Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

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goji1986
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby goji1986 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:03 am

Bumped this thread because I decided to try a little challenge. Inspired by omgitsgodzilla's restoration efforts of G85, I'm going to attempt my own restoration of the Titra dub for Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster. As I've observed on this particular thread, the original poster has disappeared and, assumedly, his restoration has not been circulated so I'm hoping that I'm not stepping on anyone's toes.

Anyway, for this restoration I am sourcing the Titra dub from my personal copy of the 1992 Goodtimes VHS. I will be attempting some audio clean up to reduce hiss and increase clarity, but I'm no expert in that regard so don't expect anything revelatory. Due to equipment constraints (namely, I don't own a Bluray burner), the video for the first version will be in SD and use the 2004 Sony DVD as a source. I am planning on upgrading to a Bluray burner soon and, when that happens, I'll be replacing it with Kraken's Bluray.

In the interim, I thought I'd share a screencap of my own reconstruction of the title card. For this I used Adobe After Effects and made custom masks around each letter from the VHS, colorized, then animated them as closely as possible to match the original. I added glow and grain to fake the film look.
Image

I have been running tests on audio and picture quality and I think I've figured everything out. This week I'll be fully digitizing the VHS and then running it through After Effects with a special plugin by Video Copilot's Andrew Kramer that will convert the picture from interlaced 29.976 fps to 24 fps for easier editing. Then it's time to match each scene, frame by frame!

I'll keep everyone posted on my progress as best as I can.
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omgitsgodzilla
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby omgitsgodzilla » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:15 am

Looks like you beat me to the punch!

If it's any help, I've already ripped the Kraken Blu-ray in preparation for a project like this. If you'd like me to send you that, I'd be more than happy to.

There's also a digitally re-created version of the title card available on Space Hunter M's YouTube channel, if that would be of any use to you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0NgWV1t5UU

Best of luck on this project!
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby dbmaster514 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:46 pm

That's fantastic!

I actually just bought the Goodtimes VHS to hear this dub again so maybe I'll just wait and see how this project turns out first.

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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby goji1986 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:10 am

Well, last night I successfully digitized the VHS and, thanks to omgitsgodzilla, I now have a rip of the Kraken Bluray!

I discovered a faster method to inverse telecine the VHS transfer that won't require me to have to re-render the entire film so I've actually started editing sooner than expected. I'm at the 4-minute mark just after the dance contest.

What I find funny is how I can literally just shrink the VHS image into the center of the HD frame and it almost always matches perfectly!
Image

Growing up with VHS I never fully appreciated the beauty of widescreen until I realized how pan and scan would often fake camera moves or even entire shots that were too wide to fit on the screen, like this exchange between our three protagonists that, on VHS, appears to be several cuts but is in fact one long take! The two images are literally a frame apart.

Image
Image

That's all for now. Hopefully I'll have the whole thing edited in a few days time.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby omgitsgodzilla » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:47 pm

That's pretty much the same technique I used to sync my footage for Godzilla 1985. It was a little easier considering that both sources were roughly the same AR, but the fact that as far as I know most of the editing between both versions of Sea Monster is the same helps even it out.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby goji1986 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:33 pm

omgitsgodzilla wrote:That's pretty much the same technique I used to sync my footage for Godzilla 1985. It was a little easier considering that both sources were roughly the same AR, but the fact that as far as I know most of the editing between both versions of Sea Monster is the same helps even it out.


For the most part, it is. However I've encountered a few instances where a few seconds or even frames have been snipped!

I'm at the 15 minute mark where our intrepid crew has just reached the island. Good place to take a break for the night.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby omgitsgodzilla » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:58 am

That's interesting! I learned while reproducing the editing on 1985 that often when a cut was made that wasn't in the Japanese version, a frame or two would be snipped from the end of the first scene/shot and the beginning of the next one.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby LegendZilla » Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:37 am

I recently purchased myself a VHS of Godzilla Vs The Sea Monster at G-fest. Specifically the Video Treasures edition with said Titra dub.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby goji1986 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:49 pm

LegendZilla wrote:I recently purchased myself a VHS of Godzilla Vs The Sea Monster at G-fest. Specifically the Video Treasures edition with said Titra dub.


That's even older than my Goodtimes one, great catch!

