Pacific Rim vs. Rampage

[Inferno Rodan]

Knifehead - http://pacificrim.wikia.com/wiki/Knifehead_(Kaiju)

Otachi - http://pacificrim.wikia.com/wiki/Otachi_(Kaiju)

Mega-Kaiju - http://pacificrim.wikia.com/wiki/Mega-Kaiju

vs.

George - http://rampage.wikia.com/wiki/George

Ralph - http://rampage.wikia.com/wiki/Ralph

Lizzie - http://rampage.wikia.com/wiki/Lizzie

According to the artbook, their size stats are as follows:
George: 35 feet tall and 50,000 lbs.
Ralph: 45 feet tall, 40 feet long, and 40,000 lbs.
Lizzie: 50 feet tall, 200 feet long, and 120,000 lbs.

Rules:
-The PR kaiju are all their normal sizes from the movies.
-George and Ralph are scaled to comparable size with Knifehead and Otachi. Lizzie is scaled to be comparable to the Mega-Kaiju.

Arena: Chicago

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Gonna side with the Rampage trio here. They, and Lizzie in particular, are more durable than the PR kaiju. And really, Lizzie in general is the main deciding factor in this for me. She's a beast. Yeah, she's slow, but she's tanky as hell and when she gets her jaws on something... bad things are gonna happen to whatever it is.

[Demon Lord Gira]

.... this is a toughie for me, and the main reason why is Lizzie and the Mega-Kaiju. Yes, both are burly tanks, but the mega-kaiju's kinetic absorption and reflection capabilities are what makes me lean more for the PR Kaiju here. Lizzie's a nightmare, and whoever she clamps down on is probably going to die (and give her a bad case of acidic kaiju blood), but the mega-kaiju can definitely hit her back harder than Lizzie hits it, and I don't think Lizzie's going to enjoy that counter blow to the face.

Ralph and George are definitely more durable than otachi and Knifehead, and I can see them possibly overcoming the two, though Otachi is going to give whoever she faces absolute hell, either with her acid, her powerful tail, or just grabbing them and removing them from the fight entirely by taking them up TO SPAAAAACE. If George and Ralph can get past Otachi and Knifehead without getting too mangled by the PR Kaiju, they can definitely shift the tide in their favor against Mega-Kaiju. Otherwise... I just see monkeys and wolfs going flying with each hit.

[Tomzilla]

Would anyone happen to know what kinds of weapons the Rampage Trio were shrugging off? I recall George and Ralph shrugging off a bomb that left a decently sized impact crater.

[RamshackleRanger]

Would anyone happen to know what kinds of weapons the Rampage Trio were shrugging off? I recall George and Ralph shrugging off a bomb that left a decently sized impact crater.

Spoiler:

That warthog that lizzie shrugged off was definitely no joke. plus a belt of grenades directly in the gills... oof

[Inferno Rodan]

Would anyone happen to know what kinds of weapons the Rampage Trio were shrugging off? I recall George and Ralph shrugging off a bomb that left a decently sized impact crater.

On top of what Sensei said above, there was the part where Lizzie took 8 Hellfire missiles square to the face simultaneously and didn't even receive a scratch. Given the fact that those are dedicated armor-piercing missiles, that's nothing to scoff at considering her size. I couldn't quite tell what the armored vehicles deployed against them in the city were, but I THINK they were Strykers with 30mm cannons. The rounds from those were quite literally bouncing off Lizzie, and the other two didn't seem too bothered by them either.

[GigaBowserG]

Would anyone happen to know what kinds of weapons the Rampage Trio were shrugging off? I recall George and Ralph shrugging off a bomb that left a decently sized impact crater.

It's not much, but I recall Ralph being completely unharmed by a helicopter's spinning blades hitting his body as he was chowing down on the pilot. Compare that to KSI Kong who got his hand and arm hacked up. Can't remember if any PR monsters encountered a similar situation.

[Tomzilla]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!

