Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby Moguera24 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:27 pm

In reply to Goji Camp

I was sort of just using Godzilla as an example for any monster that has the potential to kill Destoroyah. I'm not saying a Godzilla Kumo team would work, I'm just trying to illustrate that Kumo can't do it on his own. We really don't have enough reference material to determine if a healthy Godzilla can fight Des (unless you want to count the IDW titles, Godzilla puts up a good fight in those, but still requires the aid of Mothra and the Absolute Zero).
I was just making a little quip about the spikes, although I'm surprised that Destoroyah doesn't use them more effectively.

In the end I'm not entirely sure who would be the victor in a fight like this, but if a Goji and Kumo team up can't beat Des, then Kumo would have very little chance on his lonesome.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby The Godzilla Camp » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:29 pm

edgaguirus wrote:
The Godzilla Camp wrote:
edgaguirus wrote:Against a tooth and claw kaiju, Kumonga would be a devastating foe. Web and venom would end the conflicy quickly.

Most of the beam kaiju would pose a problem, however. While Godzilla was being overwhelmed by the webbing for a moment, his beam did force Kumonga back, and then a combined beam attack turned it into barbecue. Stronger beams, like Megalon's horn beam or MG's multiple lasers, would have much better effect on the spider.


Now that you mention it - wouldn't it be amusing if Mecha-G 1993 fired the twin shock-harpoons at Kumonga and Kumonga in vain tries firing webbing but ends up getting a nasty shock eh?

.




It'd be like the end of The Black Scorpion.


LOL XD - anyone for TFGS (Tokyo Fried Giant Spider) tonight? :)

Moguera24 wrote:In reply to Goji Camp

I was sort of just using Godzilla as an example for any monster that has the potential to kill Destoroyah. I'm not saying a Godzilla Kumo team would work, I'm just trying to illustrate that Kumo can't do it on his own. We really don't have enough reference material to determine if a healthy Godzilla can fight Des (unless you want to count the IDW titles, Godzilla puts up a good fight in those, but still requires the aid of Mothra and the Absolute Zero).
I was just making a little quip about the spikes, although I'm surprised that Destoroyah doesn't use them more effectively.

In the end I'm not entirely sure who would be the victor in a fight like this, but if a Goji and Kumo team up can't beat Des, then Kumo would have very little chance on his lonesome.


Ah I see - well with reference material on a 'healthy Godzilla' - what about Goji Junior? Or the problem is Goji Junior in your POV is still a tad bit young and not a 100% Godzilla in a sense given for intents and purposes he is a Godzilla but other than the fact he's friendlier and nicer and more tolerant to humans compared to Godzilla 1990s Heisei ... he did fend off against an Aggregate 40-60 meter tall DESTOROYAH but he wasn't able to fend off a fully grown Final Form DESTOROYAH at the time ... although its debatable we probably don't even know if that was the FINAL FORM of DESTOROYAH and who knows if he could have reformed and developed into an even MORE POWERFUL FORM if given time just like Hedorah 1971 ...

Um this might be a tangent BUT what if Kumonga were to take on the DESTOROYAH AGGREGATES (so not the small ones BUT the ones that swarmed Godzilla 1995 Meltdown and also gave Godzilla Junior a tough time ...) how many do you reckon Kumonga could take down or the DESTOROYAH AGGREGATES - unless its a one-on-one otherwise the number of DESTOROYAH AGGREGATES will eventually wear down and overwhelm Kumonga even if they don't bother reforming?

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby KaijuFiend » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:16 am

I agree with what others said - Kumonga will have a lot of trouble holding his own against beam kaiju, and probably also wouldn't fare well against ShodaiGigan due to his hooks, flight, and most importantly, buzzsaw. However, Kumonga is a huge threat to most tooth and claw kaiju.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby The Godzilla Camp » Sun May 24, 2015 8:55 pm

KaijuFiend wrote:I agree with what others said - Kumonga will have a lot of trouble holding his own against beam kaiju, and probably also wouldn't fare well against ShodaiGigan due to his hooks, flight, and most importantly, buzzsaw. However, Kumonga is a huge threat to most tooth and claw kaiju.


