Toho Kingdom

LSD Jellyfish wrote:Save the Earth is one of the all time catchiest songs
And it’s not ham fisted, because it fits in with all the protest and environemenral music from that era.

I said it could be seen as ham fisted by others(like at first glance), but I don't think it is. Thanks for sharing all those posters by the way, and yeah looks like everything matches with what is seen in the film. What do you think about the ghost people? Are they supposed to represent the older generations looking down on the youth movement?

I rewatched it, and I enjoyed it. I thought it was weird that no one reacts to the uncle being killed by Hedorah, and I noticed that Godzilla unintentionally causes the death of people in two different scenes while combating Hedorah. Those guys in that warehouse got sludged on when Godzilla was throwing Hedorah around, and in the final battle Godzilla jumps on Hedorah which knocks them both onto a JSDF truck. Interesting since this is the one where "Godzilla becomes a full on superhero", but he's a giant monster so ya know; people being harmed in the fights did bring it down to Earth though.

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:

LSD Jellyfish wrote:Save the Earth is one of the all time catchiest songs
And it’s not ham fisted, because it fits in with all the protest and environemenral music from that era.

I said it could be seen as ham fisted by others(like at first glance), but I don't think it is. Thanks for sharing all those posters by the way, and yeah looks like everything matches with what is seen in the film. What do you think about the ghost people? Are they supposed to represent the older generations looking down on the youth movement?

I rewatched it, and I enjoyed it. I thought it was weird that no one reacts to the uncle being killed by Hedorah, and I noticed that Godzilla unintentionally causes the death of people in two different scenes while combating Hedorah. Those guys in that warehouse got sludged on when Godzilla was throwing Hedorah around, and in the final battle Godzilla jumps on Hedorah which knocks them both onto a JSDF truck. Interesting since this is the one where "Godzilla becomes a full on superhero", but he's a giant monster so ya know; people being harmed in the fights did bring it down to Earth though.

Yeah the uncle being killed by Hedorah always did bother me.

One of the big issues with the Showa series is how a lot of people retcon completely Godzilla as a superhero. While its clear that he`s no longer akin to the early showa era, there are moments where people, mainly adults, clearly are scared of him.

And then you have instances in film where children show no fear or idolize Godzilla. The boy in G vs H and AMA for example.

I really think the whole "Godzilla becomes a superhero" scenario is sometimes blown out of proportion because at first he helps fight Ghidorah out of a suggestion from Mothra, destroy Japan as he is controlled by aliens, just wanted to pick a fight with Ebirah, was a jerk to Minya through most of Son of Godzilla, again controlled by aliens, it's a dream so Godzilla's Revenge don't count (no sarcastic responses please), wanted to kill Hedorah becauses probably he was cutting into his territory, the funny sounds aggravated me, Jet Jaguar controlled him to what to do, again MechaGodzilla was cutting into his territory and the same goes with the sequel with Titansaurus added to the mess that angered Godzilla. Or I could be wrong since I know the film industry was struggling at this point and television was dominating and so Toho notices how well the Gamera films were doing at the box office and so out of desperation to score big at the box office, they put Gamera's traits into Godzilla, but that's just an observation point of view so you can debate about it if you want.

That is a fair point- although, both vs. Gigan and Zone Fighter do refer to Godzilla as 'a monster of justice'; in the latter, they specifically ask Godzilla for help and he comes to aid them, and later has friendly sparring sessions with Zone... in each case, coming when requested to render help at no benefit to himself. (And not nearly any time a kaiju shows up, either, so it doesn't seem territorial). So I do think that by the 70s, they were strongly trying to suggest that he had the intelligence and personality, rather than animal instincts, to be a hero; in some ways, I think Son of Godzilla is somewhat of a 'hero's journey' of fatherhood, too- a reluctant parent eventually coming to embrace his role, and seemingly the start of giving him more intelligent and benevolent motivations. Even if there was a self-interest angle to a number of the previous stories, that one feels like the turning point where they started portraying Godzilla of more doing things through an intelligent agency rooted in heroic sentience, which then continued through onward... although, yes, it's entirely possible to read that as people projecting onto him in everything but vs. Gigan, Megalon (where individual actions protecting JJ seem to point to more of an intentional heroic bent), and Zone Fighter, potentially.

