The Alien and Predator Discussion Thread

[The One and Only]

Interview with writer/artist ,Gabriel Hardman, on the upcoming ALIENS:Dust To Dust mini series coming from Dark Horse this Spring.
https://www.cbr.com/aliens-dust-to-dust ... interview/

[cloverfan98]

Dark Horse really has done wonders for the Alien franchise with their comics. I wish Fox/Disney would take a page from them and just make Alien movies that are self contained like Dark Horse has been doing for years now. Not every film has to be connected to the original Alien plot wise. Just tell a good story with the Xenomorph.

[The One and Only]

THE PREDATOR'S release date has been pushed back to September 14 due to reshoots the film is going through.
http://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3482 ... -back-yet/

[UltramanGoji]

THE PREDATOR'S release date has been pushed back to September 14 due to reshoots the film is going through.
http://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3482 ... -back-yet/

I've heard this was due to negative test screenings due to the film's comedic tone. If it's for the better, I can't say I'm upset.

[eabaker]

Does anyone else find it kind of silly that these two are merged into a single thread? They're two separate properties that happen to have had some cross-overs, but Alien and Predator always were and are distinct series.

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

Does anyone else find it kind of silly that these two are merged into a single thread? They're two separate properties that happen to have had some cross-overs, but Alien and Predator always were and are distinct series.

I agree- I mean one's horror and the other is more of an action series.

[The One and Only]

Does anyone else find it kind of silly that these two are merged into a single thread? They're two separate properties that happen to have had some cross-overs, but Alien and Predator always were and are distinct series.

No, not really. The two franchises have always been pretty interconnected since 1989, 90 with both properties being published in comic form from Dark Horse. Not to mention ALIENS Vs. PREDATOR crossover books. And on top of it the video games, action figures, card games, and all sorts of merchandise played up the versus concept. The Xenomorphs and Preds are pretty much interlinked. Even despite Sir Ridley's attempt to separate them, the two alien races are pretty much side by side.

[eabaker]

Does anyone else find it kind of silly that these two are merged into a single thread? They're two separate properties that happen to have had some cross-overs, but Alien and Predator always were and are distinct series.

No, not really. The two franchises have always been pretty interconnected since 1989, 90 with both properties being published in comic form from Dark Horse. Not to mention ALIENS Vs. PREDATOR crossover books. And on top of it the video games, action figures, card games, and all sorts of merchandise played up the versus concept. The Xenomorphs and Preds are pretty much interlinked. Even despite Sir Ridley's attempt to separate them, the two alien races are pretty much side by side.

Since '89 - so, a decade into the history of one series, after its two most beloved entries were made; two years after the original (and only widely beloved) entry in the other series; and primarily in secondary media (these are both first and foremost cinematic properties).

Each of these things (okay, especially Alien) deserves discussion in its own right.

[kamilleblu]

So what about Ridley Scott's desire to turn Alien into the next Star Wars in terms of installments, popularity, and longevity?

[eabaker]

So what about Ridley Scott's desire to turn Alien into the next Star Wars in terms of installments, popularity, and longevity?

Ridley Scott is a crazy person who doesn't understand what made his own best movies work in the first place (for the record, while he's a good director, a lot of what made his best movies work was other people).

Alien is not Star Wars or Star Trek; it is not an inherently unique and expansive universe of which nearly infinite facets can be explored. It's a single story that can be revisited and riffed on, but it is inherently limited to a certain set of central elements.

[Zarm]

So what about Ridley Scott's desire to turn Alien into the next Star Wars in terms of installments, popularity, and longevity?

If that is his desire, making a series of terrible prequels and blocking the anticipated Bomkamp-proposed return of Ripley, Hicks, and Newt is a bizarre way to go about it.

But, I guess, if the Star Wars Prequels taught us anything, it's that the creator inevitably gets too close to things and ends up making very niche, non-sustainable choices in his prequels and... these franchises have really oddly-specific parallels.

I don't think the Alien franchise is that kind of franchise, honestly; I think overexposure only dilutes it, and trying to one-up itself, or retell the first one, over and over isn't really a path to success. Unless they really plan to embrace the Aliens model (and some of the novels) and turn it into a big action/war franchise, eschewing the horror film vibe for massive hordes of aliens besieging space stations and the like. That, they might be able to make an ongoing franchise out of, at least for a time. (Even then, the xenomorphs (sorry, eabaker ) are a little one-trick for infinite sustainability; facing the same villain over and over gets repetitive- the same sort of fatigue that the Jurassic franchise is trying to overcome. 'We got stranded in the middle of dinosaurs already; this basic premise is getting a bit worn out...')

Honestly, as horror is so not my vibe that I can't even express how much horror is not my vibe, I wouldn't mind this. And I think such a franchise could have its own entertainment value, for a time. But even then, it would be a diminished shell of what the Alien concept was meant to be- and even with that, it would have to peter out eventually.

Added in 3 minutes 4 seconds:

Ridley Scott is a crazy person who doesn't understand what made his own best movies work in the first place (for the record, while he's a good director, a lot of what made his best movies work was other people).

Again, strangely specific parallels to the Star Wars franchise... I agree with this. (Incidentally, I'd also say it about Rian Johnson, JJ Abrams, George Lucas, the creative team behind Star Trek: Discovery, Zack Snyder and nearly everyone connected with the DCEU, anyone who's ever produced a theatrically-released Fantastic Four film... we live in an era of 'I'm making this, but I don't quite get what made the source material good...')

