Neon Genesis Evangelion

[LegendZilla]

Sorry to go a bit off topic, but have any have you checked out Eva's sister series, Nadia : Secret of Blue Water?

[Dillyziller]

I always Loved watching this clip from near the end of the series.
https://youtu.be/aPyQ6dHsG3I
Btw, how the hell does Rei exist in this alternate reality?

[kamilleblu]

Since this is slightly related, are there any particular influences from Eva anyone wouldn't mind seeing in Godzilla (2016)? Something that hasn't been done in Godzilla before.

Really weird powers that defy the laws of physics (even more so I mean).

I know one of the monsters, scuse me, "angels" was a ball in the sky but it turned out that was it's shadow and the big black shadow on the ground was it's body. So it projects it's colored shadow in the middle of the air.

An angel-type opponent would be original for the Godzilla series. Opens the door for new battle and city destruction possibilities.

[Inferno Rodan]

An Angel-like monster simply would not work as an opponent for Godzilla. As much as I love Ramiel and the like, Godzilla needs something he can actually FIGHT with. Not some bizarre modern art sculpture with a weird gimmick power.

[MandaSaurus]

Sachiel is a giant humanoid. Zeruel uses a physical attack. Why not?

[Inferno Rodan]

Sachiel is the exception, not the rule. Shamshel too, to an extent.

Zeruel doesn't work either. He's a barely mobile assault platform. Just a variant of the same concept that Ramiel uses. At least Spacegodzilla and Super Mechagodzilla have more than 2 attack options at their disposal and can still (sorta) fight physically if pressed. That's my point about the Angels. Nearly all of them are 1-trick ponies that, while interesting to see humans come up with ways to overcome them, simply don't work as opponents for Godzilla. That's why an Angel-like opponent wouldn't really work in a Godzilla movie.

[Dillyziller]

Sachiel is the exception, not the rule. Shamshel too, to an extent.

Zeruel doesn't work either. He's a barely mobile assault platform. Just a variant of the same concept that Ramiel uses. At least Spacegodzilla and Super Mechagodzilla have more than 2 attack options at their disposal and can still (sorta) fight physically if pressed. That's my point about the Angels. Nearly all of them are 1-trick ponies that, while interesting to see humans come up with ways to overcome them, simply don't work as opponents for Godzilla. That's why an Angel-like opponent wouldn't really work in a Godzilla movie.

Well it might just work if the Godzilla in the film is suitable for an opponent like that. Like if this Godzilla is a beam spammer, it can just be an all out laser war. But I don't want another later-heisei Godzilla.

[edgaguirus]

I've always pictured Gaghiel and Godzilla going into it. However, all Gaghiel has is teeth and that long tail.

[BlankAccount]

Sachiel is the exception, not the rule. Shamshel too, to an extent.

Zeruel doesn't work either. He's a barely mobile assault platform. Just a variant of the same concept that Ramiel uses. At least Spacegodzilla and Super Mechagodzilla have more than 2 attack options at their disposal and can still (sorta) fight physically if pressed. That's my point about the Angels. Nearly all of them are 1-trick ponies that, while interesting to see humans come up with ways to overcome them, simply don't work as opponents for Godzilla. That's why an Angel-like opponent wouldn't really work in a Godzilla movie.

Well it might just work if the Godzilla in the film is suitable for an opponent like that. Like if this Godzilla is a beam spammer, it can just be an all out laser war. But I don't want another later-heisei Godzilla.

If there's anything we learn from the 90's, it's that people want Godzilla to have a variety of fighting styles, not just ray spams.

[kamilleblu]

Make Israfel, Gaghiel, and Sachiel slightly more mobile and you'll probably have an interesting battle on your hands. If you want to head in the Godzilla: the Asuka Fortress route, a modified Bardiel/Mass Production Evangelion type opponent would work. It's true that most of the designs are humanoid, though I'm mainly interested in the powers they displayed.
Israfel

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Sachiel

Spoiler:

Gaghiel

Spoiler:

Bardiel

Spoiler:

Mass Production Eva

Spoiler:

Also, you could be more creative/buff up the monster from Giant God Warrior Appears in Tokyo

Spoiler:

[Rody]

Sorry to go a bit off topic, but have any have you checked out Eva's sister series, Nadia : Secret of Blue Water?