Toho’s need for retconning never ceases.

Showa Hedorah is now female I guess?

Social media interns in 2019 have no input on a film released nearly fifty years ago.

UltramanGoji wrote:Social media interns in 2019 have no input on a film released nearly fifty years ago.

I mean, I think that goes without saying

Stump Feet wrote:Toho’s need for retconning never ceases.

Showa Hedorah is now female I guess?

WAT

seriously why does Toho make all these pointless changes? this is as bad as there being two Ghidorah's!

It's nothing to worry about, Toho-tied products have been doing this for the last few years.

Like UltramanGoji said, all this new information made up on the spot doesn't affect 50 year old movies.

The way I see things, unless it's explicitly stated in the films, it's not valid whatsoever.

Anyway... it's a pile of sludge. If it could even have a gender, would it matter?

When I was younger and for a really long time I was so sure those were eggs Godzilla had pulled out of Hedorah. I figured they'd grow and it'd be easier for them to reach Hedorah's fourth form: the one that towered over Godzilla. Then someone on tvtropes years ago was like 'he was pulling out Hedorah's eyes.'

Well y'know if they were eggs then that was Toho having to one up Daiei. After all a year ago in Gamera vs. Jiger we saw two kids basically abort a monster so Toho had to do it too.

UltramanGoji wrote:Social media interns in 2019 have no input on a film released nearly fifty years ago.

This hardcore.

I made a post about it a while ago, but for the most part most retcons and weird shit like this is completely pointless. The only passable cases, are with Ebirah, whose given origin (mutated by the radiation on Letchi) has no effect on the story whatsoever, and ties into what is already implied. The only thing that this may be done to do, is make up an excuse of why the Final Wars Hedorah, is completely weak in comparison to the Showa version, and isn't a big deal. It's similar to the two ghidorahs debate.

Hedorah is a conglomerate of organisms, and thus should not really have a gender.

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:

LSD Jellyfish wrote:I rewatched it, and I enjoyed it. I thought it was weird that no one reacts to the uncle being killed by Hedorah, and I noticed that Godzilla unintentionally causes the death of people in two different scenes while combating Hedorah. Those guys in that warehouse got sludged on when Godzilla was throwing Hedorah around, and in the final battle Godzilla jumps on Hedorah which knocks them both onto a JSDF truck. Interesting since this is the one where "Godzilla becomes a full on superhero", but he's a giant monster so ya know; people being harmed in the fights did bring it down to Earth though.

Yeah, the uncle kind of just dying unceremoniously definitely adds to this very cold aspect of the film, which actually makes it quite memorable.

Regarding Godzilla as a "superhero", I think the Showa series has always had something of a loose continuity through out. There are some where they push his hero role a little further. In this one, he feels more like a reluctant defender.

Also, the 70s was an era when super heroes were popular with Japan. Even Toho jumped on the trend with their series Zone Fighter. Showing Godzilla as a hero was good marketing at a time when the movie industry there wasn't as profitable.

Fun fact, I’m currently in Sugura Bay, the place Hedorah first attack’s and is discovered in. I ate probably the freshest sea food I’ve ever eaten. Anyways, being here gives me a lot more context for the film, and as I live near Mt. Fuji it’s really easy to map out where the film takes place and the progression of hedorah and Godzilla inland.

Anyways, the place is famous for fish and seafood, and it’s historucally a very important port in japan.

Riichiro Manabe’s score for this film is probably the most underappreciated in the entire Godzilla series.

I just remembered that Godzilla vs. Hedorah wasn't the only anti-pollution kaiju film in 1971.

So was Daiei's Gamera vs. Zigra. and it preceded this film to the movie screens by two months. The similarities end there.

mikelcho wrote:I just remembered that Godzilla vs. Hedorah wasn't the only anti-pollution kaiju film in 1971.

So was Daiei's Gamera vs. Zigra. and it preceded this film to the movie screens by two months. The similarities end there.

I don't recall it being as integral in the story but that doesn't surprise me.

1960's-to 70's were a horrible time for pollution in Japan.

Zone Fighter incorporates this prominently in its Ghidorah two-parter as well; a device to clean up the air pollution and end Yokohoma Asthma is the focus that the heroes are trying to protect (even willing to sacrifice their life for it) and the evil aliens are trying to destroy.