Looks like the Rampage Trio -- even before receiving the scaling treatment -- had standard levels of kaiju durability, which is very impressive. Lizzie, as others have noted, is without question Rampage's heavy hitter. Lizzie would soundly beat Knifehead or Otachi in a fight, as her durability cancels out pretty much everything they have to throw at her, and they're royally screwed the moment her jaws clamp down on them. Maybe if they teamed up, they might squeeze out a win. Mega-Kaiju is a different story altogether. A clash between Lizzie and Mega-Kaiju would be monstrously entertaining to watch; however, I'm leaning slightly towards Mega-Kaiju because of its kinetic absorption powers and its many ways to utilize its strength and abilities to kill things.

Team Pacific Rim basically needs to do the following to win: 1) Keep Mega-Kaiju alive and active. 2) Kill or incapacitate Lizzie. If they can do this before Mega-Kaiju goes down, they win.

The Rampage Trio is facing a steeper challenge. Only Lizzie is strong enough to challenge Mega-Kaiju; George and Ralph, despite being impressive in their own right, are not equipped to combat Mega-Kaiju by themselves. In order to win, the Rampage Trio needs to do the following: 1) George and Ralph -- yes, both of them -- need to win their respective battles before lending their support to Lizzie. 2) Lizzie, Ralph, and George all need to team up on Mega-Kaiju.

I like Team Pacific Rim's chances more. So I'm leaning towards them.

[RamshackleRanger]

I think the problem the rampage crew will have is the fact that the mega kaiju is basically lizzie++. He's got her durability and power, plus smarts and agility. Otachi could probably take either ralph or george, and knifehead will hold his own long enough. 8/10 Pacific rim.

[Inferno Rodan]

For the record, I'm pretty certain the Mega-Kaiju can only use its kinetic redirection trick against attacks directed at its chest, since that's where Raijin's armor plates are according to the artbook. I only recall him using it like once in the movie anyway, so it won't be that much of a factor regardless.

I think the problem the rampage crew will have is the fact that the mega kaiju is basically lizzie++. He's got her durability and power, plus smarts and agility.

Mega-Kaiju got splattered across the landscape by a Jaeger falling on him. His durability isn't anywhere close to Lizzie's.

[Tomzilla]

For the record, I'm pretty certain the Mega-Kaiju can only use its kinetic redirection trick against attacks directed at its chest, since that's where Raijin's armor plates are according to the artbook. I only recall him using it like once in the movie anyway, so it won't be that much of a factor regardless.

But weren't the 4 Jaegers peppering him all over with their weapons from the start of the final fight? I could've sworn they did. I suppose it could also be argued that Mega-Kaiju used his kinetic absorption/redirection power only once because he didn't really need to use it again, on account of him being more than strong enough to rip the Jaegers to shreds. Regardless, we know Mega-Kaiju's kinetic absorption/redirection ability isn't automatic; Mega-Kaiju needs to consciously activate it. This might give the Rampage Trio a chance.

Mega-Kaiju got splattered across the landscape by a Jaeger falling on him. His durability isn't anywhere close to Lizzie's.

In regards to the bolded statement, I think you're selling this feat short. Mega-Kaiju got splattered from a Jaeger that had just finished building up a substantial amount of momentum, and when it finally hit, it hit with such a devastating amount of force that a similar strike would've killed or crippled most kaiju.

[Inferno Rodan]

But weren't the 4 Jaegers peppering him all over with their weapons from the start of the final fight? I could've sworn they did. I suppose it could also be argued that Mega-Kaiju used his kinetic absorption/redirection power only once because he didn't really need to use it again, on account of him being more than strong enough to rip the Jaegers to shreds. Regardless, we know Mega-Kaiju's kinetic absorption/redirection ability isn't automatic; Mega-Kaiju needs to consciously activate it. This might give the Rampage Trio a chance.

The way the redirection is explained in the artbook is that it's based on the movement of the armor plates building up a charge, like the brakes of an electric car. It wouldn't make much sense for attacks not directed specifically at them to contribute to said buildup as well. But admittedly my memory of the scene is getting a bit fuzzy at this point so who knows. Regardless, as you said, it's still something he has so consciously make use of.

