Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

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Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby TheDolphinKaijuGod » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:46 pm

Godzilla (2001)
https://wikizilla.org/wiki/Godzilla/GMK

Orga
https://wikizilla.org/wiki/Orga

Takes place in Tokyo at night. Godzilla is not allowed to use his Ghidorah powered heat ray.
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby Kiryu2012 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:04 pm

I'm not sure if Godzilla can kill Orga quickly enough before Orga proceeds to consume him. Orga was able to survive Godzilla 2000's Atomic Ray, so he should be able to withstand GMK Godzilla's beam. And unlike 2000, GMK has no way to kill Orga from the inside once Orga begins consuming him.
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby JAGzilla » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:01 am

^ Eh, I imagine an atomic beam down the throat or through the back of the head might do the trick. Even if it doesn't kill Orga, it'll probably make him let go.

That said, if Orga manages to get a good bite in and breaks Godzilla's skin, that may be all he needs. I would think Orga's quick regeneration gives him the better odds here. He can probably outlast Godzilla.
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby KaijuCanuck » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:23 pm

My impression of GMK goji is that he’s one of the most powerful incarnations? Certainly more powerful than G2K. His atomic breath was a one hit kill on both Mothra and Baragon, without any Ghidorah power-up. I think he takes this easily.
Last edited by KaijuCanuck on Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby Inferno Rodan » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:01 pm

KaijuCanuck wrote:My impression of GMK goji is that he’s one of the most powerful incarnations? Certainly more powerful than G2K. His atomic breath was a one hit kill on both Mothra and Baragon, without any Ghidorah power-up. I think he takes this easily.

G2K's beam is the most consistently powerful beam of any Godzilla. It's terrifying. Add onto that his rapid regeneration and very high durability (Full Metal Missiles are no joke and would wreck most kaiju) and you have a top-tier Godzilla. He's superior to GMK in nearly every category.
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby Zarm » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:49 pm

I think GMK is unstoppably powerful in his own universe, but the opponents he faces are scaled down to make him so. It gives that impression in his own universe, but not when compared against the non-kaiju benchmarks of Godzilla's from other 'film universes'. If that makes any sense.
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby KaijuCanuck » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:58 am

Inferno Rodan wrote:
KaijuCanuck wrote:My impression of GMK goji is that he’s one of the most powerful incarnations? Certainly more powerful than G2K. His atomic breath was a one hit kill on both Mothra and Baragon, without any Ghidorah power-up. I think he takes this easily.

G2K's beam is the most consistently powerful beam of any Godzilla. It's terrifying. Add onto that his rapid regeneration and very high durability (Full Metal Missiles are no joke and would wreck most kaiju) and you have a top-tier Godzilla. He's superior to GMK in nearly every category.


Eh, I disagree I think. I don’t see much in GMK that makes him any weaker than G2K. You could argue his durability is lower because they were able to drill through him from the inside, but unless Orga gets inside GMK I’d say that’s a moot point.
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby Inferno Rodan » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:36 pm

KaijuCanuck wrote:Eh, I disagree I think. I don’t see much in GMK that makes him any weaker than G2K. You could argue his durability is lower because they were able to drill through him from the inside, but unless Orga gets inside GMK I’d say that’s a moot point.

At one point G2K's beam incinerated several dozen cubic meters of rock in a few seconds and then proceeded to hurl the still-mostly-covered-with-rock UFO backwards. When he destroyed the UFO later in the movie, you can see when the front half of it falls to the ground that the material it's made from had been melted around the point of impact. Bear in mind that said material was capable of withstanding the heat of atmospheric reentry unharmed. It also removed chunks of Orga's body every time it struck him.

Yeah, GMK killed Baragon and Mothra with his beam. But when you look at what his beam actually does to things, it ranges from mediocre (just causing small amounts of sparks and smoke) to pretty strong (large explosions), depending largely upon how long he charges it. The only times it got into the strong side were when he was able to get exceptionally long charge times because he was free to do so, i.e. the mushroom cloud scene and when Baragon was trying to run away.

As for durability, make no mistake, the FMMs are easily among the most potent man-made weapons ever used against a Toho kaiju. We know from the stock footage used when discussing them that they're basically bunker busters. I can't tell the specific size of the ones shown in the stock footage, but even if it's on the low end that still means they're capable of punching through a few dozen feet of earth. That may not sound like much, but how often have you seen a kaiju attack do that? And before you bring up the D-03 missiles that GMK shrugged off, those things quite frankly have immensely stupid and inefficient designs and are nothing compared to proper ground-penetrating weapons. FMMs would have absolutely ruined GMK Godzilla, between his lack of regen and the whole "self-destruct if body cavity is penetrated" thing.
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby KaijuCanuck » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:12 pm

Eh. I still don’t see it. GMK’s breath attack was not only a one-hit kill, it totally incinerated their bodies. Really any post-showa atomic breath packs enough of a punch to really tear up the inside of another kaiju.

