Why Does Every one like The showa series

[edgaguirus]

I doubt there is a fair metric to measure whether any era is better or worse than another. Just from reading opinions on this board, a film can be seen in good or bad light by people for any number of reasons. You could argue the special effects for the Heisei era are better than the Showa, but that's because techniques improved over time. Even then, some might argue the Showa era had some effects just as good, or better, as the Heisei. The same could be done with acting and writing.

It's more opinion than anything else, with a bit of nostalgia mixed in.

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

These 15 Holy Godzilla Films are the real deal. Like, I could watch all of them any week if I had the strength, but I'm just a mere mortal. And that's just talking about the Showa G films!

Yes, because Godzilla Raids Again, Son of Godzilla, and Godzilla's revenge are masterpieces of cinema. Like, I enjoy plenty of Showa movies, but from an overall quality perspective, Heisei is the best series by far. I know this forum is mostly made up of older guys who probably hate me for not calling the Showa series a flawless masterpiece, but I enjoy the Showa series in a different way.

But seriously, Godzilla Raids Again and Godzilla's Revenge are both worse than Godzilla (1998).

I don't believe films have to be held as masterpieces in order to be recognized, it's their quality and storytelling that will stand the test of time and reveal itself anew. Which is why Gojira has only recently been noticed in such a way.
Mr. Goji and Watch, PBP and the others have already said what needed to be said; look people can absolutely have opinions and preferences, but the Showa Era was the era with the most innovative ideas and passion - it was indeed the Golden Age of tokusatu. Revenge is definitely better than G98, it still had that Honda magic and vision. It may be a kid's film, but it's still well made in what it sought to do.

I'm not one of the older guys, but the Showa Era has the best quality from an objective perspective. The Heisei series has some fantastic moments, its just the scripts and direction that fall hard.

[PitchBlackProgress]

^ Give this man a cookie, he gets it.

[Mr_Goji_and_Watch]

It's telling that Honda and Fukuda had careers that spanned more than just monster and sci-fi films while the prolific Heisei era (as in the actual era) directors Okawara and Tezuka basically faded into obscurity after their Godzilla films. You can't chalk it up to the meme about the Japanese film industry being shit considering nothing stops them from making indie films and the stronger directors like Kaneko and Omori are still getting work. The former is apparently even making some war film in China.

[Terasawa]

You can't chalk it up to the meme about the Japanese film industry being shit

You absolutely can. "Basically faded into obscurity after their Godzilla films" also describes Honda's and Fukuda's careers. Honda, Fukuda, Koji Hashimoto, Takao Okawara, Kensho Yamashita, Masaaki Tezuka: all these men were long time assistant directors for Toho who stuck around long enough to get promoted to the big chair. The difference is that Honda and Fukuda worked in the golden age of Japanese cinema, when Japan was producing literally hundreds of movies each year. That slowed down and in the '90s and 2000s Toho was producing something like 20 in a good year. There simply wasn't enough work for all the contracted directors to take.

That's where guys like Kazuki Omori, Shusuke Kaneko, and Ryuhei Kitamura come in. They had a string of independent or outside-Toho successes before accepting the Godzilla gig. Each was brought in by Toho to inject some life in the Godzilla series. That doesn't necessarily mean they were better directors, just that they had proven track records. A side effect of that is that those independent guys were taking films that the studio guys like Tezuka and Okawara could have also been up for.

This is what Kensho Yamashita had to say about directing in 25 years ago, right after finishing Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla: "It was possible for a director to direct three films within a few years or even one year back in the 1950s and 1960s, but these days it is not possible for a director to do that because Toho now produces a much smaller number of movies. Toho promoted me before I directed TROUBLEMAN LAUGHS AND KILLS and proposed that I quit and begin contracting independently after the film was completed. However, I insisted that I remain a Toho employee because directors still had a right to direct three movies before being fired. I finally began contracting independently just before I started working on GODZILLA VS. SPACE GODZILLA." SpaceGodzilla was his third film as director for Toho. It was also his last. (Interview.)

