Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby Crazy Jim Films » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:15 am

edgaguirus wrote:It is the most unique Godzilla film.


That is ultimately the charm of it all. To credit it with ruining the series is really a bit much. It doesn't make a drastic enough alteration to anything to really shake the Showa era cannon up beyond repair. You can pretty much choose to ignore it and lose nothing if you see fit. There is nothing being done as major as say, turning Godzilla into a hero in "Ghidrah". Yes, there is a whole lot of wacky things going on but what real long-term damage is caused?
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby godzillalives88 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:53 am

Crazy Jim Films wrote:
edgaguirus wrote:It is the most unique Godzilla film.


That is ultimately the charm of it all. To credit it with ruining the series is really a bit much. It doesn't make a drastic enough alteration to anything to really shake the Showa era cannon up beyond repair. You can pretty much choose to ignore it and lose nothing if you see fit. There is nothing being done as major as say, turning Godzilla into a hero in "Ghidrah". Yes, there is a whole lot of wacky things going on but what real long-term damage is caused?


To take that further, I think crediting any one movie with ruining any one series is a bit much, even GINO or Final Wars. Usually when an individual series declined is was because of broader trends of Toho either losing money or running out of ideas.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby Crazy Jim Films » Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:53 pm

godzillalives88 wrote: To take that further, I think crediting any one movie with ruining any one series is a bit much, even GINO or Final Wars. Usually when an individual series declined is was because of broader trends of Toho either losing money or running out of ideas.
I don't know. With certain films, you may have that "jump the shark" moment that really makes it difficult for a series to recover from. I don't see much of that with "Hedorah". Even the flying moment, love it or hate it, is pretty self-contained within the film it's featured in. It doesn't much affect anything that comes after it or before it.

If anything, the series took its most drastic shift when they introduced ideas like the monsters talking to each other, Godzilla becoming heroic, and the countless alien races showing up to take over the planet. But even at a young age in viewing Godzilla 1985, where it basically reboots and ignores the 60's and 70's entries, there's always this sense of this comic book-like aspect where different alternate storylines can exist. I think any damage is minimal. Something like the Tri-Star 90's version is a different issue. I think the studio had no clue how to make a successful Americanized version of Godzilla and ended up losing out in the long run. It didn't "ruin" the series, per se, but it kept the property from doing much in the States for quite some time.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby eabaker » Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:07 pm

Crazy Jim Films wrote:It didn't "ruin" the series, per se, but it kept the property from doing much in the States for quite some time.


Even there, it's not like the property was doing a lot in the States anyway. The Trendmasters toyline, the Dark Horse comics, and the Random House books were all pretty niche properties. Heck, Godzilla 2000 was the first Japanese Godzilla movie to get a theatrical release over here in 15 years, and that came two years after the TriStar flick.

As for Hedorah, it's hard to make a case that it ruined a series that was already experiencing diminished box office, and that still managed to produce a movie per year for the next four years.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby Rodan » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:49 pm

Re; Above: For what it's worth, too, if we hadn't had Banno making a psychedelic passion project out of this assignment, we'd likely have gotten another shoestring budget child-oriented affair akin to vs. Gigan or Megalon. The Japanese spectacle film industry was suffering at that time with or without Hedorah. At least we got one more urgent and unique film out of the series before it was shelved.

Superhero Godzilla was certainly in the pipeline with or without this film as well, as Toho was increasingly going after child audiences in the '70s. Good-guy Godzilla fighting bad-guy monsters was part of that shift. (And that had been the direction of the series since Ghidorah showed up anyway, even if Godzilla was less openly heroic previously. Even then, Hedorah probably tempered that more than any of the films to follow -- the news sites something like two-hundred deaths and injuries following the monsters' fight at the harbor.)

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby edgaguirus » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:56 pm

Toho's budget cutting and the increasing market for television were the main causes of decline for the last 60s and 70s films. Banno's style makes G vs Hedorah stand out from them, and whether that's good or not depends on opinion. Personally, it's weird to me, but still a good one.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby AbudJasemAlBaldawi » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:53 pm

I like the movie a bit more than I used to, but I still despise the soundtrack, especially that really stupid sounding elephant circus music that plays whenever Godzilla shows up. I feel either a more funk/psychedelic rock based or a darker more serious (but not Ifukube-esque) soundtrack would've done wonders for this film, but not both and definitely not what was used in the movie.

edit: actually I think something like the Prophecies of Nostradamus soundtrack would've been perfect.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby cmdmstudios » Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:37 pm

AbudJasemAlBaldawi wrote:I like the movie a bit more than I used to, but I still despise the soundtrack, especially that really stupid sounding elephant circus music that plays whenever Godzilla shows up. I feel either a more funk/psychedelic rock based or a darker more serious (but not Ifukube-esque) soundtrack would've done wonders for this film, but not both and definitely not what was used in the movie.

edit: actually I think something like the Prophecies of Nostradamus soundtrack would've been perfect.


