Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby The Godzilla Camp » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:21 am

Not that I'm being a Trollinator BUT BUT whereas most would say - well by Showa Kaiju standards how Hedorah 1971, King Ghidorah 1964, Mecha-G 1974 would be amongst Big-G Showa's most deadliest foes and challenging - odd how KUMONGA/SPIGA 1967 isn't given:

1.) The Webbing - pretty tough and even Big-G 1967 had trouble ... as where the Mosura 1964 twin larvae were able to 'tag-bind him'... why not Kumonga/Spiga 1967 ...
2.) The Stinger - IT WAS A *&^%#! And it even managed to blind Big-G 1967 ...
3.) Strength - able to knock down Big-G 1967 when he was injured ...
4.) Ambush ... pretty tactical at times ...

Come to think of it COULDN'T KUMONGA/SPIGA 1967 one-shot almost most of the Showa Kaiju cast? I mean even having a 'shot' literally at say Mecha-G 1974? I mean surely he could use ambushes - he could spring attacks - he could also use his webs to 'blind' Mecha-G 1974 and 'jam' up his Optic Space Laser Beams? Or even trap him in one place? Although the stinger probably couldn't do much unless he just kept stabbing at him ... and question is COULD KUMONGA/SPIGA 1967 endure an onslaught of the 'ALL OUT ATTACK' of Mecha-G 1974?

Or EVEN HEDORAH 1971 - given HEDORAH 1971 may be able to reform and spew out SMOG - BUT aren't his eyes still vulnerable? Or question is whether the venom stinger will work on Hedorah 1971? Then again KUMONGA/SPIGA 1967 may have to watch out for the acidic mud, Crimson Eye Beams and the ability to reform and change and adapt ...

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby LamangoKaijura » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:27 am

Kumonga is defenitly the deadliest Earth based enemy Godzilla fought.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby The Godzilla Camp » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:32 pm

LamangoKaijura wrote:Kumonga is defenitly the deadliest Earth based enemy Godzilla fought.


That is - next to Mecha-G 1974 and Hedorah 1971 ... although both were Space Kaiju foes rather than terrestrial indeed ... wonder why they didn't make Kumonga/Spiga 1967 return to the Heisei series and the fact they made Kumonga/Spiga 1967 a bit of a joke in Final Wars :( ...

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby Godzillian » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:32 pm

LamangoKaijura wrote:Kumonga is definitely the deadliest Earth based enemy Godzilla fought.

Yeah, Kumonga was a real power house. Could probably toe to toe with most Showa era kaiju and have a good chance of coming out on top too.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby The Godzilla Camp » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:20 pm

Godzillian wrote:
LamangoKaijura wrote:Kumonga is definitely the deadliest Earth based enemy Godzilla fought.

Yeah, Kumonga was a real power house. Could probably toe to toe with most Showa era kaiju and have a good chance of coming out on top too.


Now that you mention it - Kumonga COULD probably even take on Hedorah 1971 or even DESTOROYAH in a fight - be it an ambush or straight-forward brawl given the webbing and poison stinger ... although question is whether it would work on them very well or not ...

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby edgaguirus » Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:43 pm

I have doubts about Hedorah. That acid sludge would do a number on Kumonga.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby The Godzilla Camp » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:07 pm

edgaguirus wrote:I have doubts about Hedorah. That acid sludge would do a number on Kumonga.


Hello again! Ah true BUT Kumonga SURELY could 'bind' Hedorah AND perhaps SPIT a few poison darts at Hedorah's eyes? Or assuming the venomous stinger is durable enough to 'inject' paralyzing venom into Hedorah ... could it work? Or not really? I mean Kumonga/Spiga 1967 was able to withstand Big-G 1967's Atomic Ray Beam and it took him and Minya to combine beams to weaken Kumonga/Spiga 1967 ...

As with DESTOROYAH - question is whether or not the venomous stinger would work on DESTOROYAH before he could break down into the Aggregates and escape ...