Note that Honda and Fukuda got their best assignments early on. The last halves of their careers were almost exclusively spent doing special effects films for Tomoyuki Tanaka. Honda tried for years to get several dramatic projects off the ground but no one was interested. Takao Okawara pitched several non-tokusatsu ideas to Toho but they turned him down, and going independent wasn't a risk he wanted to take. Why should he take that chance when he was already contracted for more films (if not the ones he wanted) at Toho? Not everyone is going to give up job security to chase their dreams. (Source.)

I think you're underestimating just how difficult it is to make a movie in Japan today. Yeah, Masaaki Tezuka could try to go independent, and who's to say he hasn't? Look at the guys that "sandwiched" his Godzilla films: Kaneko and Kitamura. Kitamura left Japan as fast as he could to take Hollywood jobs. In Japan he was an up-and-coming big shot but he's just another guy in Hollywood. I'm glad that Kaneko is still getting some nice projects but even he was taking TV jobs in the mid-2000s, hardly a boost to his career. He's also working overseas, like Kitamura. So even those more renowned guys aren't even get that much work in their home country, either by choice or because there just... aren't any jobs.

[Mr_Goji_and_Watch]

Honda landed jobs where he was nearly a co-director for Kurosawa. It's because of their friendship but that doesn't negate that he was working on high-profile films with a director who entrusted many duties onto him and thought of him as an equal. He was in a position to turn down offers to direct a Godzilla or Daimaijin film and do what he wanted. There are plenty of live action directors in Japan who continually make Japanese productions. Kore-eda, Yoji Yamada, Sion Sono, Takashi Yamazaki, Yoshihiro Nakamura, and others consistently put out Japanese films for years. Kore-eda and Sono are both working abroad soon and that's after decades of working in their home country. Perhaps Tezuka is associated with audience's fatigue during the Millennium series and Okawara's box office successes are just credited to the brand but I'd say they're just mediocre directors who can't compete.

[Terasawa]

Of course there are Japanese directors still getting work on Japanese movies. But none of the directors you mentioned are comparable to anyone who’s directed a Godzilla movie. Only Yamazaki has done much sfx work and his sfx movies are more like the modern Hollywood model than Tsuburaya. They aren’t modern analogues to Jun Fukuda or Ishiro Honda, they’re more like Kurosawa or Ozu or maybe Senkichi Taniguchi.

Honda and company weren’t given prestige projects. He was entrusted to small dramas first and had a huge international success with Godzilla (which was surely not planned to be the success it ended up becoming) but that wasn’t enough for Toho to promote him to meatier projects. They trusted him with the tokusatsu films that were getting sold around the world but barely ten years after Godzilla that was all he was doing. All the other gigs had dried up.

My point is that Tezuka and Okawara and guys like that never even had a chance to do hardly anything besides Godzilla, largely because they worked in an era where those comedies and dramas that Honda got, or the action movies that Fukuda was proficient at, weren’t being made. It wouldn’t surprise me if Honda would have only directed five or six movies under those same circumstances.

[Gojirawars 03]

Son of Godzilla is a masterpiece of cinema actually.

Is it, though? Sorry, but no matter what movie he's in, I can't stand Minilla. I don't care if it's Showa Minilla or Millenium Minilla (seriously, Minilla being in Final Wars was the worst part of that movie, easily).

So I hope you're being ironic in your statement. Also, nice profile pic. Me Grimlock like you.

Son of Godzilla is easily better than GVMGII, not even kidding

Well you're fine to think that.


You're objectively wrong, but that's ok.

[eabaker]

Is it, though? Sorry, but no matter what movie he's in, I can't stand Minilla. I don't care if it's Showa Minilla or Millenium Minilla (seriously, Minilla being in Final Wars was the worst part of that movie, easily).

So I hope you're being ironic in your statement. Also, nice profile pic. Me Grimlock like you.

Son of Godzilla is easily better than GVMGII, not even kidding

Well you're fine to think that.


You're objectively wrong, but that's ok.

Yes, it is objectively wrong to favor Son of Godzilla's superior story structure, characterization, and performances; more distinctive production and creature design; more cinematic visual style; and largely more impressive special effects accomplishments.

