
Kaiju-King42 wrote:King Kong Escapes isn't listed here, due to the strange height differences of Kong in this movie vs KKvG, among other factors.
I think a better reason to rule out KKE is that Kong is treated as a mythical creature until he's finally discovered. That doesn't fit with the events of King Kong vs. Godzilla.
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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by tlyon2 »

Going about what I've learn from the timeline in the showa universe the attacks of Battle In Outer space and Ghidrah The Three Headed Monster both take place in January of 1965, the natal aliens attack sometime during the 1st half of January while Ghidrah would attack sometime during the 2nd half of January.

We know in Ghidrah The Three Headed Monster at the beginning of the movie that one of them mentions the month of January during a strange heat wave they were having, so to me it's pretty clear the events are taking place in January 1965 and not December of 1964 when the movie was made.

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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by Ivo-goji »

Battle In Outer Space introduces the Atomic Heat Ray technology, which appears again in a more primitive form in Mothra. BIOS also originates the idea of Interpol investigating alien activity, which is a major plot point in the Mechagodzilla duology.

Most of Toho's Showa era special effects films reference each other or are directly tied together by Word of God statements in books and such. The only movies I'd really question are Gorath (which features the moon being destroyed before DAM) and War in Space (which is a weird remake of BIOS).
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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by tlyon2 »

Ivo-goji wrote:Battle In Outer Space introduces the Atomic Heat Ray technology, which appears again in a more primitive form in Mothra. BIOS also originates the idea of Interpol investigating alien activity, which is a major plot point in the Mechagodzilla duology.

Most of Toho's Showa era special effects films reference each other or are directly tied together by Word of God statements in books and such. The only movies I'd really question are Gorath (which features the moon being destroyed before DAM) and War in Space (which is a weird remake of BIOS).
If you re-watch Invasion Of The Astro-Monster there is a quick scene of the p-1 rocket ship passing by on there way back to earth what looks like a space station or ship of some kind that is suppose to be from the movie Gorath, whatever its suppose to be that would be your tie-in there! If you listen to the commentary on Invasion Of The Astro-Monster they give it a quick mention about it.

As for The War In Space that's the only one I still haven't seen yet but I would like to someday.

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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by g2vd »

If we go by Godzilla The Game's Gorosaurus bio, KKE is actually canon to the Godzilla series.
Gorosaurus, the Primeval Monster

An evolved relic species of the Allosaurus, a carnivorous dinosaur from the late Jurassic Period. It moves nimbly and uses its long tail as a springboard to pounce and attack. Its ultimate attack is a two-legged flying kick that can connect from as far as 30 meters away.

Although carnivorous, the Gorosaurus is not savage at heart. The first one discovered on Mondo Island was eventually defeated by King Kong, but another was bred on an isolated island at a safe haven called “Monsterland.” Though manipulated by the Kilaaks to destroy the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, it later joined the army of earth monsters in the fight against King Ghidorah.

Gorosaurus’s model has proven quite popular due to its lifelike realism. Die-cut latex mixed with sawdust was applied to the skin over the entire body to achieve a sense of hardness and mass.
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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by Ivo-goji »

Of course King Kong Escapes is canon.

Clark Nelson is obviously a relative of Mothra's Carl Nelson, and Mie Hama's character is clearly employed by the Red Bamboo.

Kong's size difference is easily explained by there being two members of the species.
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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by Goji »

I don't know about "clearly", but it's a fun thought, anyway.
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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by Rodan »

Toho's Showa monster movies are the original cinematic universe.

...Or something.

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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by tlyon2 »

Found another small tie-in between Varan: The Unbelievable and Ghidrah The Three Headed Monster. In both movies a news paper called Mysteries Of The 20th Century is mention in both movies!

Another much more looser tie-in from Mothra and Matango is with nuclear testing that was done on both infant and matango island. I also found out that picture in the background from GTTHM is not the spaceships from The Mysterians but is in fact the early form of Dogora, the picture matches up perfectly with the first few scenes shown in outer space early on in the Dogora movie!

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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by Mastergodzilla »

For me. Each time it varys a bit, but I'm trying to get them straight:
The Showa godzilla movies
Rodan
Mothra
King Kong escapes
Varvan
Atragon
I guess a the others could be in it, too, but the unverise almost needs this to make sense.

Added in 1 minute 37 seconds:
And plus, if you do what some people do and include final wars in the Showa series (I do it in the Hesisi) you would definitely need artagon

Added in 1 minute 43 seconds:
And. Sometimes I take all monsters attack out of the series just because it dosent do anything for continuity and I just don't like it

Added in 1 minute 56 seconds:
I also include King Kong and son of kong (both 1933)
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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by Goji »

What you have their is called a 'personal canon'. You can make an argument for some of the Showa films, but King Kong Escapes is definitely in it's own universe. The RKO Kong films have nothing to do with any Toho universes, but that much is obvious.
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Re: Are these all the Godzilla/tie ins toho showa universe?

Post by ProfessorBeats »

I could go on including my own "personal cannon," but I think I'd like to just make an argument for Mysterians and Battle in Outer Space, and why I include them.

The big obvious reason is Moguera. His appearance in the Heisei series is much more appreciated when one knows about his earlier appearance. And that's what attracts a lotta fans to these movies anyway.

But my BIG reason is because of continuity. Aside from the Venusian in Ghidorah the Three Headed Monster, aliens and space are both elements that are seemingly randomly dropped into the Godzilla series, and without making much sense. For example, in Astro Monster, even though the real world hadn't even gone to the moon when this movie was released (I'm aware that the exact year of that film is up for debate, but stay with me here), they are just blasting off to Planet X like it's no big thing. And then they find aliens, and while it's a bit surprising, it's not AS surprising as one might think.

But if you include Mysterians, then Earth has already encountered aliens once before, and had to fend them off in a rather big way. Furthermore, Mysterians ends with a big push for making tech in order to defend themselves, including by building planetary defenses in Orbit. By the time we get to Battle in Outer Space, moon travel is happening, there are satellites, and the stars are being monitored. It also ends with most of those specific defenses being destroyed, prior to the invasions we see in the Ghidorah movies and so on. Therefore, I like to add them.

As an anecdote, in the past three years, I've watched the Godzilla franchise in its entirety with non-fans twice. The first time, I excluded those two entries, which was my wife's first time watching these. The second time, my wife was also present, but I included these two films, and without actually pointing out to her that I had added a few to the roster (and keep in mind, she is someone for whom these movies all sort of bleed together indistinguishably for), she commented "Ooooh! This makes way more sense as to why/how they go to Planet X later on." So, my two cents, keeping these two in whatever roster you're building, is worthwhile. Plus, they're fun movies!

For what it's worth, while not at all as narratively necessary (not necessary at all, in fact) The War In Space is nice to slide in prior to Destroy All Monsters - provided you are watching DAM at the end of the Showa series, where is takes place in the timeline - as something of a space romp to fill that gap on Earth in which all of the monsters are rounded up on the island following Terror of Mechagodzilla. This was similarly appreciated by those who sat in for each of my marathons through these movies.
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