Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby Space Hunter M » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:18 pm

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LSD Jellyfish wrote:Just out of curiosity, how are the subtitles garbage?

I've always heard they're just completely made up at many points and not that accurate to the Japanese dialogue. I still find that they diverge pretty drastically from the dub script, and I personally still prefer watching the Japanese version with bad fansubs than watching the US version.

Trust me, the "translation" hurts the overall experience of the film. You miss out on the slier wisecracks and gems like the pop culture references to Laurel & Hardy and Popeye.

Mr_Goji_and_Watch wrote:Yeah they reportedly just made up lines. You can probably ask SpaceHunterM for more detailed information, they were the first person I saw ever mention it and give an example of it.


Here's a brief example. You don't have to be a master of Japanese to discern that what's being said in the VDK script is just dead wrong. This brief section of full of basic stuff like "氷" (kōri), "北極" (hokkyoku) and "つまらん" (tsumaran) that pertains to the plot. I don't know how the subbers missed this.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby MaxRebo320 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:44 pm

I've been aware of the poor "guess subs" for some time that are still in circulation to this day, though I am curious as to where one can go for the more accurate translation. I remember hearing that the subs supplied by Tokyo Monsters way back when were a lot more accurate (As I believe Jim Ballard is a Japanese speaker), but I can't clarify. I also know that German DVD has an official proper translation, though in German, of course.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby Zarm » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:08 am

Dang. How does one tell if one has an accurate copy or these made-up versions?
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby Terasawa » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:03 am

Zarm wrote:Dang. How does one tell if one has an accurate copy or these made-up versions?


Watch the video above, if your copy has that amino acid nonsense then you've got a copy with the bad bootleg subtitles.

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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby KaijuCanuck » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:50 pm

I'm glad I looked in this thread, because I'm halfway through the Japanese version right now. It's definitely the bootlegged sub (still a better movie than the American version though). We really need an official DVD/Blue Ray release in the west.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby Maritonic » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:52 pm

KaijuCanuck wrote:I'm glad I looked in this thread, because I'm halfway through the Japanese version right now. It's definitely the bootlegged sub (still a better movie than the American version though). We really need an official DVD/Blue Ray release in the west.


Yeah sadly I have the bootlegged subs, too, but it's still superior in every way to the American version.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby KaijuCanuck » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:38 pm

Maritonic wrote:
KaijuCanuck wrote:I'm glad I looked in this thread, because I'm halfway through the Japanese version right now. It's definitely the bootlegged sub (still a better movie than the American version though). We really need an official DVD/Blue Ray release in the west.


Yeah sadly I have the bootlegged subs, too, but it's still superior in every way to the American version.


I've streamed the japanese version before a long time ago (probably the bootleg), but I've seen the American version much more recently. It's insane how bad it is compared to the Japanese. For one thing, the fact that it's a comedy is completely lost.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby MaxRebo320 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:33 pm

KaijuCanuck wrote:I've streamed the japanese version before a long time ago (probably the bootleg), but I've seen the American version much more recently. It's insane how bad it is compared to the Japanese. For one thing, the fact that it's a comedy is completely lost.

COMPLETELY lost? I'm not quite sure about that. A lot of gags are removed (Particularly involving the leads) and the newly filmed UN scenes are really dry and humorless (at least intentionally), but to say it removes all traces of humor just isn't true. Perhaps enough to not regard it as a comedy (Not that I'd completely regard the original as one either), but hardly enough to say it doesn't have a lot of funny moments.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby KaijuCanuck » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:35 pm

MaxRebo320 wrote:
KaijuCanuck wrote:I've streamed the japanese version before a long time ago (probably the bootleg), but I've seen the American version much more recently. It's insane how bad it is compared to the Japanese. For one thing, the fact that it's a comedy is completely lost.

COMPLETELY lost? I'm not quite sure about that. A lot of gags are removed (Particularly involving the leads) and the newly filmed UN scenes are really dry and humorless (at least intentionally), but to say it removes all traces of humor just isn't true. Perhaps enough to not regard it as a comedy (Not that I'd completely regard the original as one either), but hardly enough to say it doesn't have a lot of funny moments.


