General Gamera Thread

[Destorogoji]

Yeah, I like Jiger too. The concept of the baby Jiger inside Gamera was so weird and funny.

[Chrispy_G]

When I get a chance to watch them all in again in proper HD and proper aspect ratios in the Box Set, I'm sure I'll be able to really re-evaluate them. Jiger was not as un-enjoyable as Zigra(which was still fun) and both were better than Super Monster...which to me just feels like '15th anniversary fun-time look back on Gamera's greatest hits with a weird story trying it together' type of experiment as opposed to an actual entry in the series.

The recurring aspect of 'show footage from and talk about events of previous films' is kind of fun because, while not an example of 'strong story/character continuity' like say the Heisei Trilogy showcases....it does sort of unify them all and doesn't make any of them feel like outlier. Each successive film seems to so show of footage from and solidify the place of some or all of the previous entries by recalling the footage.

[Ivo-goji]

Viras lifting an entire destruction sequence from the original black and white Gamera film and treating it as if it depicted the aliens mind controlling Gamera in the present is one of the most brazenly crazy abuses of stock footage I've ever seen. It blows the stock footage manipulation in the Showa Godzilla films out of the water.

[Gigantis]

Viras lifting an entire destruction sequence from the original black and white Gamera film and treating it as if it depicted the aliens mind controlling Gamera in the present is one of the most brazenly crazy abuses of stock footage I've ever seen. It blows the stock footage manipulation in the Showa Godzilla films out of the water.

They didn't go under for another two decades but you could already see the signs of Daiei's bankruptcy.

[Chrispy_G]

Viras lifting an entire destruction sequence from the original black and white Gamera film and treating it as if it depicted the aliens mind controlling Gamera in the present is one of the most brazenly crazy abuses of stock footage I've ever seen. It blows the stock footage manipulation in the Showa Godzilla films out of the water.

Yeah, when I was saying good things about the stock footage usage, I meant when they would have flashbacks/narration referring to the actual past events of the films.

Although the CRAZY-LONG like 18 minute montage in Viras, and then using footage from the original Gamera as 'actual footage' are absolutely egregious and unnecessary. Those I don't like, nor do I like the use in Super Monster. It just makes that movie not feel like a movie at all, it feels like some 'look back' special or something.

But when the characters talk about the previous events and we get a few minutes of footage(Guiron comes to mind, but it feels like they did it in a number of movies, my memory might be off)....I do rather like that.

One thing I like is that they didn't kill Gamera in the original movie...so unlike Godzilla there is no 'that was the original, this is a new one' stuff. It is one Gamera throughout the series.

I prefer that the Heisei Era and the Millennium films are each a full reboot vs the 'sequel to the original' approach the Heisei Godzilla series and Millennium series took. I get WHY, but full, clean reboots from scratch are 'neater' in my opinion.

Added in 1 month 12 days 2 hours 57 minutes 2 seconds:
So...thanks to god ole' YouTube I was actually able to view both Gamera vs Barugon and the US version War of the Monsters at the same time to really see the differences.

I gotta say, War of the Monsters is definitely the better version of the movie for me.

When compared to many Kaiju films of the 60s, the 100 minute runtime of Barugon is pretty darn long for a kaiju film in that era, even the 'longer' Godzilla films back then ran in the 90-95 minute range at most.

It feels it, too....it just isn't a well paced film. You always want to strike a good 'monster action/footage as a percentage of total runtime' in these types of movies. The most charming thing about most of them is that they are very 'easy' watches, and tend to be over and done in 80-90 minutes.

The 100 minute original version of Barugon just stops and starts too many times and spreads the monster action too thin. War of the Monsters nixed what was frankly a lot of repetitive and unnecessary expository scenes and sequences. It tightened up the 2nd half dramatically and brought the film down to a more typical runtime/structure with the 89 minute version.

The dub from AIP is also of a higher performance quality than the international dub.