I have; I was kind of pushing other members here to start watching it over in the 2016 sub-forum. It's a bumpy show, but I thought it was bold and entertaining.

[MDK]

Isn't Shinji's design the same as the main character from Nadia with different hair? lol

[G-Matt]

Isn't Shinji's design the same as the main character from Nadia with different hair? lol

Yes, Yoshiyuki Sadamoto has admitted that himself.

[Tohosaurus]

The 1st and 2nd rebuild films were pretty good. I hated the 3rd one.

It's taking forever just for them to get us the third film on Region A1 home media before I can even think about the final film.

Ultimately I find myself more interested by the concepts within the Rebuild films than the films themselves (or at least the first two since I haven't seen 3.0). While they're good I find Shinji kinda whiny and difficult to connect with; I end up enjoying the excellent music, nice visuals, and universe building/exposition. And I haven't seen the original series or its associated movies to draw other conclusions.

The sad thing about this, is that I have more faith in Anno with Godzilla than Gareth with Godzilla.

I love Gareth's take on Godzilla, it's honestly one of my Top 5 favorite Godzilla Films, but Anno has a certain love for Toku.
His love for Ultraman made into Eva, and for Godzilla, I can see him taking easy steps about messing with things.

Anno's major problem with working on Godzilla is likely the stress of thinking that this is "His" Godzilla and that he only has one shot to do it. He can do it, but the choices for Old or New Monster, approach, message, imagery, and etc is where it will get him.

There's no doubt it'll be exciting to see what Anno can come up with for a sort of re-imagining of Godzilla. We've seen Edwards' and though I like his ideas I don't think the writing for Godzilla was as good as it might have been and the cutaways will probably always bother me to some degree. Good movie and good Godzilla movie. Hopefully it'll popularize the franchise in the US and overseas, but regardless I don't think it was the next "big thing" for the franchise aside from its scale. I'm speaking purely in terms of concepts and treatment for the franchise, as both Hollywood Godzillas had a huge scale for the brand that make them significant for that reason alone. But IMO the last "special" Godzilla films were in the 80s, maybe GMK too. I hope he'll go with more original elements (kaiju included) because I think the overuse of retreads from the 90s through today have held the franchise back, even if Toho would point towards the ironic status of King Ghidorah, Mothra, and Mechagodzilla. The franchise really needs a thematic breath of fresh air. Anno can do it, but we'll see if the team can and is allowed to do it.

An Angel-like monster simply would not work as an opponent for Godzilla. As much as I love Ramiel and the like, Godzilla needs something he can actually FIGHT with. Not some bizarre modern art sculpture with a weird gimmick power.

It's an interesting topic, to be sure. I think it highly depends on how Godzilla is to interact with an Angel-type creature. The two can have interwoven roles in the film but not necessarily fight in some capacity. However, I would say I think it'd challenging, even unnecessarily challenging, to try and make it work.

[Rody]

I don't know if anyone else caught this (I only just found out): The Essential Evangelion Chronicle (Side A) was officially released in English last week, and Side B is scheduled for release in August/September. This is, from what I can tell, one of the most extensive and invaluable collections of EVA information available. I don't know about the rest of you, but as someone who's just revisiting the franchise, the timing couldn't be better!

[G-Matt]

I don't know if anyone else caught this (I only just found out): The Essential Evangelion Chronicle (Side A) was officially released in English last week, and Side B is scheduled for release in August/September. This is, from what I can tell, one of the most extensive and invaluable collections of EVA information available. I don't know about the rest of you, but as someone who's just revisiting the franchise, the timing couldn't be better!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81Fhp9xGXaL.jpg

Planning to get that book myself very soon.

[Rody]

Yesterday I officially finished Sadamoto's manga adaptation of Neon Genesis Evangelion - and I think my appreciation went up several notches. NGE is, no doubt about it, a messed-up, tragic, and often downright cruel story; but ALL the characters are engaging and sympathetic in their own ways, even if they aren't actually likable. Sadamoto's ending is much more cohesive and satisfying now than EoE was when I watched it, and I feel it ended on the best note possible. For all of its sci-fi, psychological and pseudo-religious trappings, NGE really is an intimate human story, and I admire it for that.
I've been strongly inclined to review the original series and the Rebuild films, but maybe I'll wait a little longer to digest Sadamoto's version.

