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Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:13 pm
by JVM
Image

I liked Kumonga in Son of Godzilla. Can't really describe his role, but it reminds me of a sort of "final boss." I do wonder if Kumonga was man-sized and made giant, or normal and became giant, or whether Kumonga had been a giant the whole time.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:48 am
by Primevalgodzilla V2
Kumonga is an excellent, terrifying addition to the Toho eiga, and despite ebing an oridnary spider, he actually proved to be a massive threat to even the King himself. His design and role as a whole outdoes his FW version. Heck, the FX that went into him was probably alot better.

Overall, one of my favourites, and a worthy and dangerous addition to the Godzilla rogues gallery.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:44 am
by TokyoVigilante
Simplistic. Very much a 60s Toho creation. I liked how he played dead, totally manhandled, and almost ate the whole monster population on Sollgel Island on a whim. Badass.

According to the journal of Reikos father and her, it's always been that big. Which is even freakier.

I'm fond of Speiga.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:25 am
by GodzillaDude
The best thing about Son of Godzilla in my opinion besides Godzilla's fight with the Kamacuras.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:35 am
by HayesAJones
A great monster. Pretty plain design-wise, but his execution in the movie is excellent.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:34 pm
by Reptile
Didn't know Kumonga is a theif!


A thief of lives. Muahahahahahaha! :twisted:

Anywho, I've always liked Kumonga. One of Godzilla's more underrated foes.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:29 pm
by edgaguirus
Kumonga is a deadly and cunning creature. He was a danger to Godzilla himself, and that says a lot. I like Kumonga.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:15 pm
by Showa Gyaos
Loved the simple, yet perfectly executed marionette. For a giant spider, he is quite awesome, and original in his own way. Atari should've placed him in the earlier video games, because he's that great! :cool:

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:17 pm
by JVM
Okay, this is annoying.

The image was fine yesterday, why is it SUDDENLY "not hotlinking?"

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:18 am
by Rody
Inferno Rodan wrote:Kumonga's awesome, and easily one of the most underrated kaiju in terms of strength.


Yes. Kumonga definitely deserves more credit. Toho took a very simplistic idea for a monster, made it surprisingly unique, and executed it almost flawlessly.

BTW, spitting silk from the mouth isn't as inaccurate as you may think. Spitting spiders have special silk glands under their mouth for the purpose of shooting/coating prey.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:33 am
by Tohosaurus
TokyoVigilante wrote:I liked how he played dead, totally manhandled, and almost ate the whole monster population on Sollgel Island on a whim. Badass.

According to the journal of Reikos father and her, it's always been that big. Which is even freakier.

All of this.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:14 pm
by Ookondru99
When I was young i used to own godzilla's revenge (terrible movie). Whenever I saw the Kumonga Godzilla battle I always wanted to know what movie he was in so i could rent it :lol:

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:49 pm
by DoctorMafune
Living Corpse wrote:I think the down right most terrifying thing about him is that he is smarter then one would expect from an overgrown spider. Teaming up with other monsters to deal with King Ghidorah, playing dead, shooting out one of Godzilla's eyes.

You're right.

I hadn't really thought about this much, but he is frighteningly clever.

I remember some of my friends in Japan mentioning that among Japanese fans, Kumonga was never a popular opponent for Godzilla... hence, the scarcity of Kumonga toys and kits.

Other than the fact that he's freakishly ugly as well as cunning, this seems unwarranted... Kumonga definitely represented more of a threat to Godzilla than Kamakiras, Ebirah, or several others.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:26 am
by Rody
DoctorMafune wrote:I remember some of my friends in Japan mentioning that among Japanese fans, Kumonga was never a popular opponent for Godzilla... hence, the scarcity of Kumonga toys and kits.

Other than the fact that he's freakishly ugly as well as cunning, this seems unwarranted... Kumonga definitely represented more of a threat to Godzilla than Kamakiras, Ebirah, or several others.


