Smaug vs 2014 Godzilla

[American Godzilla]

Here is an interesting match up...

Smaug (movie version)
http://68.media.tumblr.com/df0c841a46d8 ... 1_1280.jpg
Length: 141 meters {462' 7"}
Intelligence: Human level
Name: Smaug
Length: 141 meters {462' 7"}
Intelligence: Human level
Abilities: Flight; Amored Skin {all except underbelly is invulnerable, underbelly takes an exceptional weapon like the legendary magical Black Arrow to pierce}; Dragon Gaze {By staring into their eyes, dragons had the power to bewilder, compel or even completely paralyze mortals... enabling it to take control of that person; commanding the will and emotional state of the individual.}; Long Lifespan; Sharp Claws/Teeth; Dragon Fire Breath.

2014 Godzilla
Height: 355'
Abilities: Atomic Plasma Breath {Super-heated ionized Plasma, Nuclear radiation, Pressurized air}; Tough Armored Hide {can withstand a 15 megaton nuke}; Can breath Air/Water; Can sense Nuclear Materials; Great Physical Strength.


Who would win?: I've heard from various sources that Tolkien's dragons had scales that were invulnerable (as this is a magical world, this can be done) except for the underbelly. Even then, as far as I've heard it took a powerful magical item to pierce the underbelly. So unless Godzilla could actually spot the small patch (Smaug's only remaining weak spot) I doubt even the atomic breath would do much of any harm to the magical Dragon if struck anywhere else. Likewise, Smaug's fire isn't hot enough to hurt Godzilla.

Smaug could use his 'gaze' ability. This could leave Godzilla in a vulnerable position. Smaug could command Godzilla to kill himself for example. Another plus for Smaug over Godzilla is Smaug's superior intelligence. 2014 Godzilla was semi-sentient, meaning he was very smart but below the human level of intelligence. Smaug could quickly learn that his breath and claws are powerless against Godzilla, but his gaze and intelligence would be his main weapons vs Godzilla.

So as a final verdict, I say Smaug would win against 2014 Godzilla due to his greater intelligence and his 'Dragon Gaze' ability.

[Zarm]

I'm not sure that I'd count Godzilla as a mortal and so susceptible to the gaze. (And I don't even know if he COULD kill himself.) I'd also say that the nuclear breath has an area of effect powerful enough to encompass the armor-chink without seeing it, and there's no indication that the kiss-of-death manuever wouldn't work (particularly when his mouth is open to breathe fire).

I'd lean toward a stalemate, personally.

But it is a very interesting question! Good match!

[American Godzilla]

I'm not sure that I'd count Godzilla as a mortal and so susceptible to the gaze. (And I don't even know if he COULD kill himself.) I'd also say that the nuclear breath has an area of effect powerful enough to encompass the armor-chink without seeing it, and there's no indication that the kiss-of-death manuever wouldn't work (particularly when his mouth is open to breathe fire).

I'd lean toward a stalemate, personally.

I almost leaned that way myself, but then I read more about that "Dragon Gaze" and wondered about its effect vs Godzilla.

This incarnation of Godzilla was described as the (possibly) last survivor of an ancient race of Godzillas (heck even the 2014 film mentioned a previous godzilla skeleton with Muto Spores in it) so this Godzilla is an animal species, thus mortal.

Now the GMK Godzilla is not a mortal as it's described an entity created by the angry spirits.

[Demon Lord Gira]

... I feel so sorry for Smaug right now. He's so utterly outclassed by Godzilla here, it's not funny. Even if Smaug tried to use the gaze offensively in a fight (he never did it against the dwarves or the humans in laketown), I doubt it would work on something like Godzilla, who'd just bulldoze into Smaug, push him down, and stomp a crater in his chest. Smaug tries to fly away, Godzilla chases him down and yanks him back to earth, and what are Smaug's flames going to do to Godzilla?

[RamshackleRanger]

... I feel so sorry for Smaug right now. He's so utterly outclassed by Godzilla here, it's not funny. Even if Smaug tried to use the gaze offensively in a fight (he never did it against the dwarves or the humans in laketown), I doubt it would work on something like Godzilla, who'd just bulldoze into Smaug, push him down, and stomp a crater in his chest. Smaug tries to fly away, Godzilla chases him down and yanks him back to earth, and what are Smaug's flames going to do to Godzilla?

I completely agree, but what's all this junk about godzilla stomping holes in people? We never saw him do it, and him stepping on the female MUTO did very little than pin her down and maybe knock her breath out a little. It's ridiculous.

