Talkback: Gorath (1962)

For the discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released before 1980.
User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11144
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby eabaker » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:31 am

I think you guys are mostly ignoring the key aspect of PitchBlackProgress's question, which is why specifically American fans obsess over these monsters.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
Mr. Yellow
Interpol Agent
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:12 am
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby Mr. Yellow » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:46 am

Well...I'm from America and I'm explaining why I like them? *shrug*
"Monsters are tragic beings. They are born too tall, too strong, too heavy. They are not evil by choice. That is their tragedy. They do not attack people because they want to, but because of their size and strength, mankind has no other choice but to defend himself. After several stories such as this, people end up having a kind of affection for the monsters. They end up caring about them." - Ishiro Honda

User avatar
Kaiju-King42
Kwaidan
Posts: 5768
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: Monster Island

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:18 pm

eabaker wrote:I think you guys are mostly ignoring the key aspect of PitchBlackProgress's question, which is why specifically American fans obsess over these monsters.


Same reason any other western fan might obsess over them? I don't think that key aspect is relevant at all.
Godzillian wrote:
Godzilla21 wrote:What is up with the American trope of hide the monster?

Jaws happened


ernesth100 wrote:
Ryguy wrote:When the new director is announced, I guarantee this fanbase will be torn through the middle...

We're always split down the middle. TK is like a giant buttcrack.


Anno wrote:never forget tadpole :godzilla:




User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11144
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby eabaker » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:44 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
eabaker wrote:I think you guys are mostly ignoring the key aspect of PitchBlackProgress's question, which is why specifically American fans obsess over these monsters.


Same reason any other western fan might obsess over them? I don't think that key aspect is relevant at all.


Fine, sorry for being unintentionally America-centric. The question of why Western fans in particular is still the one on the table, and is not really being addressed.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
Ivo-goji
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2672
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:54 am

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby Ivo-goji » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:02 am

Can anyone prove Japanese fans don't obsess over obscure kaiju? Cuz I'm 100% sure they do too.
Resized Image

Kaiju-King42 wrote:Welcome to Toho Kingdom, where every conceivable opinion, no matter how outlandish or unpopular, is a possibility among the population.

User avatar
Mr_Goji_and_Watch
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2711
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:34 pm
Location: キノプレックス
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:00 am

Japanese fans don't seem to raise a fit with the lack of monsters in the anime movies like we do over here so I'd assume that they also don't obsess over one off monsters.
Moogabunga wrote:Ive said it before and I'll gladly say it again, this is going to be the best Godzilla film ever and more importantly, its going to be the film that truly makes Godzilla mainstream (and cool)

SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:I'm glad to be a fake fan.

edgaguirus
Kwaidan
Posts: 5509
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:25 pm

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby edgaguirus » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:02 pm

It might be cultural. What one culture values another may not. These obscure kaiju may not interest Japan as much as it does us.
Kaiju are just like people- giant, radioactive people.

Megalon went into a bar and saw Gigan. Megalon said, " Again? I thought you gave this up."
" What can I say," Gigan asked. " I'm hooked."

User avatar
Maritonic
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6054
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:26 am
Location: UberRichNewYork

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby Maritonic » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:12 pm

I don't know if "obsess" is the right word, but we are getting a Varan x-plus very shortly? I'd assume the Godzilla/Kaiju-Fans (kaiju groupies) in Japan enjoy the obscure oddities of this franchise as much as any other fan would.

I think it depends on how deep in the fandom you are. Take someone like Batman for example. If you're super into Batman, well read, and well versed in all things Batman (as all of us here are with Godzilla/kaiju), you may occasionally go "Man, I wish we got to see some more of King Tut."

Personally, I don't think Varan, the Gargantuas, or Moguera should be lumped into this. They were at least featured in their films. Someone like Maguma/Magma is there for a moment and doesn't serve the narrative. But again; he's an oddity. So people are fascinated by him. I don't think that's exclusive to Western audiences, I think that's just what we're exposed to.

And yeah, Skele-turtle is a joke as is Giant Condor (I skreeonking hope).
Resized Image

Everything Will Proceed Cyclically

goji89 wrote:So.......are we gonna Kinkshame the skreeonking birds or what?

User avatar
Zarm
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4909
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: USA, East Coast
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby Zarm » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:00 pm

I dunno... the Condor is a joke, but I am honestly intrigued by Skeleturtle. It hints at this whole other fantasy-creature ecosystem on the island we never get to see...
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:


Winner of the last-ever(?) TK Fantasy Match tournament.

