The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2018)

For the discussion of non-Toho monster media, tokusatsu franchises, and also for mixed discussion of Toho and non-Toho kaiju media.

There's 12 so pick 6

Alien (1979)
24
19%
Aliens (1986)
24
19%
Predator (1987)
22
17%
Predator 2 (1990)
16
13%
Alien³ (1992)
10
8%
Alien Resurrection (1997)
1
1%
Alien vs. Predator (2004)
11
9%
Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem (2007)
1
1%
Predators (2010)
11
9%
Prometheus (2012)
4
3%
Alien Covenant (2017)
2
2%
The Predator (2018)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 126

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Zilla103192
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby Zilla103192 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:06 pm

^ im not as inclined in that stuff as you might be wataru... so im legit asking...

why is fullscreen a bad thing?
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby TokyoVigilante » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:59 pm

why is fullscreen a bad thing?

They zoom in and crop the film to fill the frame. It undermines the intentions of the cinematographer and the director.

I've been watching my VHS of Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla since I was atleast 10, and when I finally got the wide-screen DVD I was blown away that I was missing 25% of movie.
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby Goji » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:38 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:Why not get the special editions instend since the special edition for Predator, and Predator 2 are around $10-20?


Because they are relatively hard to find now. They are not out of print, however.

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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby Zilla103192 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:03 pm

ah. i did know that there was more picture in widescreen... but i didnt know it was that bad...

i dont have a huge problem with fullscreen... more now then an hour ago... thanks guys! lol

but anyway... question.

do you guys know where i can find pictures of the original predator design? the insect like monster? ive seen some black and white grainy pictures but nothing more. a video would be epic!

thanks
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby TokyoVigilante » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:24 pm

Image

Image

I've seen test footage of the suit. Its head bobbed around and it carried an laser pistol. Also it was shorter then Schwarzenegger. It would've been a goofy monster, and I think the design is sorta' bland.

But this is why the cosmic forces that rule the universe so graciously granted us Stan Winston.
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby HayesAJones » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:28 pm

I saw that awkward monstrosity on the Predator widescreen special edition's extra features. It looks ridiculous, not like a "Demon Who Makes Trophies from Men". I'm surprised we haven't seen that guy in a SciFi/Syfy Original Picture yet.
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby Zilla103192 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:29 pm

^ sweet... i dont know where... but i heard it had one eye in the center of the head.
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby HayesAJones » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:32 pm

Now that I think about it, they had some footage of it on the special edition DVD, but it was only of the "red-suit" version used for the camouflage effects.
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby TokyoVigilante » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:37 pm

^
That's what I saw of it too. It's head bobs around like it was rockin' to a funky beat and held its laser pistol like a cowboy.

Pretty sure Dutch could just give him a wedgie and be done with it.
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby HayesAJones » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:40 pm

TokyoVigilante wrote:^It's head bobs around like it was rockin' to a funky beat and held its laser pistol like a cowboy.

That could have held possibilities for the finale.

"Draw!"

And it shot some kind of spinning projectile too. It looked like a cheap firework. What was with that?
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby TokyoVigilante » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:45 pm

I demand a shootout between man and martian at high-noon. Someone make that movie.

I think, overall, it's a testament to how important creature design is; the movie would've been exactly the same, but Stan Winston's utterly fantastic monster completely saves the movie.
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby KaneLocke » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:53 pm

TokyoVigilante wrote:I demand a shootout between man and martian at high-noon. Someone make that movie.

I think, overall, it's a testament to how important creature design is; the movie would've been exactly the same, but Stan Winston's utterly fantastic monster completely saves the movie.

Exactly. That is why Aliens is the better movie: because Predator movies are about the creature almost exclusively, Aliens you actually can grow to like the human characters.
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby HayesAJones » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:54 pm

TokyoVigilante wrote:II think, overall, it's a testament to how important creature design is; the movie would've been exactly the same, but Stan Winston's utterly fantastic monster completely saves the movie.

I agree. I've always though Alien would have been much scarier with Willem Dafoe as the Alien.

Willem Dafoe- when you need a movie monster, but can't afford makeup.

On a more on-topic note, I think it'd be a nice touch to have the skull of the original Predator design in a future movies or something. Maybe even show it being taken down by the real deal.
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby Zilla103192 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:59 pm

^ the creature is in Predators
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby TokyoVigilante » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:03 pm

Exactly. That is why Aliens is the better movie: because Predator movies are about the creature almost exclusively, Aliens you actually can grow to like the human characters.