[LegendZilla]

I'm not sure if the footage showing that composite Eva Unit will make it into the final film.

[Rody]

It's been almost three years to the day(wow) since I first watched the Rebuild films and posted my thoughts here. Since I still haven't seen 3.0, I decided to watch the first two Rebuild films again before I finally seek out the third film, as my patience for the stateside release seems to have finally run out.

I just finished Evangelion 1.11: You Are (not) Alone a little while ago, so I'm finishing up organizing my thoughts about it.

Although my memory of the original series is sketchy at this point, I think 1.11 tries to follow the series a little too strictly for its own good. The story feels episodic in nature, which doesn't always translate that well to film format; one example in particular is how Rei Ayanami is largely ignored until the third act. Some characters and plot lines are presented and resolved with less focus than they perhaps deserved, such as Shinji's relationship with classmates Suzuhara and Aida, or his walkabout after the battle with Samshel; other plot lines, like the introduction of SEELE and the awakening of Kaworu, felt like distractions from a story not yet advanced enough to handle them. I can't help but wonder if they would have been better off axed altogether.
...So what is the movie's story about? It's about Shinji Ikari, plain and simple. I've never shared the vitriol the character seems to get from most people, and although I can understand it to a certain degree, I think it's largely undeserved. There's no doubt that Shinji is no Shonen hero. He's a true child at heart; yet I find this to be the reason he is compelling. Here Shinji has been thrust into an impossible situation, with no preparation, no real expectation, and even no support. Shinji has every right to fight and resist, because he simply doesn't understand, and no one has offered to explain. In spite of all this, however, Shinji finds something important; he may not fully realize it until the end of the film, but as soon as he sees frail, injured Rei carted in to pilot EVA-01, Shinji has something to fight for. This is Shinji's struggle: he has no aspirations or self-respect. His father abandoned him, and no evidence is given to what sort of upbringing he might have had. Furthermore, his battles with the angels appear to him to cause more harm than help - again, Shinji can't yet fully grasp the scope of his new job, and can only see the results directly affecting him. It's not until right before the climax, when Misato shows him what is hidden in central dogma, that Shinji begins to realize the responsibility he's been given; perhaps more importantly, it's not until he recognizes Rei as a kindred spirit that he finds the strength - little though it may be - to remain and continue fighting. For perhaps the first time in a long while, Shinji is not alone: he reaches a sense of respect with his classmates, he may find some guidance in Misato, and there's a good sense that, even if Shinji is suffering, perhaps now he can at least suffer together with Rei.
Studio Khara did an exceptional job with this film as their first feature, from a technical standpoint. The entire film is beautifully designed and animated. The 3D animation is blended almost seamlessly with the 2D. Although I think I prefer the harder blacks of the old animation styles, colors here are rich and vibrant, and details are still incredibly sharp. Shiro Sagisu offers up a fine soundtrack that blends classic themes from the original series with new twists and tracks. Voice acting sounds pretty good overall as well.
One thing I hadn't really considered about Evangelion before is the sense of scale. Scale is something I admire and look for often in films, especially for genres like mecha and giant monsters. Evangelion 1.11 doesn't fall short in that aspect; everything about the settings and events - from the mere size of the angels and eva's, or the vast consructs of Tokyo-3 and the geofront, to the intense destruction of the battles and intimate technological details of NERV equipment - conveys how HUGE this story is. If blacking out the entire nation of Japan, in order to charge one gun, in order to kill one angel, doesn't convey how formidably powerful that angel is*, then nothing can.

Overall, I think I actually like the film about the same as the first time I saw it, although I'd like to think my understanding of the film's strengths and weaknesses has improved since then. Evangelion 1.11 is somewhat unremarkable outside of the art/animation aspects, but it is a fairly solid introduction to a new adaptation of the Evangelion series.

*Seriously, Ramiel is freaking awesome here. Sachiel and Samshel are pretty much unchanged, but boy is Ramiel a sight to behold. I really enjoy the visual style of Evangelion's monsters.