#ProLife

The Zone Fighter campaign is funded and complete, with translations in progress! PM me if you want to be part of the Facebook updates group.

Maranatha!

User avatar
MaxRebo320
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2224
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:56 pm
Location: albaquarky
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby MaxRebo320 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:13 pm

I think Maguma/Magma is fun, albeit very out-of-place, mostly because he's a giant skreeonking walrus. I wouldn't have been against him being included in DAM (even if he probably wouldn't have done much) or whatever, but the fact he's pretty much all people tend to talk about in Gorath, when there is so much more, is pretty upsetting.

Wanna see more of Maguma so bad? Watch episode 27 of Ultra Q.
Last edited by MaxRebo320 on Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Beta Capsule Reviews - Your Guide to Ultraman & other Tokusatsu episode-by-episode!
https://betacapsulereviews.wordpress.com
three wrote:leave me be maxrebo! damn you and your ability to play the game here....

User avatar
UltramanGoji
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 14034
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:40 am
Location: Western New York
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby UltramanGoji » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:44 pm

MaxRebo320 wrote:but the fact he's pretty much all people tend to talk about in Gorath, when there is so much more, is pretty upsetting.


This is one of the reasons why I kinda dislike his inclusion in the film. He's a beautifully pure tokusatsu design, but he has no business being in the movie other than a small boost at the box office. The rest of the movie is so much better.
Image

User avatar
MaxRebo320
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2224
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:56 pm
Location: albaquarky
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby MaxRebo320 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:58 pm

I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying the more obscure or under-utilized monsters, but the way in which fandumb plays them up as "lost classics" that are bound to return someday is weird. Like, I enjoy Maguma for the reasons I listed above, and while it WOULD be fun to see him return in some form (Likely an extended cameo ala Kamoebas in Tokyo SOS), I don't lose sleep over it.

But look, here we are again talking about the giant walrus that was added in at the last minute over everything else in the film. Pretty sad.
Last edited by MaxRebo320 on Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Beta Capsule Reviews - Your Guide to Ultraman & other Tokusatsu episode-by-episode!
https://betacapsulereviews.wordpress.com
three wrote:leave me be maxrebo! damn you and your ability to play the game here....

User avatar
Mr. Yellow
Interpol Agent
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:12 am
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby Mr. Yellow » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:28 pm

I think you guys are overthinking it. It's a thrill when one of these obscurities is somehow suddenly remembered and included in something official. Like seeing Gezora in the comics, Kamoebas in Tokyo S.O.S or Baragon in GMK. There's been other instances of creators wanting to use other monsters as well.
"Monsters are tragic beings. They are born too tall, too strong, too heavy. They are not evil by choice. That is their tragedy. They do not attack people because they want to, but because of their size and strength, mankind has no other choice but to defend himself. After several stories such as this, people end up having a kind of affection for the monsters. They end up caring about them." - Ishiro Honda

User avatar
Maritonic
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6054
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:26 am
Location: UberRichNewYork

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby Maritonic » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:09 am

Mr. Yellow wrote:I think you guys are overthinking it. It's a thrill when one of these obscurities is somehow suddenly remembered and included in something official. Like seeing Gezora in the comics, Kamoebas in Tokyo S.O.S or Baragon in GMK..


Right, this is kind of where I come from with it.

If they were to show some Monster Island in a future film and Maguma was chilling there, my reaction would be "oh man, that's cool!" not "ugh that skreeonking walrus from Gorath that people keep talking about."

I think there are just a handful of obscure, random kaiju that people enjoy. Not much wrong with that.
Resized Image

Everything Will Proceed Cyclically

goji89 wrote:So.......are we gonna Kinkshame the skreeonking birds or what?

User avatar
Living Corpse
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 10180
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:49 pm

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby Living Corpse » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:29 am

Gorath isn't a kaiju film, but it is a film with a kaiju in it.

That's what makes this otherwise straightforward film odd. If it had it's own film where it's the focus, Maguma would be the biggest problem, but since the world is ending the world literally has bigger problems than some giant monster.

TLDR: Just cause your film has a monster in it doesn't mean it's a monster film.
Image

User avatar
Maritonic
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6054
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:26 am
Location: UberRichNewYork

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby Maritonic » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:31 am

Living Corpse wrote:Gorath isn't a kaiju film, but it is a film with a kaiju in it.

That's what makes this otherwise straightforward film odd. If it had it's own film where it's the focus, Maguma would be the biggest problem, but since the world is ending the world literally has bigger problems than some giant monster.