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby LamangoKaijura » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:55 am

Hedorah's sludge. He can just seep out of the webbing.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby JAGzilla » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:08 am

Hedorah could probably dissolve the webbing, too.

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:22 pm

And considering Destoroyah's biology, I'm not sure if venom would really work on him. Would it affect the entire body, or merely the microbes caught in the small area?
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby edgaguirus » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:04 pm

The Godzilla Camp wrote:
edgaguirus wrote:I have doubts about Hedorah. That acid sludge would do a number on Kumonga.


Hello again! Ah true BUT Kumonga SURELY could 'bind' Hedorah AND perhaps SPIT a few poison darts at Hedorah's eyes? Or assuming the venomous stinger is durable enough to 'inject' paralyzing venom into Hedorah ... could it work? Or not really? I mean Kumonga/Spiga 1967 was able to withstand Big-G 1967's Atomic Ray Beam and it took him and Minya to combine beams to weaken Kumonga/Spiga 1967 ...

As with DESTOROYAH - question is whether or not the venomous stinger would work on DESTOROYAH before he could break down into the Aggregates and escape ...



For venom to work, you need a nervous system, blood, and organs. Hedorah has none of those, so venom would be a wasted effort. The stinger could poke out an eye, but that's about it.

Destroyah would likely be effected by venom, but since Destroyah is made up of several creatures, then you might just poison a few of them. It would take out some, but not all of them.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby The Godzilla Camp » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:33 pm

edgaguirus wrote:
The Godzilla Camp wrote:
edgaguirus wrote:I have doubts about Hedorah. That acid sludge would do a number on Kumonga.


Hello again! Ah true BUT Kumonga SURELY could 'bind' Hedorah AND perhaps SPIT a few poison darts at Hedorah's eyes? Or assuming the venomous stinger is durable enough to 'inject' paralyzing venom into Hedorah ... could it work? Or not really? I mean Kumonga/Spiga 1967 was able to withstand Big-G 1967's Atomic Ray Beam and it took him and Minya to combine beams to weaken Kumonga/Spiga 1967 ...

As with DESTOROYAH - question is whether or not the venomous stinger would work on DESTOROYAH before he could break down into the Aggregates and escape ...



For venom to work, you need a nervous system, blood, and organs. Hedorah has none of those, so venom would be a wasted effort. The stinger could poke out an eye, but that's about it.

Destroyah would likely be effected by venom, but since Destroyah is made up of several creatures, then you might just poison a few of them. It would take out some, but not all of them.


Hello again! Really? I came across this anatomy of Hedorah and it displayed that underneath the greasy acidic mass - there's actually vital organs and a brain and such beneath that - here's the link: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Hedo ... dae7419000

As with DESTOROYAH - well question is whether the stinger will also affect or puncture through the armored carapace - and given how the Kamakura's was quickly dealt with ... and if the Kamakura's had the carapace as well ... or DESTOROYAH still would have a tougher outer carapace? Wait - then again given how DESTOROYAH was able to come back nice and new after he was blasted by 3x regular Spiral Ray Beams and a few pummels ...

Ah with the sludgy greasiness of Hedorah - yes BUT given the fact Big-G managed to grapple and hurl him about at times - surely he could have just 'sludged' his way out at times right? And given even Big-G managed to trip him and knock him over ...

BUT wouldn't Kumonga/Spiga 1967's speed and ambushing be an advantage in both cases? Given DESTOROYAH in Final Form is awfully slow whilst Hedorah - he may change form - he may fly - he may super-leap BUT he ain't Superman or the Flash ...