Edit: ...So, I decided to also watch Evangelion 2.22: You Can (not) Advance tonight, because why not?
(apologies for making this huge post even huger)

Right from the start, this feels like a very different movie from 1.11. 2.22 begins to establish a new identity for the Rebuild series, as it integrates the stories from the original show into a new narrative. With bigger and bolder action sequences, and a generally friendlier atmosphere (at least for the first half), 2.22 starts out fun - which might seem odd for Evangelion. That's not to say the story is all fun & games, however. Although Shinji appears much more comfortable in his environment than before, there are still issues dwelling under the surface - namely, his strained relationship with his father. Shinji's bond with his father is still the strongest he has in the world, and he clearly wants to make that bond a positive one. This relationship affects more people than father & son: Rei Ayanami, as Shinji's friend and Commander Ikari's... Associate?... Makes her own effort to mend the bond between them. Relationships really seem to be the driving point of the film, more so than the first. Asuka Langley Shikinami, the second child, makes an explosive entrance, but behind her aggressive demeanor is a child as lonely as Shinji, who just might be jealous of Shinji & Ayanami for their friendship - not to mention frustrated that they appear to be favored due to their connections with father-figure Gendo Ikari. In the meantime, fellow newcomer & SEELE/NERV agent Ryogi Kaji pursues his own relationship with Misato Katsuragi, albeit in somewhat roundabout ways. Sadly, we don't get much about Kaji, but we do get to see him confide in Shinji somewhat, both offering Shinji advice and asking for his protection of Misato. All in all, Shinji remains the center point, and as these relationships, new & old, begin to build, Shinji appears to be growing stronger - until it all comes crashing down in the incident involving Eva Unit-03. The results of the incident - brutal and shocking - completely destroy any faith Shinji may have had with his father, and as a result, Shinji not only prepares to cut ties with the commander, but everyone else around him too. It's a frustrating moment, watching such drastic action be taken, but I think it illustrates how fragile Shinji still is. His new-found strength is misdirected, and all Shinji can feel is frustration and defiance. Yet Shinji still has a little fight in him, as illustrated gloriously after the tenth angel - the biggest and strongest yet - lays waste to Tokyo-3 and places the precious Ayanami's life in dire threat. What ensues is a startling display of both selflessness and selfishness, as Shinji gives his all to hold on to the one thing/person he still truly values - no matter the cost.
If there's one character that feels truly lacking, it's yet another newcomer - not only to the series but to the entire franchise - the fourth child Mari. Mari is a stark contrast to the other pilots, but not entirely in a good way. She relishes piloting even more than Asuka, and seems generally upbeat in personality, but no real background or development is offered her in the film, making her presence seem random at worst and oddly convenient at best (due to events after the Unit-03 incident). It's possible her story simply has yet to be told, but for this film on its own, she sticks out like a sore thumb.
There are other mysteries to go around, too: the mysterious agendas of SEELE and Commander Ikari, first hinted at in 1.11, are teased even more in 2.22. Little is offered to suggest concrete clues as to what all is afoot, but once again, Shinji - and Rei - are implied to be significant in upcoming events, giving Shinji's character development an insidious edge that may yet prove Shinji's cynical attitude right. The Evangelion franchise has always been complicated, and 2.22 proves to be no exception.
Like the previous film, Studio Khara presents an impressive job of art & animation with You Can (not) Advance. Everything about the move feels even bigger than before, from the lively and bustling city of Tokyo-3, to NERV's technological and military establishments, to the terrifying and utterly bizarre angels that continue to threaten humanity. Two brand new angels appear in the first half of the film, followed by Sahaquiel and Zeruel, both of which are featured with outstanding new designs and abilities to give the Evangelions and their pilots the most intense fights possible. Shiro Sagisu returns to score the film, recycling a few tracks from his work on the classic romance anime His and Her Circumstances, but also bringing a healthy new set of grandiose-sounding pieces to deliver what may be one of his best musical scores yet.

Evangelion 2.22 is, in my opinion, an overall more entertaining movie than 1.11, and a step in the right direction for the new series. I'm excited to watch 3.0 and see where the story leads from here.

[Dillyziller]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKgjBZiQB8c
Skip just to 0:10. You should get Ultraman AND Godzilla vibes. Noticed it after watching again.