But isn't Kumonga's webbing quite strong and only heat can cut through it? Given IF Gigan 1972 is caught in it - would the buzz-saw even help trying to cut through it? Plus what if Gigan gets struck by the deadly toxic stinger of Kumonga or the venomous darts ...

And durability wise - didn't Kumonga also endure several Atomic Ray Beams from Godzilla 1967 and it was only after the combined might of Minya and Godzilla 1967 plus perhaps abit of the winter storm that really finally badly wounded the Kumonga into 'S.I.F.S' (Sogo Island Fried Spider)

Moguera24 wrote:
The Godzilla Camp wrote:
Hello again! Really? I came across this anatomy of Hedorah and it displayed that underneath the greasy acidic mass - there's actually vital organs and a brain and such beneath that - here's the link: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Hedo ... dae7419000

As with DESTOROYAH - well question is whether the stinger will also affect or puncture through the armored carapace - and given how the Kamakura's was quickly dealt with ... and if the Kamakura's had the carapace as well ... or DESTOROYAH still would have a tougher outer carapace? Wait - then again given how DESTOROYAH was able to come back nice and new after he was blasted by 3x regular Spiral Ray Beams and a few pummels ...

Ah with the sludgy greasiness of Hedorah - yes BUT given the fact Big-G managed to grapple and hurl him about at times - surely he could have just 'sludged' his way out at times right? And given even Big-G managed to trip him and knock him over ...

BUT wouldn't Kumonga/Spiga 1967's speed and ambushing be an advantage in both cases? Given DESTOROYAH in Final Form is awfully slow whilst Hedorah - he may change form - he may fly - he may super-leap BUT he ain't Superman or the Flash ...

I would take that old concept art with a grain of salt, most of it isn't really good.

Kamacuras did have a carapace, but generally spider fangs are made to pierce insect hide, not so much crustacean shell

I think the problems of Hedorah are just the limitations of using a suit to portray your monster.

The problem is Kumonga's only "kill" move, her/his venom, is unreliable in both cases. I'm not sure Kumo has the strength the bludgeon them to death either. Des and Hedorah however, both have easy to use and very powerful ways of killing their opponents. Kumo can hold its own, but it would be fighting a losing battle.


Hello again! Not that I'm visiting old threads BUT I just viewed Son of Godzilla yesterday by chance and I was viewing Kumonga again plus how the team noted how Kumonga's webbing is extremely strong and can only be cut by heat and such - wouldn't that mean that's a problem for Hedorah and DESTOROYAH? That is in a one-on-one battle? I mean Hedorah may have a corrosive toxic sludgy body mass but does he generate enough heat or is he 'flexible' enough to be protean enough to slip through the webbing? Afterall arachnid webbing is actually quite strong and even tougher than tensile steel! And Kumonga being a web-happy individual plus being a big spider one way or another plus he's fairly durable - able to endure more than one Atomic Ray Beams from Godzilla 1967 and Minya for the matter ... and the fact it was only their desperate defense plus perhaps the winter storm that finally weakened Kumonga ... but point being DESTOROYAH - would the Oxygen Destroyer/MICRO-OXYGEN be able to cut through the webbing when only heat can really work against it? And the fact how what if DESTOROYAH or Hedorah were both 'bound' and downed by the webbing and couldn't have time to free themselves and such? And would that improve the odds for Kumonga or its going to still take more than strong webbing and for the matter even a 'healthy dosage' of venom to even affect them when DESTOROYAH for the matter has endured regular small arms, explosives, freezing weapons (the giant 40-60 meter tall aggregate had no trouble against the freezing Maser weapons) and Godzilla 1995's Spiral Ray and UBER SPIRAL RAY BEAMS (well he did have to retreat but considering most of Godzilla's other foes usually were blown up by a regular Spiral Ray Beam whilst DESTOROYAH was able to endure 3x UBER SPIRAL RAY BEAMS ...) and another dosage of freezing Maser weapons before he was finally downed ...