That was the biggest thing I fixed with my fan edit. I ended up using Masaru Satoh's scores, with the H-Man themes used for some of Hedorah's appearances, and using the theme he wrote for Godzilla in 'Ebirah: Horror of the Deep' used for Godzilla's entrances.

https://www.facebook.com/kaijuandwhatno ... 962443859/

There's a taste of what this edit ended up being like.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby AbudJasemAlBaldawi » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:17 am

cmdmstudios wrote:
AbudJasemAlBaldawi wrote:I like the movie a bit more than I used to, but I still despise the soundtrack, especially that really stupid sounding elephant circus music that plays whenever Godzilla shows up. I feel either a more funk/psychedelic rock based or a darker more serious (but not Ifukube-esque) soundtrack would've done wonders for this film, but not both and definitely not what was used in the movie.

edit: actually I think something like the Prophecies of Nostradamus soundtrack would've been perfect.


That was the biggest thing I fixed with my fan edit. I ended up using Masaru Satoh's scores, with the H-Man themes used for some of Hedorah's appearances, and using the theme he wrote for Godzilla in 'Ebirah: Horror of the Deep' used for Godzilla's entrances.

https://www.facebook.com/kaijuandwhatno ... 962443859/

There's a taste of what this edit ended up being like.

Hmm, interesting edit. But yeah, I do feel like that soundtrack change is a significant improvement.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby jackzilla » Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:26 pm

I don't like this one, but I don't hate it either. It's a bit too weird and trippy for me, but, it's not terrible.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby g2vd » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:48 am

I never did get the "Too trippy" complaint, sure there are some pretty trippy moments throughout the movie such as the Club and the Animation scenes, but beyond that there really isn't that much and if you think about it the entry is arguably the most grounded of the 70s G movies.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby Goji » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:12 am

Yeah, and it's almost always used as some kind of negative, I don't get it. "It's just so weird". That's part of what makes it so great. It's different.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby Rodan » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:14 am

g2vd wrote:I never did get the "Too trippy" complaint, sure there are some pretty trippy moments throughout the movie such as the Club and the Animation scenes, but beyond that there really isn't that much and if you think about it the entry is arguably the most grounded of the 70s G movies.

Nah, it's a pretty weird film, from the dream-like development of events to that TV transition with the skulls that seems like it was just dropped in from a better film. (No knock against Hedorah, which I love, but that bit is too good.)

Manabe's score probably compounds the psychedelic feeling for many.

I'd honestly like it to be even weirder, for what it's worth.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby g2vd » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:39 am

Goji wrote:Yeah, and it's almost always used as some kind of negative, I don't get it. "It's just so weird". That's part of what makes it so great. It's different.

I know right? I mean a Godzilla movie that's weird? I mean I can take a person who has ESP abilities that just stands around doing nothing, a Plant possessed by the Ghost of a Human being who was killed by a act of sabotage and is than brought back to life as a Godzilla plant hybrid after a Scientist injected Godzilla Cells into it, M11 roller-skating, King Ghidorah being created by the fusing of Ewok rejects, The Earth being revealed to be a living entity, A Godzilla Clone from Outer Space being created when Godzilla Cells found their way into a Black-hole merged with some crystal thing became totally evil and somehow found their way back to Earth, Gorosaurus's Kanagroo Kick, Godzilla Dancing, Godzilla Kanagroo Kicking Kong, Godzilla using bad language, a Princess randomly being possessed by a Alien from Venus, The Japanese having their own Black Hole gun, Space Apes from a black hole dressed in tin foil, the Giant Octopus's random appearance in King Kong Vs. Godzilla, Little Godzilla, All of Final Wars

But a person briefly suffering hallucinations of people in Fish Heads and cartoons "Madness! Madness I say! this is too trippy this is the weirdest thing! Weird is wrong!"

:lol: I mean It is indeed a weird movie no doubt about it I mean it has people in fish heads! But still I mean I just don't understand why weird or different is bad especially when it's what makes the movie as good as it is. but in truth when you think about it Hedorah just plays it as it is where as other movies play the weird stuff completely normal and act like it's the most normal thing in the whole world "Oh you thought a Rose Flower held the Ghost of you're long dead daughter and tried to bring her back by injecting Godzilla Cells into the flower which ended up creating a giant Half Plant Half Godzilla hybrid? Ehh, it's cool just yesterday I created a new race of volcanic fire breathing monkeys their pretty cool If I must say so."
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby LamangoKaijura » Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:06 am

Is it wrong I wished Land/Quadroped Hedorah was used more?

Also, fun note, when Godzilla uses his beam to dry out Hedorah between the electrodes, and then knocks a boulder onto it? The hedorah that flies from the dried husk wasn't flying hedorah, but actually Tadpole Hedorah.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby Godzillian » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:04 am

LamangoKaijura wrote:Is it wrong I wished Land/Quadroped Hedorah was used more?

Also, fun note, when Godzilla uses his beam to dry out Hedorah between the electrodes, and then knocks a boulder onto it? The hedorah that flies from the dried husk wasn't flying hedorah, but actually Tadpole Hedorah.

I do too. It was used so briefly and was an interestingdesign
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby DaiKamonohashi » Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:13 am

Just finished this last night:

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby edgaguirus » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:08 pm

Very good, DK.

Although someone should tell Hedorah smoking is bad for him.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby Rodan » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:57 pm

edgaguirus wrote:Very good, DK.

Although someone should tell Hedorah smoking is bad for him.

Nah. I think he should stick to smoking. All that intravenous stuff's no good.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Postby ILL GREEN » Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:00 pm

There's money to be made with a Hedorah bong.


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