Don't get me wrong, I love Predator. But I don't think it's fair to compare it to Alien because of how radically different they are. Predator is pure B-film utterly without pretension. It has a story to tell and tells it simply and masterfully. Alien/Aliens (even the pretty abhorrent A3/Resurrection) have all kinds of subtext and thematic depth going on that they work on completely different levels. I don't enjoy Predator like I enjoy Alien/Aliens.

I grow more and more convinced that, while Alien/Predator crossover is a novel idea, that they're aren't compatible. To force Alien into the Predator mold would be an injustice to Alien, and to try and build Predator up to something like Alien wouldn't work.


Question for everyone; is it possible to fairly blend these two universes? Can you create a scenario that compliments both titular monsters, while not sacrificing story or human characters? I've been interested in the original run of AvP by Darkhorse for this reason (the bottomless number of spin-offs, sequels, mini-series not so much).
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby HayesAJones » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:18 pm

It's definitely possible. Even if the two movies didn't get it right, I think that the two can be evenly matched. As I've said before, the Aliens' greater numbers, surprise attacks, and cunning should put them on equal footing with the fewer Predators' skill and technology, and vice versa.
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby Goji » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:38 pm

TokyoVigilante wrote:
Question for everyone; is it possible to fairly blend these two universes? Can you create a scenario that compliments both titular monsters, while not sacrificing story or human characters? I've been interested in the original run of AvP by Darkhorse for this reason (the bottomless number of spin-offs, sequels, mini-series not so much).


Dude, I'm been singing the same tune for years now! The source material from that first story was SUCH a good thing to work with when it came time to make the AvP film...but it was ignored almost completely (except for the captured Queen in chains, which in the comics, is usually kept chained up on the ship WITH the Predators, not frozen in a pyramid, underground.. in the arctic..). There was some interesting stuff in the AvP:WAR comic series from the early 90's (spanning 5 issues, #0-5). We were able to see what life with the Predators was like for Machiko (who went on to live/hunt with the Predators at the end of the original comic), and I found that to really interesting, and a step in the right direction. The art wasn't too great after issue #0, but overall the series wasn't bad.

The entire "Predator pyramid" thing was just made up for the AvP film. Unfortunately, the recent AvP game seems to be more closely associated with the canon of the current AvP films, because of presence of said pyramid, and literally almost nothing from the AvP comics.

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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby Zilla103192 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:26 pm

^ i really enjoyed the WAR series. the concept of a human, living amoung the predators is fantasic. i loved it.
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby Mini-Godzilla » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:39 pm

TokyoVigilante wrote:Predator is pure B-film utterly without pretension.


Well, the Predator sequels moreso than the first one. McTiernan comes off quite pretentious in the commentary. Both the director and the composer saw the film as a satire, although the original writers and the producers did not see it that way.

I grow more and more convinced that, while Alien/Predator crossover is a novel idea, that they're aren't compatible. To force Alien into the Predator mold would be an injustice to Alien, and to try and build Predator up to something like Alien wouldn't work.


I've been saying this since the release of the first AVP film (and thinking it even longer), and fans always become quite irate when I insist that the Alien tetralogy exists in a higher (i.e. more artistic) class of cinema than the Predator series (which includes the AVP movies in my mind).

Goji wrote:The source material from that first story was SUCH a good thing to work with when it came time to make the AvP film...but it was ignored almost completely.


An earlier script by Peter Briggs (who is a huge fan of Alien and even had a published dispute with James Cameron over the changes that he made to the creature's life cycle in Aliens) followed the first Dark Horse story arc faithfully, but it was scrapped for the awful Anderson script.

The same thing happened with his Freddy vs. Jason script, although I'm not too upset over that one. He also wrote an intriguing script for Highlander: The Source, but the producers told him that the script was too ambitious (the subsequent film was unwatchable).

I would ask Briggs for some more info about the AVP script, but the last time I talked to him, I discouraged him from using Ryan Reynolds in his upcoming film...right before Reynolds got the Green Lantern gig...so he might still hold a little grudge against me over that little bit of questionable advice.
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Re: The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread (1979-2010)

Postby KaneLocke » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:47 pm

Not more artistic, I think. Just different. Alien movies try to be action/horror, and the Predator movies are just cheesy B-movies with awesome creature.
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