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby Moguera24 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:38 pm

The Godzilla Camp wrote:
Hello again! Really? I came across this anatomy of Hedorah and it displayed that underneath the greasy acidic mass - there's actually vital organs and a brain and such beneath that - here's the link: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Hedo ... dae7419000

As with DESTOROYAH - well question is whether the stinger will also affect or puncture through the armored carapace - and given how the Kamakura's was quickly dealt with ... and if the Kamakura's had the carapace as well ... or DESTOROYAH still would have a tougher outer carapace? Wait - then again given how DESTOROYAH was able to come back nice and new after he was blasted by 3x regular Spiral Ray Beams and a few pummels ...

Ah with the sludgy greasiness of Hedorah - yes BUT given the fact Big-G managed to grapple and hurl him about at times - surely he could have just 'sludged' his way out at times right? And given even Big-G managed to trip him and knock him over ...

BUT wouldn't Kumonga/Spiga 1967's speed and ambushing be an advantage in both cases? Given DESTOROYAH in Final Form is awfully slow whilst Hedorah - he may change form - he may fly - he may super-leap BUT he ain't Superman or the Flash ...

I would take that old concept art with a grain of salt, most of it isn't really good.

Kamacuras did have a carapace, but generally spider fangs are made to pierce insect hide, not so much crustacean shell

I think the problems of Hedorah are just the limitations of using a suit to portray your monster.

The problem is Kumonga's only "kill" move, her/his venom, is unreliable in both cases. I'm not sure Kumo has the strength the bludgeon them to death either. Des and Hedorah however, both have easy to use and very powerful ways of killing their opponents. Kumo can hold its own, but it would be fighting a losing battle.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby The Godzilla Camp » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:19 am

Moguera24 wrote:
The Godzilla Camp wrote:
Hello again! Really? I came across this anatomy of Hedorah and it displayed that underneath the greasy acidic mass - there's actually vital organs and a brain and such beneath that - here's the link: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Hedo ... dae7419000

As with DESTOROYAH - well question is whether the stinger will also affect or puncture through the armored carapace - and given how the Kamakura's was quickly dealt with ... and if the Kamakura's had the carapace as well ... or DESTOROYAH still would have a tougher outer carapace? Wait - then again given how DESTOROYAH was able to come back nice and new after he was blasted by 3x regular Spiral Ray Beams and a few pummels ...

Ah with the sludgy greasiness of Hedorah - yes BUT given the fact Big-G managed to grapple and hurl him about at times - surely he could have just 'sludged' his way out at times right? And given even Big-G managed to trip him and knock him over ...

BUT wouldn't Kumonga/Spiga 1967's speed and ambushing be an advantage in both cases? Given DESTOROYAH in Final Form is awfully slow whilst Hedorah - he may change form - he may fly - he may super-leap BUT he ain't Superman or the Flash ...

I would take that old concept art with a grain of salt, most of it isn't really good.

Kamacuras did have a carapace, but generally spider fangs are made to pierce insect hide, not so much crustacean shell

I think the problems of Hedorah are just the limitations of using a suit to portray your monster.

The problem is Kumonga's only "kill" move, her/his venom, is unreliable in both cases. I'm not sure Kumo has the strength the bludgeon them to death either. Des and Hedorah however, both have easy to use and very powerful ways of killing their opponents. Kumo can hold its own, but it would be fighting a losing battle.


Hello again! Well - didn't Kumonga/Spiga 1967 in a quick moment - managed to 'spit' and blind Godzilla 1967 and it sure did hurt him and even managed to knock him over and had it not been for Minya's desperate moments to protect Godzilla 1967 long enough for him to break off his webbing and then it took their combined Atomic Ray Beams to just weaken the Kumonga/Spiga 1967 ...

I mean are crustacean shells really that tough? I mean I ain't no palaeontologist but from what I read about the Cambrian Explosion and how shells and carapaces evolved ... and DESTOROYAH is a 'Precambrian Crustacean...' or would you say looking at his fight against Godzilla 1995 Meltdown where at first in the h2h combat it seemed Godzilla 1995 was just trying to pummel him with assaults and punches but nothing seemed to work although it seems DESTOROYAH prefers ranged combat ...

