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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:32 am
by MaxRebo320
Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:So are some of the FX intentionally crappy to sell the comedic aspects of the film or are they just bad?

Kong's design was intentionally goofy in order to make him less frightening to children/look friendlier. The design just didn't translate too well to suit form (Disproportionate arms, lack of face articulation, etc.), even if I do appreciate what they were going for. The only other effects I would consider "bad" are some of the more overt splicing/blue screen shots, but I HIGHLY doubt those were intentional. The rest of the film's effects are either on-par with Toho's other stuff or above-average.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:04 pm
by Zarm
MaxRebo320 wrote:
Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:So are some of the FX intentionally crappy to sell the comedic aspects of the film or are they just bad?

Kong's design was intentionally goofy in order to make him less frightening to children/look friendlier. The design just didn't translate too well to suit form (Disproportionate arms, lack of face articulation, etc.), even if I do appreciate what they were going for. The only other effects I would consider "bad" are some of the more overt splicing/blue screen shots, but I HIGHLY doubt those were intentional. The rest of the film's effects are either on-par with Toho's other stuff or above-average.


Yeah, a lot of the stuff with the giant octopus was a bit rough (even then, that's mostly the lighting sloppiness of casting shadows on the bluescreen/rear-screen; everything else fits pretty well within the technological abilities of the time), but nothing else in the film at all looks bad to me, for the era.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:20 pm
by eabaker
Zarm wrote:
MaxRebo320 wrote:
Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:So are some of the FX intentionally crappy to sell the comedic aspects of the film or are they just bad?

Kong's design was intentionally goofy in order to make him less frightening to children/look friendlier. The design just didn't translate too well to suit form (Disproportionate arms, lack of face articulation, etc.), even if I do appreciate what they were going for. The only other effects I would consider "bad" are some of the more overt splicing/blue screen shots, but I HIGHLY doubt those were intentional. The rest of the film's effects are either on-par with Toho's other stuff or above-average.


Yeah, a lot of the stuff with the giant octopus was a bit rough (even then, that's mostly the lighting sloppiness of casting shadows on the bluescreen/rear-screen; everything else fits pretty well within the technological abilities of the time), but nothing else in the film at all looks bad to me, for the era.


And, really, between the octopus and Kong, they were going for a lot more direct human-to-monster contact than was normal for the series, which meant doing a lot more compositing work than they were accustomed to.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:24 pm
by Mr_Goji_and_Watch
A of the puppets are pretty bad. Those close ups of Kong's face while he's being flown to Mount Fuji or whenever we see Godzilla and Kong fighting from the distance are rough. I love a lot of the choreography and staging in the climatic fight but those moments always take me out a little bit.

Also thanks again Zarm for the subs.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:32 pm
by Zarm
My pleasure! Sooner or later, I'll actually get around to watching them myself! ;)

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:07 pm
by MaxRebo320
The "comedy" aspect of the film shines through a lot more with the proper subtitles. Aside from snappier dialogue, you also get pop culture references to stuff like Laurel and Hardy and Popeye.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:27 pm
by Tyrant_Lizard_King
That Kong doll sliding down the mountain makes me cringe hard every time I see it. Its stuff like that that Im talking about. Yes that Kong puppet is extremely horrendous as well, almost Mighty Peking Man levels of bad. Don't mind the overall suit thought.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:03 pm
by Goji
Living Corpse wrote:
Goji wrote:The notion that because Godzilla, an amphibious creature (which I just mentioned) doesn't surface implies that he "lost", is purely speculative. Maybe that was the intent, maybe it wasn't. It's obvious that Kong was meant to be the underdog in this film, so if the way the ending plays out is being construed as him "winning" by some people, then I suppose that makes enough sense. I don't know what the intent of the filmmakers was, though.

At the end of the day though, it really obviously doesn't matter. This is one of the greats, either way.


Yeah but let's be real here if Godzilla wasn't knocked out then falling in the water wouldn't have stopped the fight, he would have either surfaced to continue or pulled King Kong under the water.


Not necessarily. The movie had to end at some point, man. Additionally, nobody knows if Godzilla was "knocked out", only that he didn't surface.

That (now five month old) post wasn't me starting a dialogue on how the battle could have continued. It was about the speculative nature of the conclusions that people come to about the ending.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:13 pm
by MaxRebo320
I mean, there's always going to be an effect/sequence in any Tokusatsu movie from this time period that doesn't work. Sometimes its something minor like visible wires, other times its something long-lasting, like the Kong suit or just a poorly-crafted miniature. But it should be noted that sometimes (Certainly not always, but sometimes) effects that are unconvincing were done with the crew fully aware of such, but were done either because they were too fun not to do or would emit a laugh from the audience. The obviously-fake horse Baragon tramples over in FCTW is a good example of that. I'm not sure if the Kong and Godzilla dolls were intentionally shown off that way to make viewers laugh or are just an example of an effect not working, though for the record, they never took me out of the film much, if at all, especially given smaller dolls/puppets of monsters for certain shots are pretty commonplace in these movies.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:48 pm
by Living Corpse
Goji wrote:
Living Corpse wrote:
Goji wrote:The notion that because Godzilla, an amphibious creature (which I just mentioned) doesn't surface implies that he "lost", is purely speculative. Maybe that was the intent, maybe it wasn't. It's obvious that Kong was meant to be the underdog in this film, so if the way the ending plays out is being construed as him "winning" by some people, then I suppose that makes enough sense. I don't know what the intent of the filmmakers was, though.