[Gojirawars 03]

Son of Godzilla is easily better than GVMGII, not even kidding

Well you're fine to think that.


You're objectively wrong, but that's ok.

Yes, it is objectively wrong to favor Son of Godzilla's superior story structure, characterization, and performances; more distinctive production and creature design; more cinematic visual style; and largely more impressive special effects accomplishments.

Yes, because watching Minilla's donkey squeals and deformed frog hatchling puppet makes for a better movie than a three-way battle royale between Godzilla, Mechagodzilla, and a powered up Rodan over the fate of an actually good-looking design of Godzilla's son. Obviously, the new new monsters being a giant spider and some giant praying mantises was much better than Fire Rodan or Super Mechagodzilla. Obviously watching a couple guys talk about a weather machine is much more interesting than a plan to defeat Godzilla using a robotic double of him that is superior in almost every way. Yes, Son of Godzilla is such a great film. Obviously.

[Maritonic]

Well you're fine to think that.


You're objectively wrong, but that's ok.

Yes, it is objectively wrong to favor Son of Godzilla's superior story structure, characterization, and performances; more distinctive production and creature design; more cinematic visual style; and largely more impressive special effects accomplishments.

Yes, because watching Minilla's donkey squeals and deformed frog hatchling puppet makes for a better movie than a three-way battle royale between Godzilla, Mechagodzilla, and a powered up Rodan over the fate of an actually good-looking design of Godzilla's son. Obviously, the new new monsters being a giant spider and some giant praying mantises was much better than Fire Rodan or Super Mechagodzilla. Obviously watching a couple guys talk about a weather machine is much more interesting than a plan to defeat Godzilla using a robotic double of him that is superior in almost every way. Yes, Son of Godzilla is such a great film. Obviously.

yeah, you hit all the nails on the head actually. Good job! Son of Godzilla is the better film.

[Godzillian]

Well you're fine to think that.


You're objectively wrong, but that's ok.

Yes, it is objectively wrong to favor Son of Godzilla's superior story structure, characterization, and performances; more distinctive production and creature design; more cinematic visual style; and largely more impressive special effects accomplishments.

Yes, because watching Minilla's donkey squeals and deformed frog hatchling puppet makes for a better movie than a three-way battle royale between Godzilla, Mechagodzilla, and a powered up Rodan over the fate of an actually good-looking design of Godzilla's son. Obviously, the new new monsters being a giant spider and some giant praying mantises was much better than Fire Rodan or Super Mechagodzilla. Obviously watching a couple guys talk about a weather machine is much more interesting than a plan to defeat Godzilla using a robotic double of him that is superior in almost every way. Yes, Son of Godzilla is such a great film. Obviously.

SOG is the superior film, its not our fault you so blinded by your biased to an about average heisei film that you can't understand that. Tbh it's not even really worth talking to you about it because you'll never change your mind. But it's ok to be objectively wrong fam

[eabaker]

Well you're fine to think that.


You're objectively wrong, but that's ok.

Yes, it is objectively wrong to favor Son of Godzilla's superior story structure, characterization, and performances; more distinctive production and creature design; more cinematic visual style; and largely more impressive special effects accomplishments.

Yes, because watching Minilla's donkey squeals and deformed frog hatchling puppet makes for a better movie than a three-way battle royale between Godzilla, Mechagodzilla, and a powered up Rodan over the fate of an actually good-looking design of Godzilla's son. Obviously, the new new monsters being a giant spider and some giant praying mantises was much better than Fire Rodan or Super Mechagodzilla. Obviously watching a couple guys talk about a weather machine is much more interesting than a plan to defeat Godzilla using a robotic double of him that is superior in almost every way. Yes, Son of Godzilla is such a great film. Obviously.

You're talking about the elements you think are or are not "cool" or something. I'm talking about the craftsmanship of the movies.

[Maritonic]

Yes, it is objectively wrong to favor Son of Godzilla's superior story structure, characterization, and performances; more distinctive production and creature design; more cinematic visual style; and largely more impressive special effects accomplishments.