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby edgaguirus » Sun May 24, 2015 9:05 pm

We don't how hot, if it is at all, the micro oxygen beam is. I've never seen any information on that.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby The Godzilla Camp » Sun May 24, 2015 11:29 pm

edgaguirus wrote:We don't how hot, if it is at all, the micro oxygen beam is. I've never seen any information on that.


That's what I thought really IF Kumonga fires his webbing at DESTOROYAH - from Aggregate to Final Form and whether the MICRO-OXYGEN could dissolve the material in the webbing ... and the fact how DESTOROYAH isn't very fast ... and question is whether the venom stinger will work on DESTOROYAH effectively ... or before he could break down and reform ... OR if Kumonga could even endure a few blasts of the MICRO-OXYGEN beam ...

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby edgaguirus » Tue May 26, 2015 2:16 pm

I watched G vs Destroyah last night, and the micro oxygen spray doesn't seem to pack too much heat in my opinion. It seems more electrical in nature. When the spray hits soldiers, it creates a visual shock effect, and then throws the soldiers back. Electricity does produce some heat, but an open flame, like the lighter, would be hotter. The only real evidence of heat associated with mico oxygen is the tunnel heating up. As for dissolving the webbing, I'm not sure about that. Depends on how much water or moisture is in the webbing.

The spray seems to have more penetration and pushing power. The scientist says that micro oxygen can penetrate metal, and the micro oxygen spray did knock down Godzilla. Godzilla Jr. was able to take a few micro oxygen hits, so Kumonga might be able to stand a couple.

Edit: On looking up some information, spider silk starts as a liquid protein in the spider's body. When it hits air, it hardens into strands. That means there's no water to break down in the silk.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby The Godzilla Camp » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:28 pm

edgaguirus wrote:I watched G vs Destroyah last night, and the micro oxygen spray doesn't seem to pack too much heat in my opinion. It seems more electrical in nature. When the spray hits soldiers, it creates a visual shock effect, and then throws the soldiers back. Electricity does produce some heat, but an open flame, like the lighter, would be hotter. The only real evidence of heat associated with mico oxygen is the tunnel heating up. As for dissolving the webbing, I'm not sure about that. Depends on how much water or moisture is in the webbing.

The spray seems to have more penetration and pushing power. The scientist says that micro oxygen can penetrate metal, and the micro oxygen spray did knock down Godzilla. Godzilla Jr. was able to take a few micro oxygen hits, so Kumonga might be able to stand a couple.

Edit: On looking up some information, spider silk starts as a liquid protein in the spider's body. When it hits air, it hardens into strands. That means there's no water to break down in the silk.


Hello again! I just came to wondering also - assuming Kumonga could survive a few MICRO-OXYGEN sprays - but what about the INJECTION the Aggregates can launch? Or would his carapace be able to withstand the Aggregate's alien-like jaws? And I was wondering them - what if the Aggregates 'swarmed' Kumonga - would he be able to still fend them off in a sense or that would be trouble to him IF he manages to temporarily 'defeat' Destoroyah BUT Destoroyah chooses to dissolve into MICRO-OXYGEN for the time being and reverts to the Aggregate versions ... or even a 40-60 meter tall Aggregate DESTOROYAH would be a challenge for Kumonga and his best shot is hopefully the webbing and the stinger could 'paralyze' DESTOROYAH in a single form before he can break down and reform or odds are if DESTOROYAH can withstand conventional weapons and even the JSDF Freezing Weapons (notice where the giant 40-60 meter tall Aggregate was being bombarded w' regular and Freezing beams and wasn't even flinching ...AND it was only after Godzilla 1995 Meltdown vamped up the Spiral Ray Beams to UBER SPIRAL RAY BEAMS together with the fact it surely must have weakened DESTOROYAH and then the JSDF Freezing Weapons and Super XIII managed to finish him off) up to the Spiral Ray Beams ... odds are the webbing and well the stinger won't work that well? Given Godzilla - I've noticed he has trouble next to Electricity and multiple opponents was ... BIOLOGICAL AGENTS - given the Oxygen Destroyer, Kumonga's webbing/stinger, Hedorah 1971's nasty sludgy surprise, the Anti-Godzilla Nuclear Bacteria and Biollante's Acidic Sap to name a few ...