I was under the impression there aren't many toys of those kaiju either.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:33 am
by Kubo
My favorite giant spider of all time. He/she is one smart cookie, and definitely is the strategist despite some unimaginable odds. I felt SoG did a great job of making Spiega scary.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:18 pm
by DoctorMafune
Living Corpse wrote:
Rody wrote:
DoctorMafune wrote:I remember some of my friends in Japan mentioning that among Japanese fans, Kumonga was never a popular opponent for Godzilla... hence, the scarcity of Kumonga toys and kits.

Other than the fact that he's freakishly ugly as well as cunning, this seems unwarranted... Kumonga definitely represented more of a threat to Godzilla than Kamakiras, Ebirah, or several others.


I was under the impression there aren't many toys of those kaiju either.


I think what he means is that even Kamakiras and Ebirah get more toys made of them then Kumonga does.


For example, Ebirah got a Bullmark figure, and Kumonga didn't. Kamakiras got a Bandai figure, and Kumonga didn't.

Kumonga did get a Marmit Vinyl Paradise figure, but Ebirah and Kamakiras each got one, too. Same comment for the Marusan line.

The two instances I can think of offhand where the spider edged out either of the others were (1) in the Marmit ParaBaby line (Kumonga and Kamakiras, but no Ebirah), and (2) a little line of solid-color vinyl capsule toys awhile back that had some offbeat choices, including Gailah and Kumonga.

OK, just went to Club Tokyo to check the actual counts. Ebirah has 28 toys listed, Kumonga has 11... edging out Kamakiras by 1(though I didn't try to partial out repaints / lucky bag editions of the same figures.)

So one could argue that Kumonga's not getting his fair share of the toys, given his stature as an opponent. IMO, that formidable an enemy should get more toy action than something as easy to put away as the big shrimp or one of those mantises.

Then again, it probably has something to do with how difficult it is to make a hairy spider look "cute" enough for a retro-style vinyl...

...and toys are the consolation prizes, anyway: What we really need is a huge, 30-cm scale X-Plus Kumonga pre-paint.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:42 pm
by DoctorMafune
Legion1979 wrote:I personally think saying one character is more toy worthy because of how powerful an opponent it is is incredibly silly.

It's all right, Legion... let it out, dude. There are 12-Step Programs for this... you can develop social skills, and we'll all be pulling for you.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:38 pm
by Gojira-Fan
DoctorMafune wrote:
Legion1979 wrote:I personally think saying one character is more toy worthy because of how powerful an opponent it is is incredibly silly.

It's all right, Legion... let it out, dude. There are 12-Step Programs for this... you can develop social skills, and we'll all be pulling for you.


I didn't find anything anti-social about his post.

You are clearly flamebaiting.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:35 pm
by DoctorMafune
Gojira-Fan wrote:I didn't find anything anti-social about his post.

You apparently didn't notice the part where he took one idea he didn't agree with — even though he presented no evidence against it — and called it "incredibly silly."

I really didn't imagine that someone who obviously knows his toys would choose to ignore the fact that King Ghidorah, MechaGodzilla, Gigan and Hedorah — Showa Godzilla's most powerful opponents — earned boatloads of toy replicas, whereas lightweights like Ebirah, Kamakiras and the Giant Condor, got far fewer.

Almost immediately, he (or someone else who's not paying attention to the statements he attacks) will jump in and say, "Hey, wait a minute... KG, MG, Gigan and Hedorah are more popular, too, and they got more screen time!"

Of course they are, and of course they did. And does anyone imagine that's a coincidence?

They're more popular in part because they are (a) well designed and (b) MORE POWERFUL.

Or does someone want to argue that that's "incredibly silly," too... and that Godzilla's popularity (on screen and in toy stores) has nothing to do with the fact that he's one of the most powerful monsters ever put on film?

And I suppose the Hulk's strength has nothing to do with his popularity, either.

In my earlier post, I did address the "Baragon factor" — i.e., "cuteness" — too... something else Legion chose to ignore before jumping in to hurl insults. Not that Baragon is relevant to my point about Godzilla's opponents, either... Showa Godzilla never fought Baragon, and I specifically addressed Showa Godzilla's opponents. Baragon's appeal came from what he did (and what he looked like) in his own film.