In regards to the bolded statement, I think you're selling this feat short. Mega-Kaiju got splattered from a Jaeger that had just finished building up a substantial amount of momentum, and when it finally hit, it hit with such a devastating amount of force that a similar strike would've killed or crippled most kaiju.

*sigh*

I knew this was going to be a thing in FMs as soon as I saw it in the movie. It's the same deal as the scenes of Gamera and Gipsy Danger falling in GotU and PR, respectively. Falling is falling. It doesn't matter from how high, after a certain point terminal velocity is reached and the object doesn't go any faster. Gipsy Avenger would have hit Mega-Kaiju harder if they'd used the booster to further accelerate the fall instead of relying on gravity to do all the work.

[RamshackleRanger]

*sigh*

I knew this was going to be a thing in FMs as soon as I saw it in the movie. It's the same deal as the scenes of Gamera and Gipsy Danger falling in GotU and PR, respectively. Falling is falling. It doesn't matter from how high, after a certain point terminal velocity is reached and the object doesn't go any faster. Gipsy Avenger would have hit Mega-Kaiju harder if they'd used the booster to further accelerate the fall instead of relying on gravity to do all the work.

But gypsy did have extra propulsion. The plasmacaster was shot multiple times at an angle, giving both sideways and downwards propulsion. Plus, there was the massive explosion that her impact caused.

I don't think even a scaled up lizzie would survive that.

[Inferno Rodan]

But gypsy did have extra propulsion. The plasmacaster was shot multiple times at an angle, giving both sideways and downwards propulsion. Plus, there was the massive explosion that her impact caused.

The Plasmacaster showed minimal recoil during its numerous other uses. It was just used to adjust GA's trajectory so that it actually hit where they wanted it to (which, for the record, could have just been accomplished by moving its body -that's how skydivers do it and it seems to work fine for them- but that obviously wouldn't be nearly as dramatic or cool looking). Any extra speed it added to the fall would have been minuscule at best.

The explosion, just like Gamera and Gispy Danger getting heated during their falls, doesn't show anything beyond the fact that the writers can't into physics. Once the home release comes out, I'll happily calculate how fast GA was going when it hit, assuming the shot allows for such.

[RamshackleRanger]

But gypsy did have extra propulsion. The plasmacaster was shot multiple times at an angle, giving both sideways and downwards propulsion. Plus, there was the massive explosion that her impact caused.

The Plasmacaster showed minimal recoil during its numerous other uses. It was just used to adjust GA's trajectory so that it actually hit where they wanted it to (which, for the record, could have just been accomplished by moving its body -that's how skydivers do it and it seems to work fine for them- but that obviously wouldn't be nearly as dramatic or cool looking). Any extra speed it added to the fall would have been minuscule at best.

The explosion, just like Gamera and Gispy Danger getting heated during their falls, doesn't show anything beyond the fact that the writers can't into physics. Once the home release comes out, I'll happily calculate how fast GA was going when it hit, assuming the shot allows for such.

I don't think the explosion was because of the speed; It was probably because of the nuclear core stuffed in her chest and other various electronic components.

But then again, i don't know much about that category, so i could be wrong.

(Also, just FYI, the full scene is out on youtube if you'd like to calculate).

[Tomzilla]

I knew this was going to be a thing in FMs as soon as I saw it in the movie. It's the same deal as the scenes of Gamera and Gipsy Danger falling in GotU and PR, respectively. Falling is falling. It doesn't matter from how high, after a certain point terminal velocity is reached and the object doesn't go any faster. Gipsy Avenger would have hit Mega-Kaiju harder if they'd used the booster to further accelerate the fall instead of relying on gravity to do all the work.

Then perhaps SenseiTeriyakiV's point about Gipsy Avenger's nuclear core being responsible is more deserving of our time. It would explain the green explosion/shockwave that discharged the moment Gipsy Avenger made contact with Mega-Kaiju. So maybe Mega-Kaiju was more affected by the nuclear core exploding in its face than by the falling Jaeger? If Mega-Kaiju could wade through the attacks of four Jaegers and treat them like jokes, then I find it dubious that simply dropping a Jaeger -- without the buildup of momentum -- on him would do the trick.