Very happy that version is going to be included as an option on the upcoming Box Set, having it and the 72 minute option for Viras are two of the things I wanted most but was unsure we would get. For me, movies from this era are just supposed to be short and sweet.

[goji89]

I need a new Gameta movie in 2021

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

Sorry I couldn't resist.

[Chrispy_G]

I do think we'll get something within the next few years.

[mikelcho]

Viras lifting an entire destruction sequence from the original black and white Gamera film and treating it as if it depicted the aliens mind controlling Gamera in the present is one of the most brazenly crazy abuses of stock footage I've ever seen. It blows the stock footage manipulation in the Showa Godzilla films out of the water.

They didn't go under for another two decades but you could already see the signs of Daiei's bankruptcy.

IIRC, Daiei went broke in 1971, which was four years later, not 20. Of course, I could be wrong.

[mikelcho]

Viras lifting an entire destruction sequence from the original black and white Gamera film and treating it as if it depicted the aliens mind controlling Gamera in the present is one of the most brazenly crazy abuses of stock footage I've ever seen. It blows the stock footage manipulation in the Showa Godzilla films out of the water.

Yeah, when I was saying good things about the stock footage usage, I meant when they would have flashbacks/narration referring to the actual past events of the films.

Although the CRAZY-LONG like 18 minute montage in Viras, and then using footage from the original Gamera as 'actual footage' are absolutely egregious and unnecessary. Those I don't like, nor do I like the use in Super Monster. It just makes that movie not feel like a movie at all, it feels like some 'look back' special or something.

But when the characters talk about the previous events and we get a few minutes of footage(Guiron comes to mind, but it feels like they did it in a number of movies, my memory might be off)....I do rather like that.

One thing I like is that they didn't kill Gamera in the original movie...so unlike Godzilla there is no 'that was the original, this is a new one' stuff. It is one Gamera throughout the series.

I prefer that the Heisei Era and the Millennium films are each a full reboot vs the 'sequel to the original' approach the Heisei Godzilla series and Millennium series took. I get WHY, but full, clean reboots from scratch are 'neater' in my opinion.

Added in 1 month 12 days 2 hours 57 minutes 2 seconds:
So...thanks to god ole' YouTube I was actually able to view both Gamera vs Barugon and the US version War of the Monsters at the same time to really see the differences.

I gotta say, War of the Monsters is definitely the better version of the movie for me.

When compared to many Kaiju films of the 60s, the 100 minute runtime of Barugon is pretty darn long for a kaiju film in that era, even the 'longer' Godzilla films back then ran in the 90-95 minute range at most.

It feels it, too....it just isn't a well paced film. You always want to strike a good 'monster action/footage as a percentage of total runtime' in these types of movies. The most charming thing about most of them is that they are very 'easy' watches, and tend to be over and done in 80-90 minutes.

The 100 minute original version of Barugon just stops and starts too many times and spreads the monster action too thin. War of the Monsters nixed what was frankly a lot of repetitive and unnecessary expository scenes and sequences. It tightened up the 2nd half dramatically and brought the film down to a more typical runtime/structure with the 89 minute version.

The dub from AIP is also of a higher performance quality than the international dub.

Very happy that version is going to be included as an option on the upcoming Box Set, having it and the 72 minute option for Viras are two of the things I wanted most but was unsure we would get. For me, movies from this era are just supposed to be short and sweet.

I just happened to check out the Internet Archive's Sci-Fi/Horror section just to see what it was like and I came across War of the Monsters.

The color clip they showed on the part you click on to see the film looked absolutely beautiful.

Just thought you'd like to know.

[mikelcho]

Also, IIRC, because of what Daiei was doing with the Showa Gamera films (and because Gamera was so popular with the kids), that was one of the many reasons Toho did what they did with the Showa Godzilla films beginning in 1971 (i.e., having the kaiju get wounded to the point of bleeding, doing the out-of-character things they did, using existing stock footage to fill in the gaps when things couldn't be filmed, etc.).