If anything, he's either going to tail slam smaug or just rip a chunk from his neck. The heat of his nreath won't do much, but i'm fairly certain smaug doesn't have much defense against nuclear radiation.

[Zarm]

Besides, this is the movie version of Smaug, so first Godzilla will launch and attack, and then Smaug will retaliate... by going and attacking Mothra or something. A target completely unrelated to the clear-and-present enemy directly in front of him. And knowing his luck, he'll die there, before Godzilla ever has a second shot at him.

[American Godzilla]

Besides, this is the movie version of Smaug, so first Godzilla will launch and attack, and then Smaug will retaliate... by going and attacking Mothra or something. A target completely unrelated to the clear-and-present enemy directly in front of him. And knowing his luck, he'll die there, before Godzilla ever has a second shot at him.

If Mothra's instinct towards bright lights were the same as regular moths, then Smaug could set a forest/field on fire and Mothra couldn't help herself but fly into it

Here's a thought (for Smaug vs Godzilla 2014), aside from the 'Dragon Gaze' Smaug might try to go after the gills as that region "might" be a very weak section compared to the armored scales on the rest of his body (Godzilla did seem to react more when missiles were fired at the gills than anywhere else).

[Demon Lord Gira]

... I feel so sorry for Smaug right now. He's so utterly outclassed by Godzilla here, it's not funny. Even if Smaug tried to use the gaze offensively in a fight (he never did it against the dwarves or the humans in laketown), I doubt it would work on something like Godzilla, who'd just bulldoze into Smaug, push him down, and stomp a crater in his chest. Smaug tries to fly away, Godzilla chases him down and yanks him back to earth, and what are Smaug's flames going to do to Godzilla?

I completely agree, but what's all this junk about godzilla stomping holes in people? We never saw him do it, and him stepping on the female MUTO did very little than pin her down and maybe knock her breath out a little. It's ridiculous.

If anything, he's either going to tail slam smaug or just rip a chunk from his neck. The heat of his nreath won't do much, but i'm fairly certain smaug doesn't have much defense against nuclear radiation.

The only reason it did jack to the female MUTO is because she's heavily armored, far more than Smaug here. Literally everything thrown at her failed to do much of anything, and even the atomic ray only knocked her out for a small period of time. Smaug... won't have that kind of luxury.

[Zarm]

I definitely favor Godzilla here, but I do have to admit, having a (possibly-mystically) indestructible hide does give Smaug an advantage here. Now, I don't know whether indestructible simply means 'impenetrable by sharp objects (but still vulnerable to crushing, having the jaw snapped, etc.)' or if that mystical nature creates a general indestructibility that extends to absorbing body blows and crushing force without injury, which would be a major determining factor. Either way, Smaug is heavily armored )save for the single chink); that is his very specific nature and the key aspect that makes him difficult to defeat. Only that small chink (penetrable by average arrows in the book, but in the film version only pray to a very specific sort of weapon- though whether due to mystical nature or construction from macguffin materials is not clear, iirc)- and, in theory, an open mouth/eyes, are exceptions to a total invulnerability. It's just the nature of the invulnerability that is ill-defined.

Technically, though, Smaug compares very favorably to the MUTOs, with the male MUTO's agility and flight combined with the female MUTO's indestructibility.

[Inferno Rodan]

I completely agree, but what's all this junk about godzilla stomping holes in people? We never saw him do it, and him stepping on the female MUTO did very little than pin her down and maybe knock her breath out a little. It's ridiculous.

The male swooped in and saved her ass by dragging Godzilla off her after a few seconds, that's why it didn't do much.

It's just the nature of the invulnerability that is ill-defined.

Not only that, but you have to take into consideration the context of this "invulnerability." I readily admit to not being terribly well versed in the LotR universe, but as far as I'm aware the most powerful weapons available are things like ballistas, trebuchets, and the like. Virtually any kaiju that isn't complete trash would be considered invulnerable against such weaponry. It's really not comparable to fighting another kaiju, especially one as physically formidable as LP Godzilla.

[Kiryu2012]

Godzilla wins. Smaug just doesn't seem tough enough to survive much of what Godzilla can dish out, and I highly doubt the gaze ability will be used here considering Smaug never used it in battle.

[Zarm]

Keep in mind that the film speaks of an alliance between the Necromancer (partial-strength Sauron) and Smaug, in terms of an equal or near-equal partnership. This is treated (both here and in the book appendices) as a major crisis to be averted; to the extent of potentially rendering Sauron undefeatable. At no point is there any implication that Gandalf can simply slay the dragon (were he with them); along with his fear of an alliance, this suggests a power level potentially equal to (or even greater than) the Balrog.