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby Lain Of The Wired » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:28 am

Oh man, do I love me some Showa Kumonga! One of Toho's big bads, and a monster that REALLY came close to ending the King of the Monster's reigns.
Also, according to his bio on the PS4 game, Kumonga's eyes glow pink/red when the monster's "excited"... interesting.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby edgaguirus » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:17 pm

Especially since his/her eyes are purple.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby Dino-Mario » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:21 pm

Yeah, Kumonga was one truly badass monster. He had an effective design and the practical effects used for him are rather impressive. Plus, he was a surprisingly creepy villain in an otherwise absurd, lighthearted flick.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby edgaguirus » Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:04 pm

What better villain than a giant spider.
Kaiju are just like people- giant, radioactive people.

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby Kaijugriffey » Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:20 pm

Not my favorite villain as at heart he's just another giant spider, part of a long line of movie giant spiders. He is however a wonderfully realized and scary as hell example of the breed in Son of Godzilla. Could be why I never cared for that film in my younger days. Too many giant bug things.

It's kind of a shame what a badly rendered CGI mess Kumonga was in GFW.

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby Jatahaxe » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:41 pm

Kaijugriffey wrote:It's kind of a shame what a badly rendered CGI mess Kumonga was in GFW.

Pretty sure that was an actual puppet being used that looks so slick that it gives the illusion of CGI. I like it. He looks younger in FW, if that makes any sense. The stripes are more pronounced than in past incarnations, giving him at least somewhat more of a unique design.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby Godzillian » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:46 pm

Kaijugriffey wrote:Not my favorite villain as at heart he's just another giant spider, part of a long line of movie giant spiders. He is however a wonderfully realized and scary as hell example of the breed in Son of Godzilla. Could be why I never cared for that film in my younger days. Too many giant bug things.

It's kind of a shame what a badly rendered CGI mess Kumonga was in GFW.

It wasn't CGI it was a puppet. It can't compare to the showa one though all the FW Kumonga did was jump around.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby Kaijugriffey » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:43 pm

Godzillian wrote:
Kaijugriffey wrote:Not my favorite villain as at heart he's just another giant spider, part of a long line of movie giant spiders. He is however a wonderfully realized and scary as hell example of the breed in Son of Godzilla. Could be why I never cared for that film in my younger days. Too many giant bug things.

It's kind of a shame what a badly rendered CGI mess Kumonga was in GFW.

It wasn't CGI it was a puppet. It can't compare to the showa one though all the FW Kumonga did was jump around.


Wow! That was a practical effect? I gotta go back and watch those scenes in GFW again because I just assumed they were more bad CGI. But to achieve the look of a video game cutscene with a puppet is impressive.

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby KaijuFiend » Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:29 am

The stripes were a bit too bold on FW Kumonga imo. Didn't look natural. He's a tarantula not a female black widow.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby Giga Kaiju » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:24 pm

Kumonga surely looked eerie on its first appearance, rising from the ground to prey on the human characters, I mean...

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He is a spider/tarantula already, sure that does the work enough, but still...

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby TyrantGojira » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:13 am

My little brother hates this monster. He freaked out the first time he fought it in Daikaiju Battle Royale.
"Am I glad he's frozen in there and that we're out here, and that he's the sheriff, and that we're frozen out here, and that we're in there and I just remembered we're out here. What I wanna know is where's the caveman?"
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby edgaguirus » Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:01 pm

The creep factor of this monster is strong. One reason my oldest sister will never watch it.
Kaiju are just like people- giant, radioactive people.

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" What can I say," Gigan asked. " I'm hooked."


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