Of course, this is all assuming Orga tries to eat GMK. But if he does, yeah I think he’s toast.

As for durability and stuff, I always interpreted regenerator G1 to be a pan-Godzilla explanation for his durability? I mean I guess there’s no evidence for that in any other movies, but I watch that as an addition to the general lore rather than just something that’s specific to that one incarnation. And in talking about the FMM, IMO it’s all pretty arbitrary what weapons Godzilla goes up against. They are all just stand-ins for each other as ‘human weapon that fails’. If the FMMs had been in GMK instead of those drill things, they would have failed too. Even if one appears to be stronger than the other when you compare them, if you swap them between movies the scenes just play out the exact same way. With some the exceptions like, say, ShIn where you actually see weapons do damage, I feel we can kind of just assume every human weapon fails against every Godzilla.
Last edited by KaijuCanuck on Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby Zarm » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:26 pm

KaijuCanuck wrote:Eh. I still don’t see it. GMK’s breath attack was not only a one-hit kill, it totally incinerated their bodies. Really any post-showa atomic breath packs enough of a punch to really tear up the inside of another kaiju.


I think the point we're trying to make is- yes, it was a one-hit kill, on these kaiju in this universe (and even then, only on two of them, neither of which are super-durable in other incarnations, either). But that doesn't mean these guardian kaiju are on the same scale as kaiju in other G-films. Like with Gamera and Godzilla films, comparing the kaiju directly may be comparing apples and oranges, because both are at wildly different power-levels (just proportional to each-other). That's why real-world effects, like damage to rock and metal, or susceptibility to military weapons, are used as a benchmark- they are a neutral, shared source to calibrate to.

Our proposition is that the GMK Guardian monsters are, essentially, only at Ghagon or Spider-colony levels; sure, Hanjiru's breath annihilates them, but that doesn't mean it will vaporize Dracochelys or Tyrosus. If the only battle you saw of Emergence was Hanjiru vs. Ghagon and Spider Colony, and thus she could kill any kaiju she came across, it might make her seem more powerful; if then you separately saw Dracochelys vs. Tyrosus, and had no context comparing the two, you might think 'Dracochelys was killed by Tyrosus, so he seems strong- but Dracochelys killed multiple other kaiju in one shot, thus she is stronger than Tyrosus'... but that would only be because each were fighting differently-scaled opponents at the single time you saw them.


KaijuCanuck wrote:Of course, this is all assuming Orga tries to eat GMK. But if he does, yeah I think he’s toast.

Not sure I agree that a single beam could do it (I feel like the pulse's area of affect was the only thing that overwhelmed the regen powers). But even so, this would only hold true if GMK has the thought of going head-on the way 2000 did, since he only has single directional-ability in his attacks. If he's swallowed sideways or backwards, he might not have the ability to make a kill shot (just a painful wound) before he's absorbed.

KaijuCanuck wrote:As for durability and stuff, I always interpreted regenerator G1 to be a pan-Godzilla explanation for his durability?

I think there's good reason not to attribute that to GMK, however; his wounds persisted and killed him, rather than visibly closing up, so it seems pretty definitive he lacks regenerative powers. (Honestly, while we tend to treat kaiju behavior as 'fixed,' if going strictly by story reasoning and backstory, Orga would have no reason to try and eat GMK without Regenerator G1 to absorb. But, that's more nuance than we tend to give behavior in the FMs... ;) )
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby KaijuCanuck » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:54 pm

Ugh... I think maybe I’m just not cut out for fantasy matches. I think too much in terms of plot and story structure rather than trying to be objective across films. If you put Micky Mouse against Darkseid I’d say Mickey Mouse becaus hes the good guy, and it will just be written so that that result makes sense... likewise Godzilla against any greater evil has to win because he’s Godzilla and the other kaiju is a greater evil... so yeah, think i’m out of here...
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby TheDolphinKaijuGod » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:34 pm

KaijuCanuck wrote:Ugh... I think maybe I’m just not cut out for fantasy matches. I think too much in terms of plot and story structure rather than trying to be objective across films. If you put Micky Mouse against Darkseid I’d say Mickey Mouse becaus hes the good guy, and it will just be written so that that result makes sense... likewise Godzilla against any greater evil has to win because he’s Godzilla and the other kaiju is a greater evil... so yeah, think i’m out of here...