I guess that’s true. The shorter guy in the expedition is still comically scared, and the boss is hilarious no matter what he’s saying. But they take out enough that it just becomes a sci fi movie, to me anyway. The Japanese version is funny pretty consistently.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby GojiraGuy2016 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:03 am

Yes, our German release by Anolis in their Kaiju Classics line includes the Japanese version of KING KONG VS. GODZILLA.
Since this is probably the only official release in the west of the Japanese version, I guess you guys practise your German.

Of course I support you when a publisher annouces a DVD+BD release for the United States. You should not being left alone.

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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby Zarm » Sat May 19, 2018 9:36 am

Terasawa wrote:
Zarm wrote:Dang. How does one tell if one has an accurate copy or these made-up versions?


Watch the video above, if your copy has that amino acid nonsense then you've got a copy with the bad bootleg subtitles.


Son of a gun. Finally checked. Amino acids aplenty.

Now the question is... is there a source for good subtitles out there, which an enterprising fellow could apply to a rip of his worthless DVD to produce an accurate version? :) (Actually, if I'm going to be in fan-editing mode, that reminds me... was there a general consensus that editing on one of the scenes- the submarine emergence, I think it was?- was superior in the U.S. version?)
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby LegendZilla » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:03 pm

This movie gets a bad rap IMHO. What most people don’t understand is that (at least the original Japanese version) was intended to be a parody of the Kaiju genre, kind of like how Airplane! (1980) was to the disaster genre.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby UltramanGoji » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:27 am

LegendZilla wrote:This movie gets a bad rap IMHO. What most people don’t understand is that (at least the original Japanese version) was intended to be a parody of the Kaiju genre, kind of like how Airplane! (1980) was to the disaster genre.


How can it be a parody of a genre that, at the time of filming, was less than ten years old? It's a satire of Japanese consumerism and part of the salaryman comedy genre that was popular at the time.

Also, it's "rep" dude. Bad rep. As in, reputation.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby Zarm » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:47 am

A 'bad rap' (or 'bum rap') is also a phrase, originating from a 'rap sheet' for criminal charges- in this case, implying trumped-up charges or false accusations.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby Godzillian » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:58 am

How anyone could think this film has a bad rep is beyond me, its frequently discusses as one of the greatest films in the franchise by fans and GA
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby eabaker » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:01 am

Zarm wrote:A 'bad rap' (or 'bum rap') is also a phrase, originating from a 'rap sheet' for criminal charges- in this case, implying trumped-up charges or false accusations.


I think you're being generous in your use of the word "also." "Bad rap" is a phrase; "bad rep" is a corruption of "bad rap."

On the question of whether or not the movie is a parody of the kaiju genre, I'd hasten to point out that the Godzilla thread is played pretty straight.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby UltramanGoji » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:40 am

eabaker wrote:On the question of whether or not the movie is a parody of the kaiju genre, I'd hasten to point out that the Godzilla thread is played pretty straight.


Yes, a parody would imply that it takes elements of the kaiju genre and makes fun of/satirizes them. KKVG does not satirize anything about kaiju films themselves.

I think people like to slap the word "parody" on any genre film that's comedic in tone, even when nothing in the film is parodying that genre. KKVG is a comedy, but it isn't a satirical look on anything except Japanese consumerism.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby edgaguirus » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:20 pm

It's all in how you look at it, I suppose. An American audience would likely not notice the satire or statements being made about Japan's rampant commercialism. They'd see the guy always complaining about his corns and the clown of a boss, and assume the comic label.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:15 pm

God damnit. My version has the amino acids too...

Looking online for the proper version, but still no luck. Anyone have any idea where to look?
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Postby Zarm » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:25 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:My version has the amino acids too...

Looking online for the proper version, but still no luck. Anyone have any idea where to look?


I got a hold of the subtitles for SpacehunterM. I can share them if you've got a video file to pair them with. As for a version where they've already been applied... Not yet. Waiting for my DVD to arrive in the mail from Germany. ;)

Bear in mind that the 'proper' subtitles are actually fansubs, an English translation of German subtitles that were apparently accurately translated to German from the original Japanese. But considering that there is at least one joke that is dependent on the Japanese language to work, it seems authentic to me...
Last edited by Zarm on Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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