As with DESTOROYAH - well on a side note - how effective would you say the venom would be IF it did manage to penetrate or manage to get to the inner soft spots or even struck DESTOROYAH in the eye? Or it wouldn't matter as DESTOROYAH - if he could endure well - Spiral Ray Beams and such ... he wouldn't have had too much trouble?

Um - but surely - isn't Kumonga/Spiga 1967 fairly tricky and tactical - given how it was able to 'ambush' Minya and how it was able to trick Godzilla 1967 into blinding him and the fact how DESTOROYAH - he's kinda slow isn't he? Plus when he's charging up the MICRO-OXYGEN beam - it takes time and surely Kumonga/Spiga 1967 could dodge it or take advantage of this and try to spit poison darts or even webbing or retreat or ambush DESTOROYAH before he can recover? Or am I underestimating DESTOROYAH? It just seemed whilst powerful - he's kinda really slow ... and even if he can fly ... he's not exactly Superman or Flash or Rodan or King Ghidorah for the matter who can fly more than Mach 1-2 at the very least ...

As with Hedorah 1971 ... well - Hedorah 1971 isn't a very 'intelligent' monster is he eh? I mean true, Godzilla 1971 suffered nasty horrendous injuries but at times he did 'trick' Hedorah 1971 and even knocked him down by tricking him and taking advantage of his 'sludgyness' given look at how Godzilla 1971 used his tail to move the boulder and it had Hedorah 1971's attention long enough for Godzilla 1971 to punch him in the eye even though it was a 'sludgy' surprise to him ...

Back to DESTOROYAH ...dunno how the MICRO-OXYGEN will severely affect Kumonga/Spiga 1967 - given Goji Junior survived a direct injection from it ... other than perhaps a scarred chest and foaming and discomfort he appeared nice and well (most likely for sure courtesy of Organizer G-1 healing...)

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby Moguera24 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:43 am

^You bring up a lot of good points.

I guess to me I just can't see Kumonga getting in range for attacks without taking damage from the myriad of her opponents weapons.
Destoroyah is rather quick on the draw with his tail spike and that katana has quite a long range. Any of those could put some serious hurt on Kumonga.
Hedorah has a laser eye attack with as much range and damage as Godzilla breath. He can also change to flying form at the drop of a hat to escape danger.
Kumonga's webs won't do much good in trapping them, Hedorah is a living ball of organic-melting sludge, and Destoroyah has more spikes on him than a bad '90 comic book character. I could see both getting out of their trappings rather quickly.

In the end I think Kumonga is better off having an ally to support it in this situation, Kumo is very smart and fast, but would work better if teamed up with a powerhouse kaiju to support it and do damage.

For instance, if Goji and Kumo teamed up on Destoroyah, I could see Godzilla soaking up most of Des's attacks while Kumo jumps about and ambushes him from behind while Des is distracted with Godzilla, and webbing him up to slow him down. An ally like Godzilla would also have reliable ways to kill Destoroyah (bc I'm not so sure if the venom can do the trick).
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby Missingno. » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:27 pm

Maybe a Heisei Kumonga could've been given laser eyes so it can be in that era's standards and beam spam the living poop out of other monsters as well!

But seriously, I am not too sure about Kumonga taking on Destroyah or Hedorah, given both have an unnatural origin (space and micro oxygen mutation, respectively), whereas Kumonga is explicitly stated as being simply a giant spider and has been as big as it appeared since Riko's(?) father went on an exploration to the island many years prior to SoG, and noted the spider's size.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:37 pm

Kumonga, Ebirah, Manda, Baragon, Varan, and Anguirus are all monsters that fell to the series gradual power creep. The latter Showa monsters Gigan, Mechagodzilla, Hedorah, Megalon and maybe Titanosaurus are all monsters that have way more versatility and are way stronger.