At the end of the day though, it really obviously doesn't matter. This is one of the greats, either way.


Yeah but let's be real here if Godzilla wasn't knocked out then falling in the water wouldn't have stopped the fight, he would have either surfaced to continue or pulled King Kong under the water.


Not necessarily. The movie had to end at some point, man. Additionally, nobody knows if Godzilla was "knocked out", only that he didn't surface.

That (now five month old) post wasn't me starting a dialogue on how the battle could have continued. It was about the speculative nature of the conclusions that people come to about the ending.


That's my point, if the movie wasn't at the end, would Godzilla really have just stopped fighting because he fell in the water?

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:25 am
by Goji
Goji wrote: That (now five month old) post wasn't me starting a dialogue on how the battle could have continued.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:30 pm
by edgaguirus
MaxRebo320 wrote:I mean, there's always going to be an effect/sequence in any Tokusatsu movie from this time period that doesn't work. Sometimes its something minor like visible wires, other times its something long-lasting, like the Kong suit or just a poorly-crafted miniature. But it should be noted that sometimes (Certainly not always, but sometimes) effects that are unconvincing were done with the crew fully aware of such, but were done either because they were too fun not to do or would emit a laugh from the audience. The obviously-fake horse Baragon tramples over in FCTW is a good example of that. I'm not sure if the Kong and Godzilla dolls were intentionally shown off that way to make viewers laugh or are just an example of an effect not working, though for the record, they never took me out of the film much, if at all, especially given smaller dolls/puppets of monsters for certain shots are pretty commonplace in these movies.


Given the comic aspect of the film, that slide fits right in. Like the body slam in G vs Meg, it made for an interesting and amusing sequence.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:01 pm
by Grievous
So...its a "Japanese Everyman Comedy" featuring kaiju right?

Ehh...

The final battle is still pretty sweet.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:44 pm
by MechaGoji Bro7503
So Ishiro Honda got injured in the middle of filming this. In the time they spent filming the whole part with Godzilla attacking the train and Kenji Sahara's character speeding on his motorcycle - the crew took the safe way up the mountain to the shooting scene, while Honda decided to take a shortcut and accidentally fell quite a bit, and the crew scrambled to find him.
He would end up with a sprained ankle and had to wear a sling for a bit. Yet he only took a day off of filming! I really admire him, he's got this likeable thing about him that I've gathered from his films and reading about him.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:07 am
by Grievous
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:So Ishiro Honda got injured in the middle of filming this. In the time they spent filming the whole part with Godzilla attacking the train and Kenji Sahara's character speeding on his motorcycle - the crew took the safe way up the mountain to the shooting scene, while Honda decided to take a shortcut and accidentally fell quite a bit, and the crew scrambled to find him.
He would end up with a sprained ankle and had to wear a sling for a bit. Yet he only took a day off of filming! I really admire him, he's got this likeable thing about him that I've gathered from his films and reading about him.

Apparently Honda loved hiking & that's why many of his films feature a "hiking" scene.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:47 am
by MechaGoji Bro7503
Grievous wrote:
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:So Ishiro Honda got injured in the middle of filming this. In the time they spent filming the whole part with Godzilla attacking the train and Kenji Sahara's character speeding on his motorcycle - the crew took the safe way up the mountain to the shooting scene, while Honda decided to take a shortcut and accidentally fell quite a bit, and the crew scrambled to find him.
He would end up with a sprained ankle and had to wear a sling for a bit. Yet he only took a day off of filming! I really admire him, he's got this likeable thing about him that I've gathered from his films and reading about him.

Apparently Honda loved hiking & that's why many of his films feature a "hiking" scene.

Very true. It's a cool little detail, I love it when directors include something about themselves in their films.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:10 pm
by edgaguirus
Honda was a dedicated director.

I wonder if Akame's fall in WotG was a little allusion to his own?

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:03 am
by SuperPawnageGigan
I love this movie. One of my favs, I love the suit, The final battle was amazing, And Godzilla clapping i love how he claps.

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:06 am
by eabaker
SuperPawnageGigan wrote:And Godzilla clapping i love how he claps.


Yes! And that kind of hollow, coconut sound it makes when he does it!

Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:35 pm
by KingKaiju
I never realized how funny this film was, until I saw the Japanese version a few years ago. Looking back at the US version, it makes sense as to why certain things look extra cheesy. I feel like they tried taking a movie that was almost a parody, and tried making it more serious than it needed to be. Some of the humor is great! I also get the impression that Toho was stilll king of unsure how to handle Godzilla and Kong, hence why they went the comedic route.