Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

For the discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released before 1980.
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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby Grimlock#1 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:55 pm

So, in light of the recent update to King Ghidorah's bio on the main site, what's everyone's reaction to the fact that there were two King Ghidorah in the Showa Universe? IMO, I'm a bit surprised and confused. I mean, there wasn't any really conflicting information present in any of the movies that made it appear that there was more than one Ghidorah (Zone Fighter might have elaborated on this, but since I've never seen episodes from it I wouldn't know).
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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby tbeasley » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:30 am

Honestly one of my issues with the main site is how it goes out of its way to cite every single reference book published over the years regarding the franchise as if all are gospel and coherent with one another. That way you get power listings and abilities that didn't even appear in film (UNUSED) and whatnot... it's just bloated and messy and I wish they'd just stick to what's shown on screen.
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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby GigaBowserG » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:01 am

tbeasley wrote:Honestly one of my issues with the main site is how it goes out of its way to cite every single reference book published over the years regarding the franchise as if all are gospel and coherent with one another. That way you get power listings and abilities that didn't even appear in film (UNUSED) and whatnot... it's just bloated and messy and I wish they'd just stick to what's shown on screen.


I can see how that'd be a turn off if you're strictly looking for movie info, but I can't deny, these new details from books and other media are really enjoyable to me, like Gigan's unused eye laser, or anatomy notes like King Ghidorah's crescent horn being able to detect life just so it can eradicate it. Baragon raised by Rodan? Also not necessary trivia, but I still love hearing about it.

So far, I believe only a handful of monsters fall under the "N/A" or "UNUSED" moves category, and a majority of bios tend to remain strictly faithful to the movies without adding too much fluff from books.
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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby Arbok » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:26 am

tbeasley wrote:Honestly one of my issues with the main site is how it goes out of its way to cite every single reference book published over the years regarding the franchise as if all are gospel and coherent with one another. That way you get power listings and abilities that didn't even appear in film (UNUSED) and whatnot... it's just bloated and messy and I wish they'd just stick to what's shown on screen.


Yeah we have changed stances over the years. We used to list no powers for the Millennium Hedorah because it didn't demonstrate any in the movie. We have since gone the unused route, which I enjoy more as if you want to just stick to what's on screen you can ignore the unused portions while those who want to dig deeper can.

We also try to locate a variety of sources, and will note when something is overtly conflicting. It is hard, though, as a lot of sources just clump things together in very abridged manners (Showa Mothra is one of the worst offenders, since there are three Larvas with different stats but are often clumped together), while others go into more depth.
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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby SpaceG92 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:56 pm

GigaBowserG wrote:
tbeasley wrote:Honestly one of my issues with the main site is how it goes out of its way to cite every single reference book published over the years regarding the franchise as if all are gospel and coherent with one another. That way you get power listings and abilities that didn't even appear in film (UNUSED) and whatnot... it's just bloated and messy and I wish they'd just stick to what's shown on screen.


I can see how that'd be a turn off if you're strictly looking for movie info, but I can't deny, these new details from books and other media are really enjoyable to me, like Gigan's unused eye laser, or anatomy notes like King Ghidorah's crescent horn being able to detect life just so it can eradicate it. Baragon raised by Rodan? Also not necessary trivia, but I still love hearing about it.

So far, I believe only a handful of monsters fall under the "N/A" or "UNUSED" moves category, and a majority of bios tend to remain strictly faithful to the movies without adding too much fluff from books.

I don't have a problem with the N/A unused either. I actually love it. Some good bits of lore information that probably would have went unnoticed if not for a translator and someone getting a sourced compendium. Personally, Toho's stats and whatnot have always been all over the darn place so why not add some world building material? Sorta like those lovable Star Wars Cross Sections that were the greatest thing ever.

You know, kinda thinking about it. Radar horn would kinda make sense for a space being.

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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby edgaguirus » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:01 pm

New information is always useful to understanding a character, as movies don't always go into details. When presented with things that seem confusing or conflicting, it can help to apply a little common sense; Ask yourself if it sounds real, or is just something someone invented to try and explain something. It makes these things easier for me.
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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby JAGzilla » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:58 pm

King Ghidorah really is one of Toho's great creations. Design-wise, he was huge, imposing, and dramatic, instantly obvious as a Big Bad. But while he was complex, with three horned heads, two massive wings, two legs, and a forked tail, he still managed to have an elegant simplicity to him, not appearing over-designed like some of the later villains. His powers were also relatively limited, consisting simply of a beam from each mouth and hurricane winds from his wings, and yet that was all he needed to be a believable planet-killer and more than a match for Godzilla in his initial appearance. And then there was his roar, that high-pitched whistle-y cackle sort of sound that could almost be non-threatening and even ridiculous, and yet fits its owner perfectly.