To help put things into perspective, where would you rank Mega-Kaiju's durability? Are there any kaiju Mega-Kaiju has comparable levels of durability to (e.g. Mega-Kaiju's durability is comparable to Anguirus)?

And yes, in regards to your other posts, it's obvious the filmmakers either don't understand or simply don't care about physics. They're just doing what looks cool. But then where do we draw the line? We accept physics-defying feats all the time, which has been a trope in these fantasy discussions for several years.

[Inferno Rodan]

(Also, just FYI, the full scene is out on youtube if you'd like to calculate).

Calculating its speed requires counting individual frames, which doesn't really work with YouTube vids unfortunately.

To help put things into perspective, where would you rank Mega-Kaiju's durability? Are there any kaiju Mega-Kaiju has comparable levels of durability to (e.g. Mega-Kaiju's durability is comparable to Anguirus)?

GFW Gigan. Both got splattered by a smaller opponent colliding with them at high speed. Granted that assessment could change pending more detailed analysis of the footage.

And yes, in regards to your other posts, it's obvious the filmmakers either don't understand or simply don't care about physics. They're just doing what looks cool. But then where do we draw the line? We accept physics-defying feats all the time, which has been a trope in these fantasy discussions for several years.

We draw the line, as I've explained in the past with Gamera's and Gispy Danger's falls, at trying to apply values to things for which values cannot be applied because they simply don't make sense. I.E. saying Gamera and GD are extremely durable/heat resistant because they "survived re-entry." I won't bother going into detail why that's wrong here, since it's not specifically relevant to this FM, but it basically boils down to the fact that they didn't survive re-entry and thus applying the stresses of re-entry to what happened to them in an attempt to inflate their durability feats is extremely faulty. Another example would be the entire stupidity of the GFW Kumonga throw, where he accelerates faster and faster the further he goes and would need to be traveling thousands of miles per hour to disappear as quickly as he did. Or HB Godzilla's eye lasers melting concrete, even though concrete doesn't melt. Hence why I'm waiting to be able to properly analyze the footage to get an accurate read of how fast GA was going at the point of impact.

[RamshackleRanger]

(Also, just FYI, the full scene is out on youtube if you'd like to calculate).

Calculating its speed requires counting individual frames, which doesn't really work with YouTube vids unfortunately.

To help put things into perspective, where would you rank Mega-Kaiju's durability? Are there any kaiju Mega-Kaiju has comparable levels of durability to (e.g. Mega-Kaiju's durability is comparable to Anguirus)?

GFW Gigan. Both got splattered by a smaller opponent colliding with them at high speed. Granted that assessment could change pending more detailed analysis of the footage.

I mean... mothra didn't really have a nuclear core inside of her, but alright.

[Inferno Rodan]

I mean... mothra didn't really have a nuclear core inside of her, but alright.

And throwing a nuclear reactor at something won't make it explode. That's not how they work.

[RamshackleRanger]

I mean... mothra didn't really have a nuclear core inside of her, but alright.

And throwing a nuclear reactor at something won't make it explode. That's not how they work.

Like you said, the creators were ignoring physics. More likely than not they didn't give a damn if that was how it worked - there was still a massive explosion caused by it. That and a flaming moth crashing into something isn't exactly a fair comparison.

[Inferno Rodan]

Like you said, the creators were ignoring physics. More likely than not they didn't give a damn if that was how it worked - there was still a massive explosion caused by it. That and a flaming moth crashing into something isn't exactly a fair comparison.

Thank you for perfectly exemplifying precisely the type of logic I was referring to a couple posts ago. There was a "massive explosion" that, from what I recall, didn't do anything to the surrounding area. No crater, no scorched ground. The only things affected were Mega-Kaiju and Gipsy Avenger. It was all flash and no substance. A pretty effect and nothing else. You're trying to assign value to something that has no value. Do you think like all Heisei Toho kaiju are electrically charged because there's sparks every time they bump into each other? I certainly hope not.

Again, my assessment could change once the home release comes out, but until then that's how I see it based off of memory and incomplete YouTube clips.