Do you have any way of checking to see if there's anything before the title card, like the standard Toho studio logo or something else? Mine only has the Goodtimes animation...
PM me for Godzilla versus The Sea Monster Titra Dub HD reconstruction! BLURAY-READY EDITION NOW AVAILABLE!
(Former V2.0 still available as well)
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5561

Godzilla vs The Smog Monster AIP Dub HD reconstruction in progress!
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=26132

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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby omgitsgodzilla » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:00 pm

goji1986 wrote:
LegendZilla wrote:I recently purchased myself a VHS of Godzilla Vs The Sea Monster at G-fest. Specifically the Video Treasures edition with said Titra dub.


That's even older than my Goodtimes one, great catch!

Do you have any way of checking to see if there's anything before the title card, like the standard Toho studio logo or something else? Mine only has the Goodtimes animation...

I've often wondered about that myself. I know it wasn't shown in theaters, but even for TV starting at the title card with nothing else before it seems abrupt.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby Tamura » Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:32 am

goji1986 wrote:What I find funny is how I can literally just shrink the VHS image into the center of the HD frame and it almost always matches perfectly!


I've been using this technique for years; as long as both sources are progressive, free of blending and have the same frame rate, you can achieve perfect sync. I did a recreation of the Brenco edit of The Human Vapor which I think would have been impossible to pull off without this technique. It's the frames that need to be lined up, not the lip movements. It's also really interesting to think about because you're actually retracing the exact steps the editor originally made using a non-destructive, digital editing system. How can you possibly do a bad job recreating an edit when you're engaging in the exact same process as the film's editor? It also acquaints you with every single edit made to the film, both big and unnoticeably small, which I think sometimes makes it easier to understand and appreciate why certain decisions were made.

I'm really against using horribly combed or permanently blended video sources for dubs - if a dub source is filled with blended frames, it can be impossible to tell which frame matches the equivalent frame on the high quality, blend-free source, so you're always possibly a frame off sync. I'm a stereotypical perfectionist so I just can't accept that.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby goji1986 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:46 am

Tamura wrote:It also acquaints you with every single edit made to the film, both big and unnoticeably small, which I think sometimes makes it easier to understand and appreciate why certain decisions were made.


I was actually thinking the exact same thing! Sea Monster is, admittedly, not one my favorite G-flicks, but I'm really growing to appreciate the editing and shot choices. It's superbly well crafted.

Tamura wrote:I'm really against using horribly combed or permanently blended video sources for dubs - if a dub source is filled with blended frames, it can be impossible to tell which frame matches the equivalent frame on the high quality, blend-free source, so you're always possibly a frame off sync. I'm a stereotypical perfectionist so I just can't accept that.


I hear you on that, and in a perfect world I'd much rather have a source that is true 24fps. Whether this is a limitation of the VHS format (were films ever released in their native framerates or were they all telecined?) or the DV compression that I am forced to use on capture (it can only be set for 60i) I just can't tell. However, the plugin I'm using seems to be doing a bang-up job of converting from 60i to 24p on the fly, and there's a noticeable difference when toggling it on and off (from combing to shots not even lining up). So far I've only encountered two instances where a shot in the VHS source is a single frame longer than the HD version. It doesn't appear to be blended because there's distinct movement but who knows? In any case, with those single shots all I've had to do is slow down the equivalent HD source by less than .1% and I'm back on track.

In the end I do understand that this is in no way going to be a "true" restoration and that some slight cheats must be made, but until Toho decides to actually give a damn about these dubs and restore them professionally (a long shot of a flying pig carrying a snowball in hell, I know) I at least hope my version will suffice.
PM me for Godzilla versus The Sea Monster Titra Dub HD reconstruction! BLURAY-READY EDITION NOW AVAILABLE!
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby omgitsgodzilla » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:44 am

It's really neat to see other people getting into this sort of thing and enjoying it for the same reasons I did.

I had similar issues with some shots in the MHD being a frame longer than in the Toho transfer; sometimes the cut between shots seemed to simply be in a different place and both shots were still properly in sync; other times it was where an edit had been made by New World, in which case I could often just have the next shot begin a frame earlier since New World's editor often chopped a frame or two off the beginnings and ends of shots when making cuts. Sometimes neither was possible and I had to just duplicate a frame from one shot or the other to compensate; not an elegant solution but not really noticeable to the viewer either.