If you want any indication how a fight would go between Kumonga and any post DAM monsters the comics have some great insight: Gigan gets caught in Kumonga's web but easily gets out with his eye laser which causes all the web to melt. In another comic Kumonga attacks monster x gung-ho with webbing before ripping the webbing off and ripping off Kumonga's legs.


The only big advantage Kumonga has is any flying kaiju. If Kumonga is a giant spider then it would make perfect sense for her to fight Mothra and Battra. Things could get pretty intense the instant the webbing touches the wings they'll be stuck and won't be able to move. Mothra falls to the ground and Kumonga sweeps in for the venom kill which is shown to be very powerful. I suspect other melee monsters without a reliable beam or easy way to cut out (Gigan's buzz saw) might fall into a trap. I could see King Kong and pretty much all the basic early kaiju falling to Kumonga.

Kumonga is a horrible melee attacker but there was that one cool scene where Kumonga got on all it's legs and body pressed Godzilla. It was brief but cool nonetheless.

Kumonga falls victim to the same fate as Ebirah. Both are te main villains of their movies but compared to past monsters like King Ghidorah, Rodan and Godzilla they just aren't intimidating. However if you think about it Kumonga was pretty powerful for what it was supposed to be doing in that film: it killed a Kamacuras (and would easily be able to do that to many more) plus it was definitely a threat to Minilla. And as I said earlier a lot of basic kaiju like Angurius could be a victim for Kumonga. It's not that Kumonga is weak, just that Godzilla was pretty much the worst possible foe Kumonga could ever possibly face and there's a power creep in the series.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby edgaguirus » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:41 pm

Against a tooth and claw kaiju, Kumonga would be a devastating foe. Web and venom would end the conflicy quickly.

Most of the beam kaiju would pose a problem, however. While Godzilla was being overwhelmed by the webbing for a moment, his beam did force Kumonga back, and then a combined beam attack turned it into barbecue. Stronger beams, like Megalon's horn beam or MG's multiple lasers, would have much better effect on the spider.
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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby The Godzilla Camp » Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:17 am

edgaguirus wrote:Against a tooth and claw kaiju, Kumonga would be a devastating foe. Web and venom would end the conflicy quickly.

Most of the beam kaiju would pose a problem, however. While Godzilla was being overwhelmed by the webbing for a moment, his beam did force Kumonga back, and then a combined beam attack turned it into barbecue. Stronger beams, like Megalon's horn beam or MG's multiple lasers, would have much better effect on the spider.


Now that you mention it - wouldn't it be amusing if Mecha-G 1993 fired the twin shock-harpoons at Kumonga and Kumonga in vain tries firing webbing but ends up getting a nasty shock eh?

Moguera24 wrote:^You bring up a lot of good points.

I guess to me I just can't see Kumonga getting in range for attacks without taking damage from the myriad of her opponents weapons.
Destoroyah is rather quick on the draw with his tail spike and that katana has quite a long range. Any of those could put some serious hurt on Kumonga.
Hedorah has a laser eye attack with as much range and damage as Godzilla breath. He can also change to flying form at the drop of a hat to escape danger.
Kumonga's webs won't do much good in trapping them, Hedorah is a living ball of organic-melting sludge, and Destoroyah has more spikes on him than a bad '90 comic book character. I could see both getting out of their trappings rather quickly.

In the end I think Kumonga is better off having an ally to support it in this situation, Kumo is very smart and fast, but would work better if teamed up with a powerhouse kaiju to support it and do damage.

For instance, if Goji and Kumo teamed up on Destoroyah, I could see Godzilla soaking up most of Des's attacks while Kumo jumps about and ambushes him from behind while Des is distracted with Godzilla, and webbing him up to slow him down. An ally like Godzilla would also have reliable ways to kill Destoroyah (bc I'm not so sure if the venom can do the trick).