Yes, because watching Minilla's donkey squeals and deformed frog hatchling puppet makes for a better movie than a three-way battle royale between Godzilla, Mechagodzilla, and a powered up Rodan over the fate of an actually good-looking design of Godzilla's son. Obviously, the new new monsters being a giant spider and some giant praying mantises was much better than Fire Rodan or Super Mechagodzilla. Obviously watching a couple guys talk about a weather machine is much more interesting than a plan to defeat Godzilla using a robotic double of him that is superior in almost every way. Yes, Son of Godzilla is such a great film. Obviously.

You're talking about the elements you think are or are not "cool" or something. I'm talking about the craftsmanship of the movies.

Isn't that all that matters? What's "cool"?

[MaxRebo320]

Attack of the Clones is obviously the way better movie than The Empire Strikes Back. Instead of a green muppet just sitting around and levitating stuff, you have a better-looking one that does flips and duels with a Lightsaber. Instead of little pig people pulling levers, you have a giant clone army storming the scene and shooting bugs. Attack of the Clones is the better movie, and if you think otherwise, you're O B J E C T I V L E Y W R O N G.

[Smuggers]

Attack of the Clones is obviously the way better movie than The Empire Strikes Back. Instead of a green muppet just sitting around and levitating stuff, you have a better-looking one that does flips and duels with a Lightsaber. Instead of little pig people pulling levers, you have a giant clone army storming the scene and shooting bugs. Attack of the Clones is the better movie, and if you think otherwise, you're O B J E C T I V L E Y W R O N G.

From my point of view, you're objectively wrong!

[Godzillian]

Attack of the Clones is obviously the way better movie than The Empire Strikes Back. Instead of a green muppet just sitting around and levitating stuff, you have a better-looking one that does flips and duels with a Lightsaber. Instead of little pig people pulling levers, you have a giant clone army storming the scene and shooting bugs. Attack of the Clones is the better movie, and if you think otherwise, you're O B J E C T I V L E Y W R O N G.

From my point of view, you're objectively wrong!

THEN YOU ARE LOST

[Mr_Goji_and_Watch]

Anybody know why stuff like this always devolves into critiquing ideas and premises and not the actual execution?

[Godzillian]

Anybody know why stuff like this always devolves into critiquing ideas and premises and not the actual execution?

because

Spoiler:

95% of the fan base doesn't really understand what properly critiquing a movie is

[LSD Jellyfish]

Without getting into all the trolling and questioning now, I’ll say this:

A lot of the early showa, with even its faults, comes off as more sincere without being overly complex. The films also accomplish what they’re trying to do better. I’m going to use both Son of Godzilla and GVMG2 as an example of this.

Son of Godzilla keeps a large focus on the human characters, and Godzilla and Minya. Sure there’s Kumonga and Kamacuruas, but they, like the whole weather thing, exist as an external threat.

Meanwhile, in GVMG2, you have a story thread about Godzilla and Baby Godzilla, Rodan and Fire Rodan, Mechagodzilla, a guy who likes dinosaurs, the psychics, Garuda and SMG and a ton of other stuff. GVMG2 is great, but it’s great for drastically different reasons then son of Godzilla. You have a crowded cast of monsters and story beats, and with the exception of that brief moment at the end I never really fully bought that Godzilla cares about Baby in the context of this film. I never got a sense of urgency with Rodan or Baby being harmed, like I did with Minya and Kumonga.

GVMG2 is super complex, while SoG keeps a really relaxed pace, that is consistent minus some moments with Kumonga, and everything blends well together. This goes for the music, the scenery, the fights, and human action and involvement, etc...

The same goes for most of the Showa films. Ebirah Horror of the Deep isn’t as “epic” or cool as Godzilla vs King Ghidorah, but it is a distinctive adventure film with a simple premise that does what it’s trying to accomplish.

A lot of later Godzilla films get ridiculously complex, for better and for worse. To be clear, I actually think both films are pretty good entries in the series, Im just saying I completely get why some would prefer SoG then GVMG2.