So what about Baragon and all of his toys? Baragon was a standout in a smaller scale, and in a non-Godzilla film. He was given a cute, puppy-dog face, which is — like I said in my first post — another factor in popularity as a toy.

And in case anybody's paying attention, Baragon was also more powerful than most of the other monsters in his size class, too.

So, one more time: there are likely multiple factors in a monster's popularity, both onscreen and in the toy stores. Design is one. "Cuteness" is another. And power level — which in turn, likely contributes to popularity, just like design does — sure as Hell looks like a third. (Quality of the movie may be a fourth. The list goes on.)

Kumonga (again, like I said) flunks the "cute" factor, which may help to explain why, when it comes to the relationship between power as a Showa G-opponent, and marketability as a toy back then, he's an outlier.... getting fewer toys than Ebirah, for example. Or it may not, but it's a viable idea... and there's nothing "silly" about it.

Powerful monsters — in general, though not without exception (before someone starts yelling about Mothra) — are more popular.

So let me challenge Legion to express his views without calling someone else's views "incredibly silly"... especially if he's not willing to take a second look at those views, and see whether they happen to match the numbers.

Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:54 am
by Gojira-Fan
DoctorMafune wrote:
Gojira-Fan wrote:I didn't find anything anti-social about his post.

You apparently didn't notice the part where he took one idea he didn't agree with — even though he presented no evidence against it — and called it "incredibly silly."

I really didn't imagine that someone who obviously knows his toys would choose to ignore the fact that King Ghidorah, MechaGodzilla, Gigan and Hedorah — Showa Godzilla's most powerful opponents — earned boatloads of toy replicas, whereas lightweights like Ebirah, Kamakiras and the Giant Condor, got far fewer.

Almost immediately, he (or someone else who's not paying attention to the statements he attacks) will jump in and say, "Hey, wait a minute... KG, MG, Gigan and Hedorah are more popular, too, and they got more screen time!"

Of course they are, and of course they did. And does anyone imagine that's a coincidence?

They're more popular in part because they are (a) well designed and (b) MORE POWERFUL.

Or does someone want to argue that that's "incredibly silly," too... and that Godzilla's popularity (on screen and in toy stores) has nothing to do with the fact that he's one of the most powerful monsters ever put on film?

And I suppose the Hulk's strength has nothing to do with his popularity, either.

In my earlier post, I did address the "Baragon factor" — i.e., "cuteness" — too... something else Legion chose to ignore before jumping in to hurl insults. Not that Baragon is relevant to my point about Godzilla's opponents, either... Showa Godzilla never fought Baragon, and I specifically addressed Showa Godzilla's opponents. Baragon's appeal came from what he did (and what he looked like) in his own film.

So what about Baragon and all of his toys? Baragon was a standout in a smaller scale, and in a non-Godzilla film. He was given a cute, puppy-dog face, which is — like I said in my first post — another factor in popularity as a toy.

And in case anybody's paying attention, Baragon was also more powerful than most of the other monsters in his size class, too.

So, one more time: there are likely multiple factors in a monster's popularity, both onscreen and in the toy stores. Design is one. "Cuteness" is another. And power level — which in turn, likely contributes to popularity, just like design does — sure as Hell looks like a third. (Quality of the movie may be a fourth. The list goes on.)

Kumonga (again, like I said) flunks the "cute" factor, which may help to explain why, when it comes to the relationship between power as a Showa G-opponent, and marketability as a toy back then, he's an outlier.... getting fewer toys than Ebirah, for example. Or it may not, but it's a viable idea... and there's nothing "silly" about it.

Powerful monsters — in general, though not without exception (before someone starts yelling about Mothra) — are more popular.

So let me challenge Legion to express his views without calling someone else's views "incredibly silly"... especially if he's not willing to take a second look at those views, and see whether they happen to match the numbers.


Now, I don't really collect toys, but how is him stating something is "incredibly silly" insulting?