TLDR: Just cause your film has a monster in it doesn't mean it's a monster film.


Is anyone really claiming it's a monster film, though?
Resized Image

Everything Will Proceed Cyclically

goji89 wrote:So.......are we gonna Kinkshame the skreeonking birds or what?

User avatar
Mr. Yellow
Interpol Agent
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:12 am
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby Mr. Yellow » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:47 am

Maritonic wrote:
Living Corpse wrote:Gorath isn't a kaiju film, but it is a film with a kaiju in it.

That's what makes this otherwise straightforward film odd. If it had it's own film where it's the focus, Maguma would be the biggest problem, but since the world is ending the world literally has bigger problems than some giant monster.

TLDR: Just cause your film has a monster in it doesn't mean it's a monster film.


Is anyone really claiming it's a monster film, though?


It’s weird but I kinda struggle with this. When classifying something as “giant monster movie” to me the monster has to be mostly integral to the plot, most of the time. But then I look at things like most of Harryhausen stuff and rethink it...

It’s also why I don’t place the newer Sharksaurus vs. Croctopus, etc into the same genre. Not sure why,
"Monsters are tragic beings. They are born too tall, too strong, too heavy. They are not evil by choice. That is their tragedy. They do not attack people because they want to, but because of their size and strength, mankind has no other choice but to defend himself. After several stories such as this, people end up having a kind of affection for the monsters. They end up caring about them." - Ishiro Honda

User avatar
Maritonic
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6054
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:26 am
Location: UberRichNewYork

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby Maritonic » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:49 am

Mr. Yellow wrote:
Maritonic wrote:
Living Corpse wrote:Gorath isn't a kaiju film, but it is a film with a kaiju in it.

That's what makes this otherwise straightforward film odd. If it had it's own film where it's the focus, Maguma would be the biggest problem, but since the world is ending the world literally has bigger problems than some giant monster.

TLDR: Just cause your film has a monster in it doesn't mean it's a monster film.


Is anyone really claiming it's a monster film, though?


It’s weird but I kinda struggle with this. When classifying something as “giant monster movie” to me the monster has to be mostly integral to the plot, most of the time. But then I look at things like most of Harryhausen stuff and rethink it...

It’s also why I don’t place the newer Sharksaurus vs. Croctopus, etc into the same genre. Not sure why,


I meant right now within the confines of the conversation.
Resized Image

Everything Will Proceed Cyclically

goji89 wrote:So.......are we gonna Kinkshame the skreeonking birds or what?

User avatar
UltramanGoji
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 14034
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:40 am
Location: Western New York
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby UltramanGoji » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:14 pm

Maritonic wrote:
Mr. Yellow wrote:I think you guys are overthinking it. It's a thrill when one of these obscurities is somehow suddenly remembered and included in something official. Like seeing Gezora in the comics, Kamoebas in Tokyo S.O.S or Baragon in GMK..


Right, this is kind of where I come from with it.

If they were to show some Monster Island in a future film and Maguma was chilling there, my reaction would be "oh man, that's cool!" not "ugh that skreeonking walrus from Gorath that people keep talking about."

I think there are just a handful of obscure, random kaiju that people enjoy. Not much wrong with that.


I mean, I'd have the same reaction too. It's just that Gorath is a really good film and anytime I hear people talking about it, it's only the Maguma scenes. Kind of a "Really?" moment.
Image

User avatar
szmigiel
Interpol Agent
Posts: 552
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:54 am
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Gorath (1962)

Postby szmigiel » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:59 am

Gorath is my favorite Toho space epics. I would like to say without a kaiju, but obviously I can't. I like the overall story, the fact there are no villains to speak of, just characters doing heroic things to help save mankind. Sure moving the planet with giant thrusters is crony, but they do present it as a desperate plan, and it wrecks all sorts of havoc. So even though it is a corny and unrealistic, they present it in a believable way.

I don't hate the scenes with Maguma but they are not necessary, they feel like padding. I don't think the English language loses anything by cutting it, however it is just a bit confusing trying to figure out what the characters are doing. Maguma is the most unnecessary kaiju in any Toho film. Manda is at least a threat to the Atragon, and fits into the film a bit better.

As for fans having devotions to some of the lesser seen kaiju, this is common in any fandom. When you deep dive into a fandom there is always aspects that fans would like to have seen more developed. In wrestling terms everyone knows the main eventers and they have plenty of fans. But the more hardcore fans always have the midcarders and young talent they want to see pushed and become a bigger part of the promotion.


Return to “Showa Series (1930's-1970's)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests