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Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:36 am
by Maritonic
Red-Death Gigan wrote:
Maritonic wrote:Considering how many times Kiryu got knocked on his ass and required severe human intervention to be saved, I think he's instantly out of this.
I haven't read the anime novels, so I know nothing of Anime Mechagodzilla not in city form, though I'd say if the nanometal gets it's hand on any of these guys he will win.
I'd say this pretty obviously comes down to Showa and Heisei incarnations at the end. I think I'd lean a bit more towards Heisei Mechagodzilla, as Super Mechagodzilla, just based on firepower but '75 Mechagodzilla had some serious firepower as well.


OP states Kiryu can go berserk. That gives him the edge in my book.


Him going berserk changes literally nothing about him except he isn't under human control. He is arguably the most fragile incarnation of Mechagodzilla; he got knocked on his ass more than any other version of Mechagodzilla, and shut down twice in his first film, and once in the second one.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:22 am
by PopInPicsPresents
Maritonic wrote: He is arguably the most fragile incarnation of Mechagodzilla


The Mechagodzilla from RPO is made of actual toilet paper.

; he got knocked on his ass more than any other version of Mechagodzilla,



Knocked on his ass by a strong ass Godzilla, it would have done the same to the Showa Mechagodzilla.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:27 am
by Maritonic
PopInPicsPresents wrote:
Maritonic wrote: He is arguably the most fragile incarnation of Mechagodzilla


The Mechagodzilla from RPO is made of actual toilet paper.


I forgot he was a thing, and didn't realize he was included in this.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:47 am
by Kaiju-King42
LamangoKaijura wrote:
Plus, there's the fact HMG was badly damaged by PECKS TO THE FACE.
One that can fire missiles that can make a whole city block LEAP INTO THE AIR, is gonna skreeonking damage HMG.


It's worse than that. Heisei's armor was penetrated – as in literally had holes punched into his chest - by Godzilla pushing him over.

A single volley of revolving missiles won't just damage Heisei MG. It'll destroy him.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:37 pm
by Zarm
PopInPicsPresents wrote:SMG was getting crushed up by King Caesar running into it and Kiryu's armor was getting dented up pretty good from Shirasagi vulcan fire. They all have moments of weakness like that. No body here really aims for the head much anyway so I doubt it matters that much.


I don't know if I'd count being dented by the impacts of a 30,000 ton hammer against a 20,000 ton anvil as a moment of weakness. The loss of control from the beam lock explosion, maybe- but again, the same explosion basically severely/mortally wounded showa Godzilla and put him out of the count for a few days, so- pretty good showing.

Kiryu has run out of power or folded much more easily, and Heisei's peck-vulnerability is legendary. Not to mention RPO's incredible fragility...

PopInPicsPresents wrote:If Showa Godzilla could take them I'm sure Mechagodzilla can too.

Really wish the creator would specify which Showa MG is getting used here.


Showa was pretty messed up by just one punching straight through his gut; I don't think any other MechaGodzilla will handle it nearly as well, especially if it punches through (all other MGs except for anime have, as discussed, been penetrated by less) and explodes internally.

It specifies that this is a combination of '74 and '75, which theoretically means the rotating missiles and the decapitation failsafe. It might possibly fix the control issue, which has been shown as a vulnerability; but maybe not, since that seemed to involve the ability to act on sent commands, which a new sender would do little to affect.


Kaiju-King42 wrote:
LamangoKaijura wrote:
Plus, there's the fact HMG was badly damaged by PECKS TO THE FACE.
One that can fire missiles that can make a whole city block LEAP INTO THE AIR, is gonna skreeonking damage HMG.


It's worse than that. Heisei's armor was penetrated – as in literally had holes punched into his chest - by Godzilla pushing him over.

A single volley of revolving missiles won't just damage Heisei MG. It'll destroy him.


Pretty much this. He's a purpose-built tool; deadly against Godzilla, but designed to only resist a very specific kind of attack. Kiryu may oblige him (but tends to lead with missiles or tackles), Showa may oblige him (even more than once- but also can handle taking the hits of those being reflected back at him, and even has the agility to dodge, as specifically showcased against King Caesar), but will soon switch to missiles. RPO appears to have a missile focus, too. Not sure about anime. But Heisei stands a good chance of getting hit by non-energy attacks early on.



I tend to think RPO will fall first, and Heisei shortly thereafter, due to their fragility to non-energy attacks (which too many Mechas here have). Heisei may gain an edge if he is intially attacked exclusively with energy, but there's only a 50-50 chance of that, I'd tend to think. Kiryu would drop third due to his general lack of durability. At that point (again, imho, your mileage may vary), it would be anime and showa... but, as both would be heavily damaged from the exchange, I do suspect that anime's nanometal regeneration may give him the edge to repair and outlast showa. It's just hard to say, with his performance being essentially theoretical. :)

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:36 pm
by Inferno Rodan
To everyone claiming Heisei MG is fragile to physical attacks, I'd like to point out that the holes caused by Godzilla were no longer there in the next shot and that Rodan's pecks only temporarily knocked out the eye lasers. The latter in spite of the fact that Rodan's pecks are actually pretty damn powerful, considering what happened when he hit solid rock with one of them.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:28 pm
by Breakdown
Anime Mechagodzilla a bit of an unknown quantity. On one hand we can definetly say he'd have the edge in survivability with his nanometal regen and the nanometal particle field that can literally deflect Godzilla Earth's stupidly powerful beam attack and other projectiles according to the wiki.

In terms of offense it's a bit more subjective. If the Convergent Neutron Cannon functions as the wiki states, then it could probably obliterate anything it hits. It's classified as a charged particle weapon that "penetrates the outer shell of a target and melts its body tissue". Charged particle weapons work by disrupting atomic and or molecular structure of a target. I'm not a physicist, so someone feel free to confirm or debunk that.

Then there's the Hyper-Lance that can extend out to 500 meters and has a hardness 10x that of diamond according to the wiki. I'd say that's also a potentially instant-kill or crippling attack. Additionally it injects Nanometal into the target which eat away at it's insides.

Then there's the "Tail Blow" which is a rocket-enhanced supersonic tail-slap that is supplemented by a high-speed cutting blade. We also have to consider that this thing was made to fight the 50m Godzilla Earth, who'd probably solo all 4 of the other MGs by himself given his feats in the prequel novels.

If we take all that at face value, Anime Mechagodzilla wins fairly easily. If not, he can atleast hold his own with his defensive abilities before falling. In that instance, I'd give the hybrid Showa MG the win due to sheer versatility.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:36 pm
by Tomzilla
^ Nice analysis, Breakdown. My sentiments exactly. Anime MechaGodzilla strikes me as a permanent wildcard in these kinds of discussions, one that will likely, depending on how you personally analyze these debates, never be resolved. In theory, Anime MechaGodzilla is one of the most dangerous kaiju. But when it comes to onscreen feats? Well, I look forward to reading those discussions. 8-)

Regarding Heisei MechaGodzilla's durability: It's not like MechaGodzilla incurred any holes or dents when Godzilla stomped on his head or slapped him around with his tail. So this sentiment that Heisei MechaGodzilla is fragile and will be torn apart by physical attacks is hyperbolic. MechaGodzilla wasn't wrecked because Godzilla pushed him over; MechaGodzilla was wrecked because Godzilla redirected the flow of electricity back into him, which, in turn, made MG's insides explode.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:15 pm
by Zarm
But he did still get his I pecked out. I disagree that this is hyperbole. I do believe that Heisei is literally weak to physical attacks. But again, he was not designed to withstand primarily physical attacks. He was made to fight Godzilla, who spams his ray. It makes sense that his defenses would be directed around that kind of attack. He was designed to hover at a distance and absorb/reflect beams, not mix it up physically. Yes, it's not like an average punch or kick will simply put a hole in him; he's not made of tissue paper. But in comparison to the other MechaGodzillas (except for RPO), he appears to be more vulnerable to physical attack.

So far, physical vulnerability would seem to rank:
RPO (grenades)
Heisei (pecks)
Kiryu (tackles)
Showa (being crushed between kaiju)
Anime (unknown)

...Whereas beam resistance would rank far differently, with Heisei on top; that's how his defenses were constructed.

Meanwhile, the physical damage being dealt out by RPO, Showa, and Kiryu would be sufficient, I would tend to think, to overcome at least those bottom three with little difficulty.


As for the notion that the damage was not there in the next shot, I realized that is typically regarded as a sign of regeneration among the various Godzillas rather than simply bad continuity, but can we assert a property of instantaneous repair for a kaiju that's not even supposed to have that capability, according to any materials?

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:11 pm
by Inferno Rodan
Zarm wrote:But he did still get his I pecked out.

No he didn't. The laser cannon temporarily shut down. The eye lights back up when it links up with Garuda.

As for the notion that the damage was not there in the next shot, I realized that is typically regarded as a sign of regeneration among the various Godzillas rather than simply bad continuity, but can we assert a property of instantaneous repair for a kaiju that's not even supposed to have that capability, according to any materials?

That wasn't really what I was going for. My point was that the "damage" was most likely just an SFX goof and not something intentional that should be taken seriously. Like the end of Godzilla's tail randomly falling off at one point in GvsSG. Or, more relevant to this specific match, the "missile uprooting a city block" shot in ToMG. I very, very seriously doubt that was an intentional effect and likely just happened because the set didn't get destroyed the way it was supposed to, which is supported by nothing similar happening in any of the other shots of the missiles going off. MG75's missiles get overrated a lot because of that. Not saying they're weak or anything, but they aren't the WMDs some people make them out to be.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:34 am
by Zarm
Regardless, we do know that the rotating missiles are supposed to be uber-powerful (based on their effect on Godzilla as well as their positioning in the film), so I see no reason to discount the onscreen evidence.

Regarding the 'punched holes,' I didn't see any; I'm fine discounting that- regardless, Heisei did not react well to simply being hit by Godzilla at the end of the first battle; the damage from the feedback had already subsided, and the damage from the physical attack seems wholly separate from that. Now, we can certainly classify all the sparks as the same kind that showa gets when hit by Godzilla's ray- primarily for show, rather than indicating crucial damage- and Heisei's incapacity as down to the feedback. Regardless... he reacts adversely to physical contact in the same way that showa only reacted when getting hit by the atomic ray. :)

Rodan's pecks also raise sparks (and almost appear to leave gouges in some shots, though it might just be a trick of light and shadows)- but you are correct; the eye is not hit directly, only the region directly below and to the left of it. Fair enough. The peck still does disabling damage, which is definitely notable- but it doesn't physically breach the eye.

At 1:21:10, Godzilla's tackles again raise sparks (as did the beam clash, which knocked out primary systems, a near-identical showing to showa, so there's a good benchmark), doing internal damage. A few of these, and a toss, and Heisei is at 'damage level 8,' with the joints threatening to buckle under basic tail-slaps. ("The joints won't hold up much longer!") It takes the distraction of Garuda for them to get up again, and apparently docking to restore functions.

Heisei's skin may be tougher than credited previously (makes sense, being synthetic diamonds)- but kinetic impacts still wreak havoc on the sensitive innards. He's still demonstrated a vulnerability to physical attack that transcends that of Kiryu (barely) and showa (who had King Caesar straddle and wail on him without any ill effect). And based on the power demonstrated in the various missile barrages, bladed attacks, exploding rocket-boosters, and other non-beam attacks from the majority of the other MechaGodzillas, I think that is indeed going to be a vulnerability that puts Heisei out early on. Not without doing some damage, and not 'instantly shredded' as suggested by some- but still an above-average vulnerability to non-energy attacks.

So, I would agree with you that there was some hyperbole and overstating of that vulnerability- but I believe the evidence does still support a higher susceptibility to damage from non-breaching kinetic impacts than most other MechaGs.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:08 pm
by LamangoKaijura
Inferno Rodan wrote:To everyone claiming Heisei MG is fragile to physical attacks, I'd like to point out that the holes caused by Godzilla were no longer there in the next shot and that Rodan's pecks only temporarily knocked out the eye lasers. The latter in spite of the fact that Rodan's pecks are actually pretty damn powerful, considering what happened when he hit solid rock with one of them.

Yeah yeah yeah, but the fact remains, he had holes spewing steam from being shoved over by Godzilla. Imagine what revolving missiles that can uproot a city block can do to him. Or an all out attack.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:38 am
by Gojirawars 03
Ok, so there has been some confusion regarding the definition of Showa Mechagodzilla being a hybrid in this match. I'd like to say that for a reference to his standard missiles and revolving missiles, I would define the difference as similar to the way Mechagodzilla 2 (1975) functions in the Godzilla PS4 video game, in which he has the ability to use his standard missiles at a high fire rate, but to use revolving missiles, the fire rate is far slower. Refer to this example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2MfnUSZIzE

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:47 pm
by PopInPicsPresents
Gojirawars 03 wrote:Ok, so there has been some confusion regarding the definition of Showa Mechagodzilla being a hybrid in this match. I'd like to say that for a reference to his standard missiles and revolving missiles, I would define the difference as similar to the way Mechagodzilla 2 (1975) functions in the Godzilla PS4 video game, in which he has the ability to use his standard missiles at a high fire rate, but to use revolving missiles, the fire rate is far slower. Refer to this example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2MfnUSZIzE


Literally just pick one of them from the movies, it's much less complicated and custom/video game characters aren't even allowed.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:42 am
by Gojirawars 03
Sorry again, everyone. I've re-edited and re-evaluated the OP, complete with my idea of how the battle would most likely go down. I would advise re-reading the OP for an idea of the updated guidelines and my projection of the battle. Apologies again for the confusion.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:21 am
by Breakdown
With the new rules, I'm tempted to call it a stalemate. Heisei Mechagodzilla will be thoroughly incapable of putting Anime down for good with his nanometal regen and his particle field. In the Prequel Novel, the almost fully mechanical Gigan was able to instantly regenerate any damage from Godzilla Earth's standard beams. It took a quote "particularly powerful" beam to totally destroy every trace of him. That should give us an idea of what Mechagodzilla's regen is like seeing as unlike Gigan, he's made entirely out of nanometal.

Then there's the particle field which will deflect any projectiles Heisei can throw at him, rendering nearly his entire arsenal useless. I'd firmly place my vote for Anime if we give his canon abilities the benefit of the doubt and take them as they're described. The Hyper Lance or Convergent Neutron Cannon will likely take Heisei out easily (or any of the MGs for that matter).

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:36 am
by Grievous
Well...

*Thinks*

As much as I want to say 74 takes it because of sheer FIREPOWER!!!
I have to say that I believe the Anime version we never really saw
would take this fight.

That nanometal is nasty stuff...& could clearly be used to assimilate
the other machines Borg style.

Granted if Kiryu hit it with the Absolute Zero cannon the story may
play out differently...but I'm not getting too in-depth on this one.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:28 am
by TheRealSpinoRex
Anime Mechagodzilla. His city can kill the other Mechs, and they will be absorbed by the City, and make the city more powerful.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:32 am
by Gojirawars 03
TheRealSpinoRex wrote:Anime Mechagodzilla. His city can kill the other Mechs, and they will be absorbed by the City, and make the city more powerful.

Mechagodzilla cannot access the form of Mechagodzilla City, only his base original form. Please read the original post completely.

Re: Every Major Incarnation of Mechagodzilla (Battle Royale)

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:40 am
by TheRealSpinoRex
Gojirawars 03 wrote:
TheRealSpinoRex wrote:Anime Mechagodzilla. His city can kill the other Mechs, and they will be absorbed by the City, and make the city more powerful.

Mechagodzilla cannot access the form of Mechagodzilla City, only his base original form. Please read the original post completely.


Then wouldn't that mean that Super Mechagodzilla can't access the Garuda? Also, if you watch the Wikizilla kaiju profile, Anime Mechagoji has a lot of weapons in his arsenal.

P.S If you mentioned this in the desc., i'm sorry. I haven't read it yet.