May I ask what software/technique you used to convert the VHS rip to 24fps? I'm about to start working on a recreation of DAM's original US version and I'll have to convert an SD reference source much like you've done here.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby goji1986 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:12 pm

omgitsgodzilla wrote:May I ask what software/technique you used to convert the VHS rip to 24fps? I'm about to start working on a recreation of DAM's original US version and I'll have to convert an SD reference source much like you've done here.


I am using Adobe Premiere as my editor, and captured the VHS via Premiere Log and Capture using a Canopus ADVC-110 analog to digital converter. It only captures in MOV format with DV compression, which natively interlaces the picture. To simulate the proper framerate I am basing my timeline off the HD rip, which is true 1080p at 24 progressive frames and laying down the complete VHS rip there, then applying the Boris Continuum Complete Deinterlace plugin, which has an option for 29.976i -> 23.976p to simulate the reverse telecine.
PM me for Godzilla versus The Sea Monster Titra Dub HD reconstruction! BLURAY-READY EDITION NOW AVAILABLE!
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Godzilla vs The Smog Monster AIP Dub HD reconstruction in progress!
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby omgitsgodzilla » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:00 pm

Ahh, thanks! Much obliged!
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby GodzillaFanatic2001 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:52 am

I'm greatly looking forwards to this! If you are doing a complete restoration, it's probably worth checking this out, it's the original end title in the same font as the opening credits!
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby goji1986 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:14 am

GodzillaFanatic2001 wrote:I'm greatly looking forwards to this! If you are doing a complete restoration, it's probably worth checking this out, it's the original end title in the same font as the opening credits!



Aaaahhhh that's excellent, thanks for the tip!!! Would you happen to know anything about logos shown before the opening titles?
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby GodzillaFanatic2001 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:21 am

No, I'm sorry to say. I just found that on YouTube, so I have no idea what would have come before it. I know one copy I found online had the Alan Enterprises logo, but I doubt that was what was there originally. Chances are it was a Walter Reade-Sterling logo, like this one from the end of this video. This was the closest thing I could find to a TV logo.
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As opposed to those dangerously fun movies.


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But not the morning. No, no... Never the morning.
This movie's quality improves by 50% when viewed past noon.

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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby omgitsgodzilla » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:09 pm

I've begun work on syncing up Destroy All Monsters, and interestingly enough, I've discovered a similar tendency to what you described with Sea Monster: Many shots will be a frame shorter for some reason. I would suspect it was a byproduct of either the telecine process (as both of the US versions we're using as references are taken from sources originally used for TV airings) or the de-interlacing/frame rate conversion, but that doesn't appear to be the case as the frames are, in fact, missing (one shot will be in sync, then the US version will start the next shot a frame ahead of the Japanese version and remain that way), and yet the sound never goes out of sync with the image. I briefly thought perhaps the US version was running at PAL speed for some reason, but if that were the case the two versions of the movie would go out of sync by one more frame each second as opposed to once every few shots. It's really peculiar.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster-Restored Titra Dub

Postby goji1986 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:20 am

omgitsgodzilla wrote:I've begun work on syncing up Destroy All Monsters, and interestingly enough, I've discovered a similar tendency to what you described with Sea Monster: Many shots will be a frame shorter for some reason. I would suspect it was a byproduct of either the telecine process (as both of the US versions we're using as references are taken from sources originally used for TV airings) or the de-interlacing/frame rate conversion, but that doesn't appear to be the case as the frames are, in fact, missing (one shot will be in sync, then the US version will start the next shot a frame ahead of the Japanese version and remain that way), and yet the sound never goes out of sync with the image. I briefly thought perhaps the US version was running at PAL speed for some reason, but if that were the case the two versions of the movie would go out of sync by one more frame each second as opposed to once every few shots. It's really peculiar.


Yeah it's strange, but as long as the HD source lines up all's good!

Finally reaching the homestretch on the film - Ebirah has just emerged for the final time to take on the Big G. Another two nights or so and the editing should be complete!!
PM me for Godzilla versus The Sea Monster Titra Dub HD reconstruction! BLURAY-READY EDITION NOW AVAILABLE!
(Former V2.0 still available as well)
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5561

Godzilla vs The Smog Monster AIP Dub HD reconstruction in progress!
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=26132


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