Admittedly, this is all innuendo and supposition, based in the lack of any concrete evidence- but the threat level here implies a power level that I think is not being credited to Smaug in this match. I'm not saying he'd win (I see it more as a potential stalemate, as I said, with neither side being able to easily damage the other), but I think he's being dismissed a little too easily without considering the full parameters of the character (inasfar as we can determine them with the information given).

Feels like first-off needs to be an agreement by all parties how to handle the invulnerability claim- which appears to be an out-of-universe, objective statement from the original post, rather than an in-universe 'invulnerable to the primitive resources we have here' statement; if taken as a given (literally indestructible barring enchanted weaponry), that automatically overrides much of the reasoning in this thread which seems primarily based on a lack of durability. If, on the other hand, it is qualified as 'relative to primitive weaponry only,' then we'd need to look at actual durability feats; I seem to recall several heavy loads being dropped on him without harm, projectile weapons deflected, and being immersed in molten gold without any ill effects; there may be other that I recall. At least some of those (temperature, kinetic force/weight/impact-resistance) ought to help level-set performance at a kaiju scale.

[Spuro]

Apologies for bringing this back from the dead, but I stumbled on some... interesting information regarding Smaug in an interview with the VFX Supervisor for Desolation of Smaug.

The link is here: http://www.artofvfx.com/the-hobbit-the- ... a-digital/

If you don't have time to read the full thing, here's the subject of interest:

Smaug’s magnificent presence was brought to life by dozens of animators and artists using keyframe animation techniques. Twice the size of a 747 jumbo jet, Smaug has 300 individual bones, upwards of a million hand-drawn scales and 100 simulated muscles not including nine unique secondary simulation elements like the neck wattle and wing membrane wrinkles. A custom anticipatory muscle firing system was implemented to recreate the biological responses required to move a creature of that size.
Smaug’s fire was a focal point for the development of the character. Starting with the internal glow inside his chest and neck, Smaug creates a fuel-based fire that ignites deep in the throat of the dragon and bursts forth with terrifying power. Created with an in-house fire simulation tool, Odin, the output of the larger fire blasts registered just over 10 Kilotons of TNT.

So... yeah.

And unlike most fan theories, this comes from the guy in charge of creating Smaug. This comes from an in-house simulation tool. If that isn't legit I don't know what is. Now obviously the fire isn't explosive, of course, otherwise the entire mountain would have been blown apart after his first blast. More likely he means an energy equivalent equal to 10 kilotons of TNT. Still, for a creature of Smaug's size, that's extremely impressive. It makes you wonder what this shit would be like scaled up to Godzilla's size.

Seems we may have underestimated Smaug a bit.

[Zarm]

Seems we may have underestimated Smaug a bit.

Quite so...

(Makes it even more ridiculous those dwarves could survive by just hiding behind a few pillars...)

[Spuro]

Seems we may have underestimated Smaug a bit.

Quite so...

(Makes it even more ridiculous those dwarves could survive by just hiding behind a few pillars...)

Obviously they're magic dwarven pillars. They grant +100 to fire resistance.

[Inferno Rodan]

And unlike most fan theories, this comes from the guy in charge of creating Smaug. This comes from an in-house simulation tool. If that isn't legit I don't know what is. Now obviously the fire isn't explosive, of course, otherwise the entire mountain would have been blown apart after his first blast. More likely he means an energy equivalent equal to 10 kilotons of TNT. Still, for a creature of Smaug's size, that's extremely impressive. It makes you wonder what this poop would be like scaled up to Godzilla's size.

Seems we may have underestimated Smaug a bit.

The only way that measurement makes any sense is if they're talking about fireball size. Little Boy (the bomb dropped on Hiroshima) had a yield of ~15 kilotons and produced a fireball 370 meters in diameter. That seems to jive pretty well with the amount of fire Smaug puts out, given his size and that 10 kiloton number. It's really not all that impressive and doesn't mean a whole lot, despite what the initial knee-jerk thought is to seeing the number, because it's still just fire. It's a lot of fire, sure, but it's still just fire. There's also the fact that the "yield" of Smaug's breath is spread out over the duration of a couple seconds, while that of an explosion is basically instantaneous. It's kinda like those factoids that say a hurricane contains 1000x more energy than all of the nuclear weapons on the planet combined. It's not wrong, technically speaking, but it is misleading.