Well, goodbye man...

Anyway, would the outcome change at all if Godzilla had his Ghidorah powered ray?
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby SoggyNoodles2016 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:20 pm

KaijuCanuck wrote:Ugh... I think maybe I’m just not cut out for fantasy matches. I think too much in terms of plot and story structure rather than trying to be objective across films. If you put Micky Mouse against Darkseid I’d say Mickey Mouse becaus hes the good guy, and it will just be written so that that result makes sense... likewise Godzilla against any greater evil has to win because he’s Godzilla and the other kaiju is a greater evil... so yeah, think i’m out of here...


I think the same way. Don't worry, just use a bunch of fake stats and overanalysis of some scenes to make it seem like like you know what you're talking about, and we'll both fit right in. :P
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby Tomzilla » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:42 pm

SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:
KaijuCanuck wrote:Ugh... I think maybe I’m just not cut out for fantasy matches. I think too much in terms of plot and story structure rather than trying to be objective across films. If you put Micky Mouse against Darkseid I’d say Mickey Mouse becaus hes the good guy, and it will just be written so that that result makes sense... likewise Godzilla against any greater evil has to win because he’s Godzilla and the other kaiju is a greater evil... so yeah, think i’m out of here...


I think the same way. Don't worry, just use a bunch of fake stats and overanalysis of some scenes to make it seem like like you know what you're talking about, and we'll both fit right in. :P


Damn it, someone's finally figured it out... :lol:
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby Zarm » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:12 pm

Tomzilla wrote:
SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:
KaijuCanuck wrote:Ugh... I think maybe I’m just not cut out for fantasy matches. I think too much in terms of plot and story structure rather than trying to be objective across films. If you put Micky Mouse against Darkseid I’d say Mickey Mouse becaus hes the good guy, and it will just be written so that that result makes sense... likewise Godzilla against any greater evil has to win because he’s Godzilla and the other kaiju is a greater evil... so yeah, think i’m out of here...


I think the same way. Don't worry, just use a bunch of fake stats and overanalysis of some scenes to make it seem like like you know what you're talking about, and we'll both fit right in. :P


Damn it, someone's finally figured it out... :lol:


I would have agreed, but while re-reading your post, I noticed a screen-flicker in the refresh-rate of 2 cycles per minute. Now, if you extrapolate the math, that gives your post a verifiability rating of only 32, which is well below the margins of certainty. So clearly, the counter-argument wins.

And also Bagan.
Last edited by Zarm on Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:

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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby HillyHulk » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:57 pm

On one hand, this Godzilla usually goes into hand to hand combat with his enemies. That works directly into Orga's desire to absorb D.N.A. On the other, however, Godzilla's strength and grappling could wind up keeping Orga from fully accomplishing that. The U.F.O could provide decent cover when Orga finds himself overpowered, but this Godzilla can absorb energy and fuel his atomic rays (which are amongst the strongest of the atomic rays the incarnations of Godzilla have shown without boosts) which could make Orga wary of getting close. One main advantage that Orga has over Godzilla that he can't compensate for his jumping capability could keep Godzilla from hitting him for a while.

Nevertheless, I'm giving it to Godzilla 2001.
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby TheRealSpinoRex » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:11 pm

Inferno Rodan wrote:
KaijuCanuck wrote:My impression of GMK goji is that he’s one of the most powerful incarnations? Certainly more powerful than G2K. His atomic breath was a one hit kill on both Mothra and Baragon, without any Ghidorah power-up. I think he takes this easily.

G2K's beam is the most consistently powerful beam of any Godzilla. It's terrifying. Add onto that his rapid regeneration and very high durability (Full Metal Missiles are no joke and would wreck most kaiju) and you have a top-tier Godzilla. He's superior to GMK in nearly every category.


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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby Grievous » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:41 am

I'd like to think SokogekiGoji would just keep blasting Orga until he was reduced to ash...
although the idea of Orga taking genetic material from SokogekiGoji is interesting because
of the "Restless Souls" plot point.

Would Orga also "absorb" these souls & be changed on a spiritual or intellectual level?

:shrug:
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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby TheRealSpinoRex » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:33 am

GMK easily wins.

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Re: Godzilla (2001) vs. Orga

Postby TheDolphinKaijuGod » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:04 pm

TheRealSpinoRex wrote:GMK easily wins.

What?... I mean, GMK could probably pull of a win. But it'll be far from easy. Could you explain why you think this?
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