Soon, the original was copying the imitation just to stay afloat and it quickly became a case of who was imitating whom (of course, we all know how it turned out after that, don't we?).

At least, that's how I think it went down.

[goji89]

Sorry I couldn't resist.

Ah, you never dissapoint me .......

[mikelcho]

Sorry I couldn't resist.

We'll get it, but we won't like it.

[Chrispy_G]

Also, IIRC, because of what Daiei was doing with the Showa Gamera films (and because Gamera was so popular with the kids), that was one of the many reasons Toho did what they did with the Showa Godzilla films beginning in 1971 (i.e., having the kaiju get wounded to the point of bleeding, doing the out-of-character things they did, using existing stock footage to fill in the gaps when things couldn't be filmed, etc.).

Soon, the original was copying the imitation just to stay afloat and it quickly became a case of who was imitating whom (of course, we all know how it turned out after that, don't we?).

At least, that's how I think it went down.

I can't wait to hear the various commentaries on all of the Gamera films address things like this. I KNOW someone like David Kalat doing a commentary for Guiron will not be able to resist talking about the ways that Godzilla influenced Gamera, but also the clear ways that elements of Gamera reflected back and influenced the Godzilla series.

Putting children in more prominent roles, increasing the use of stock footage, increasing the level of kaiju violence, even dialing up some of the more zany aspects of the plot. A lot of the Godzilla films from 69-74 feel very much modeled on the types of films that were already being made in the Gamera franchise.

Before the Heisei Godzilla films hit VHS, my VHS collection included Gigan, Megalon, and MechaG74...all of which I LOVED due to the more violent fights and battles. I regularly rented Biollante and then the other Heisei films, which all had a decent amount of monster gore.

It was weird to watch a lot of the 60s films and see pretty much no bloodshed. So seeing the Gamera movies relish in the cartoony violence is one of my favorite things about them. I also love the use of green and purple blood as a solution to help the films feel a little less gruesome.

[Gigantis]

So Garayann on DA has a series planned called The Rise of Guardians that is pretty much an updated version of the Showa Gamera universe. If Kadokawa plans something like this for a new reboot, would you watch it?

[UltramanGoji]

Most of those are pretty good redesigns (barring what I assume is Barugon on the right there), though I will never get the fascination with giving Gamera a turtle-beak mouth. It makes Gamera look a lot more generic than he should.

Anyway, an updated/remake of sorts of the Showa Gamera universe would be neat. Unlike Godzilla, a lot of Gamera's older foes seldom see new interpretations so it would be nice to see a new take on Zigra and co.

[daveblackeye15]

I'm pretty sure that was just a fake promotion picture sadly and not to be a series. And that 'Barugon' is actually an OC creation because I remember thinking it was supposed to be Barugon too.

But if they plan to an actual comic with it then I'm all for it.

[mikelcho]

If this is an actual thing, I'm all for it too!

The only enemy kaiju that's missing, however, is Viras. I guess there wasn't any room for him in the picture.

Who knows, maybe they'll include Garasharp, too, and officially finish the Showa enemies.

[goji89]

Hell yeah I'd watch it.....Im starving for anything Gameta.

[Chrispy_G]

Yeah, again, thanks to the miracle of YouTube....I know I'll be consistently viewing the 72 minute version of Viras for any eventual marathons.

You have a 2 minute flashback/stock footage sequence, an 11 minute flashback/stock footage sequence, OR a 20 minute flashback/stock footage sequence.

With Gamera vs Viras being the 4th film in the series, you only have 3 previous movies to pull stock footage from. To stop a film in its tracks for 11 or 20 minutes is just insane. With a 90 minute runtime, 20 minutes is over 1/5th of the runtime. 11 minutes out of an 81 minute movie is still a TENTH of the runtime, just dedicated to a string of flashback sequences.

It is fun that all of the options will be there, but there is no way I could ever argue that anything but the 72 minute version is the most effective cut of the film.