Hello again! Apologies for the late reply from the past week but just wondering when you say Godzilla and Kumonga tag-teaming - but are we assuming Meltdown Godzilla 1995 atleast? Given if it was a regular healthy Godzilla - question is whether he could even deal as much damage to Destoroyah when in burning mode - and the fact couldn't DESTOROYAH just break down into dozens of 40-60 meter tall aggregates; half the amount swarms Kumonga - unless Kumonga can quickly web them all - and considering they'd outnumber it whilst the other half swarms Godzilla - and if Meltdown Godzilla 1995 had trouble when he was swarmed by them; they even managed to somewhat 'negate' his Spiral Rays; notice one of the Aggregates fires a Micro-Oxygen beam just when he's about to fire a Spiral Ray and it canceled it out somewhat ... and he had to collapse and unleash a Nuclear Pulse just to get rid of them ... but what if it wasn't Meltdown Godzilla? What if it was a regular Godzilla? I mean if Goji Junior - whilst he was able to survive an injection of Micro-Oxygen - it still did make him feel quite uncomfortable - and that was against an Aggregate Destoroyah - when he was dropped a thousand feet or so from the skies and then bombarded with Micro-Oxygen - he was down for the count until Godzilla 1995 Meltdown melted away ... and the fact what about the Laser Horn Katana? It certainly wasn't pleasant for Godzilla 1995 Meltdown - whilst he healed his injuries - he did for a moment bellow in pain and agony and whilst Destoroyah seemed to be gleefully enjoying a moment of sadism ... but what if it was a healthy Godzilla? Could he still recover or the Laser Horn Katana would have been more effective and devastating? Same with the Micro-Oxygen beams - given they killed Godzilla in the form of the Oxygen Destroyer in 1954 ... and Destoroyah is practically a living weapon of Oxygen Destroyer...and question is whether even webbing, poison stingers plus regular Atomic Ray Beams are really enough against an adult DESTOROYAH - and as long as you don't have extreme temperatures ... wouldn't it be still a tough fight then? Given interesting where you say DESTOROYAH has more spikes on him than a 90s comic book character - really? I didn't seem to see the spikes as really impressive - the only effective spikes were just his claws and the grappling tail ... and with the grappling tail - should it grapple Kumonga - couldn't Kumonga then try its luck poisoning the tail? Or that wouldn't work still and most likely is it possible Destoroyah's crustacean armor carapace is just too tough? Given it seemed to have no problems against Godzilla 1995 Meltdown's physical punches and blows; it was only after 3x Spiral Ray beams did the 2 pummels work ...

Hmm - but against Kumonga - whilst the Laser Horn Katana can work; don't you think its a tad bit too high to reach Kumonga? Given against Godzilla 1995 Meltdown he was 100 meters tall and Destoroyah is 120 meters tall and that was fairly close range which is alright but Kumonga - unless scaled to close to 100 meters in height or so ... couldn't Kumonga easily just evade the strike or the fact Kumonga in the Showa era was 45 meters tall ... thats only about the size of Goji Junior - well only slightly taller ...

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Re: Monster Discussion #22: Kumonga (Showa)

Postby edgaguirus » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:06 pm

The Godzilla Camp wrote:
edgaguirus wrote:Against a tooth and claw kaiju, Kumonga would be a devastating foe. Web and venom would end the conflicy quickly.

Most of the beam kaiju would pose a problem, however. While Godzilla was being overwhelmed by the webbing for a moment, his beam did force Kumonga back, and then a combined beam attack turned it into barbecue. Stronger beams, like Megalon's horn beam or MG's multiple lasers, would have much better effect on the spider.


Now that you mention it - wouldn't it be amusing if Mecha-G 1993 fired the twin shock-harpoons at Kumonga and Kumonga in vain tries firing webbing but ends up getting a nasty shock eh?

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Kaiju are just like people- giant, radioactive people.

Megalon went into a bar and saw Gigan. Megalon said, " Again? I thought you gave this up."
" What can I say," Gigan asked. " I'm hooked."


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