There's a movement to kind of downplay Ghidorah these days, call him overrated, and we're all tired of seeing him return again and again while Toho ignores most of its villain roster, but... it's hard to deny that he deserves some appreciation.

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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby MaxRebo320 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:20 pm

IIRC, the Garogas claim Ghidorah to be their creation, so um, maybe they temporarily lent their version of the best to the Nebula M Spacehunters as a test-run of sorts?

In all seriousness though, I don't really buy the whole "two Ghidorahs" thing.
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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby LockBite » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:19 pm

King Ghidorah is probably the most overhyped villain I’ve ever loved. His design is awesome, his cackle, his lightning bolts, the golden scales- a truly iconic onscreen presence. But then he just disappoints in battle. I mean, he’s a worthy adversary in his first movie, but then gets significantly diminished by his Planet X defeat, and by the time DAM rolls around, I actually feel sorry for him.

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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby Dr. Professor » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:12 pm

LockBite wrote:King Ghidorah is probably the most overhyped villain I’ve ever loved. His design is awesome, his cackle, his lightning bolts, the golden scales- a truly iconic onscreen presence. But then he just disappoints in battle. I mean, he’s a worthy adversary in his first movie, but then gets significantly diminished by his Planet X defeat, and by the time DAM rolls around, I actually feel sorry for him.

I never considered him to actually be defeated on Planet X though. I always assumed the Xilliens just called him away from the fight to make it look like he lost.
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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:37 am

Dr. Professor wrote:
LockBite wrote:King Ghidorah is probably the most overhyped villain I’ve ever loved. His design is awesome, his cackle, his lightning bolts, the golden scales- a truly iconic onscreen presence. But then he just disappoints in battle. I mean, he’s a worthy adversary in his first movie, but then gets significantly diminished by his Planet X defeat, and by the time DAM rolls around, I actually feel sorry for him.

I never considered him to actually be defeated on Planet X though. I always assumed the Xilliens just called him away from the fight to make it look like he lost.

That’s actually exactly what happened. The Xians were just putting on a show for Glen and Fuj.
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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby Zarm » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:43 pm

Well, we have a partial answer as to what King Ghidorah was doing between 1973 and 1999... Commercials!

https://youtu.be/UQ3kAqtDWyU
(Sorry, not sure why the Youtube embed isn't working...

I demanded this be added to the official appearances list, and power set, on the TohoKingdom site. I am okay with this being the actual only canon appearance of the second, weaker King Ghidorah. ;)
Last edited by Zarm on Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:59 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby Maritonic » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:51 pm

Zarm wrote:Well, we have a partial answer as to what King Ghidorah was doing between 1973 and 1999... Commercials!

https://youtu.be/UQ3kAqtDWyU
(Sorry, not sure why the Youtube embed isn't working...

I demanded this be added to the official appearances list, and power set, on the TohoKingdom site. I am okay with this being the actual only canon appearance of the second, weaker King Ghidorah. ;)


Definitely the only appearance of the weaker Ghidorah.

How the hell did you find this?
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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby Dr. Professor » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:24 pm

Zarm wrote:Well, we have a partial answer as to what King Ghidorah was doing between 1973 and 1999... Commercials!

https://youtu.be/UQ3kAqtDWyU
(Sorry, not sure why the Youtube embed isn't working...

I demanded this be added to the official appearances list, and power set, on the TohoKingdom site. I am okay with this being the actual only canon appearance of the second, weaker King Ghidorah. ;)

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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby UltramanGoji » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:36 pm

Maritonic wrote:
Zarm wrote:Well, we have a partial answer as to what King Ghidorah was doing between 1973 and 1999... Commercials!

https://youtu.be/UQ3kAqtDWyU
(Sorry, not sure why the Youtube embed isn't working...

I demanded this be added to the official appearances list, and power set, on the TohoKingdom site. I am okay with this being the actual only canon appearance of the second, weaker King Ghidorah. ;)


Definitely the only appearance of the weaker Ghidorah.

How the hell did you find this?


Not him, but I remember reading about it in Godzilla On My Mind.
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Re: Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

Postby Zarm » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:42 pm

Maritonic wrote:
Zarm wrote:Well, we have a partial answer as to what King Ghidorah was doing between 1973 and 1999... Commercials!

https://youtu.be/UQ3kAqtDWyU
(Sorry, not sure why the Youtube embed isn't working...

I demanded this be added to the official appearances list, and power set, on the TohoKingdom site. I am okay with this being the actual only canon appearance of the second, weaker King Ghidorah. ;)


Definitely the only appearance of the weaker Ghidorah.

How the hell did you find this?


My wife loves the 80s, so I made her a compilation disc of 80s tv commercials. In watching it, we just saw this at random. Definitely did a double-take. :)
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