Alien is not Star Wars or Star Trek; it is not an inherently unique and expansive universe of which nearly infinite facets can be explored. It's a single story that can be revisited and riffed on, but it is inherently limited to a certain set of central elements.

YES. Just replace my entire pontificating quote with these two sentences. That's it exactly.

[eabaker]

But, I guess, if the Star Wars Prequels taught us anything, it's that the creator inevitably gets too close to things and ends up making very niche, non-sustainable choices in his prequels and... these franchises have really oddly-specific parallels.

Although now I must rush to point out that Ridley Scott is not the creator of the Alien franchise, no matter how much he may have bought into his own hype over the years. Alien was Dan O'Bannon's baby (the more I think about it, the more disturbing I find me own phrasing there); O'Bannon was not just responsible for the story, he was also heavily involved in the movie's visual design.

I don't want to downplay how important Scott's direction was to the effectiveness and success of the original - it was a vital component - but he was a player on a team, not the driving creative force.

[Zarm]

Really? I hadn't realized that he wasn't the initial concept-man. Well, then, the continuing deferral to him of the franchise (can you tell I have a chip on my shoulder over the apparent demise of the Blomkamp film in favor of Covenant? ) is even more baffling...

[eabaker]

(can you tell I have a chip on my shoulder over the apparent demise of the Blomkamp film in favor of Covenant?

I'm with you on that, though in part for different reasons, I'm sure.

I thought Covenant was a lousy movie, both in concept and in execution.

And I do recognize that following up on the characters of Hicks and Newt could have been interesting and entertaining.

But I also would have really like the complete destabilization of "canon" that would have come from creating an alternate sequel to Aliens.

[Zarm]

(can you tell I have a chip on my shoulder over the apparent demise of the Blomkamp film in favor of Covenant?

I'm with you on that, though in part for different reasons, I'm sure.

I thought Covenant was a lousy movie, both in concept and in execution.

And I do recognize that following up on the characters of Hicks and Newt could have been interesting and entertaining.

But I also would have really like the complete destabilization of "canon" that would have come from creating an alternate sequel to Aliens.

I like both. I definitely want to see those characters paid off; to harken back to our earlier conversation, a story to act as a successor to 2 as I thought 3 should have been, which would actually help 3 for me- with that burden of expectation lifted by another film, 3 is freer to be its own thing.

But also, i kinda like the mid-way-offshoot strategy. I always think of it as the Superman films technique; going back to the place the series was last agreed-upon as 'universally good,' and explore a different branch of the timeline. (Unlike what, say, Star Wars did with its EU, however, I prefer this with 'defunct' film-series rather than killing off an existing, developing storyline in favor of it!)

Plus, I have been thoroughly unimpressed with everything I've heard about the Prometheus series- though I'll admit to not having seen either. (Partly out of protest, partly out of disinterest lacking the characters that connected me to the series in the first place).

[Godzilla21]

Really? I hadn't realized that he wasn't the initial concept-man. Well, then, the continuing deferral to him of the franchise (can you tell I have a chip on my shoulder over the apparent demise of the Blomkamp film in favor of Covenant? ) is even more baffling...

You really should get the Alien Quadrilogy Blu Ray set. There is a ton of insight into the making of the first film and as eabaker said, Dan O'Bannon was the real driver behind the whole concept. A ton of great interviews.

[kamilleblu]

Yeah. Ridley wanted to go the Prometheus route with "Alien 2" as he found the derelict ship the most interesting aspect of the original. What killed an immediate sequel was that the head of Fox at the time, who championed for both Star Wars and Alien, left to make his own company and his replacement had nothing but contempt for science fiction films. Interest in a sequel was sparked again after the replacement left and some executives at Fox specifically approached an unproven James Cameron because they liked his script for The Terminator. Cameron accepted the challenge since he had a lot of time to kill while waiting for Arnold Schwarzenegger (who was finishing Conan 2) so that he could start shooting The Terminator. But most of the executives didn't like it. It was described as "wall-to-wall horror" and lacking character development. Everything stopped there and Fox even attempted to sell the rights to the franchise. So Cameron moved on. Months go by and the sequel looked dead for good. In the meantime Fox got another president and he was very impressed by Cameron's work. He set the gears in motion again and promised Cameron the opportunity to direct the Alien sequel if The Terminator turned out well.

[eabaker]

Yeah. Ridley wanted to go the Prometheus route with "Alien 2" as he found the derelict ship the most interesting aspect of the original.

And that, to my mind, is an example of his being simultaneously right and wrong. Yes, it was interesting, but it was interesting because it was a mystery that the viewer could speculate about. Giving it an explanation makes it immediately less interesting.

[Zarm]

Yeah. Ridley wanted to go the Prometheus route with "Alien 2" as he found the derelict ship the most interesting aspect of the original.

And that, to my mind, is an example of his being simultaneously right and wrong. Yes, it was interesting, but it was interesting because it was a mystery that the viewer could speculate about. Giving it an explanation makes it immediately less interesting.

If Darth Vader and Boba Fett taught us one thing, it is that wanting to see a thing is, paradoxically, often far more satisfying that seeing someone else's vision of it.

Or, as Mr. Spock once said, "After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."

[Tohosaurus]

I'd rather go back to somewhat smaller Alien-style movies. Frankly, doing a movie within the universe but very unconnected to everything else isn't new.