Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction AVAILABLE NOW

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G-MAN
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

Post by G-MAN »

I'm curious are you using the toho bluray for the reconstruction or another source? Since as far as I know it's the only release I've seen of the film to be on bluray and I know the main film is already compressed with the champion version and other extras being on the disc. And it would be a shame to make this using an inferior disc that has any sort of pixelation.

And from someone whose messed around with the simitar dvd release of film to watch it on a HDTV. And while the release is non anamorphic to begin with and that already causes a drop in quality not to mention the film being highly compressed even back when it was released. But make sure when upscaling it either use a program that allows you to crop and upscale it at the same time from the original dvd rip in the highest bitrate for maximizing the quality of it as it's not the greatest source but I've been surprised at being able to get it to look better than the dvd. As it will of course never be perfect as it's from a compressed source. But if you do it like that it should turn out better than some of the simitar shots used in astro monsters than were distracting for how pixelated they were.

Added in 2 hours 15 minutes 43 seconds:
omgitsgodzilla wrote:It's just the beginning of the Japanese score, played over a black screen. The music that plays over the Toho Scope Logo and Japanese title card.

Added in 1 hour 43 minutes 36 seconds:
Here's my reconstruction of the bit from the Frontier Missile sequence that's missing from the Simitar DVD, reinstated using the Siren and Classic Media DVDs:



The missing part is actually available in full scope via the German DVD; however the only version I can find online is such low quality I decided against using it - whether the problem is the DVD or the upload itself, I don't know, but it's even worse than the Simitar DVD by quite a bit.
Will this bit appear as shown in the video in the reconstruction itself? As while yes it would nice to see it restored as best as possible. I'd look for another source or just not worry about the few seconds lost in my opinion it's best left out instead of using a few different sources of the course of a few seconds with many frames being heavily cropped and will look really off while watching it as the picture will be so small distracting to have quite a few aspect ratios changes over the course of a few seconds and again is very distracting, odd choice, and a bit of an eyesore.

Id even look into possible comparing the vhs of the film from simitar as I've heard it might look a bit better than the dvd even though it's non anamorphic too. But again it's your decision but I'd advise against using that reconstruction and just stick to it as it appears in the simitar releases as something like that is less distracting like when you did something similar in your astro monsters reconstruction. But it also didn't switch from so many times. And it's your reconstruction. But strongly implore you to stick to the scope aspect ratio of the frontier missile sequence as while it won't be complete it will honestly be a better reconstruction for it as it makes little sense to use so many different sources which don't fill the rest of the frame and is the main sequence that really differentiate the AIP version from the Japanese version and would be a shame to see such an odd instance pop up in what looks to be a great reconstruction as the scope stuff in that brief video looked awesome and I know I've stated numerous times I would prefer you just stick to the scope footage and not worry about the missing few seconds from the various other versions used in that sequence. Not worth the messing up the scene.

Sorry for the long post and if I repeated anything I just want this to be as awesome as your previous reconstructions
Last edited by G-MAN on Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:54 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

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Either way, He's gonna make our jaws drop with another awesome reconstruction! I have faith in him. :)
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

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GodzillaBurgh wrote:Either way, He's gonna make our jaws drop with another awesome reconstruction! I have faith in him. :)
I have faith too.as the quality of.the scope section of that scene in the brief video is jaw dropping. I just think they should stick to using the scope stuff and not bother with it missing a few seconds as it will turn out for the best

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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

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WIll there be a Google Drive download link? Because Whenever I try to download MEGA, it takes up the storage on my Chromebook.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

Post by omgitsgodzilla »

There will be; as usual I'll be rendering an MP4 version of this that should come out to a little under 15GB, which'll allow me to upload it to Google Drive.

And I understand what you're saying about the changes between sources being a bit distracting, but there are a couple reasons I'm doing it that way. One, there's not yet a version of this dub that I'm aware of that's in scope and doesn't have numerous splices and some parts just cut out altogether. While the greatest amount of visual consistency possible would be nice, to me it's a higher priority to make this version complete.

As it stands, when it comes to that particular bit of the missile sequence, it's kind of one of those "pick two of three" scenarios between consistency, quality and completeness. As I mentioned before, a scope source for (most of) those missing frames exists which would allow completeness and relative consistency, but at the expense of quality - it looks really terrible. The other option, simply leaving those missing frames out, would allow for consistency without sacrificing quality, but at the expense of completeness, which is one of the major flaws of the Simitar scope presentation that I'm looking to correct. The approach I've settled on sacrifices consistency, but allows for completeness and reasonably high quality. Considering that black portions of the frame are a compromise that's made on about half an hour of Metropolis in the most current restoration, I'm willing to make that compromise for a few seconds out of this film - the entire rest of the film is in full scope, save for the ending title taken from the CM DVD, which is on a black background anyway.

In any case, as I announced on Tumblr late last night/early this morning, the project is just about finished! All that's left to do are the reconstruction credits, the film grain layer, then rendering and uploading. I've got some disc cover previews from Video Collector and they look terrific; I should have the finished case and disc art by Friday or so. Very excited for you all to see this!
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

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You've been doing a tremendous job putting in the time to make these restorations flawless! Black frames or not, I'll let it slide until there are higher sources available. And can't wait for Video COllector's cover arts, they're the second best thing about your reconstructions!

You could try "masking" some of the trees and mountains to make the scope bits widescreen like you did with the Ghidrah ending, but hey, just my words, not yours. :)
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

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Awesome to hear and I fully understand and can't wait to burn it to a bluray disc like I have with you other Godzilla restorations. Any eta as to when all the rendering and and uploading might be taking place as I've been dying to see this in the best quality possible. And I'm curious what we're the various sources used for the frontier missile sequence aside from the most obvious ones being the cm and simitar disc? And will the size of the bluray mkv be comparable to the previous ones.
Last edited by G-MAN on Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

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He said on his Tumblr page he'll upload it when he starts rendering next week, when Video Collector is done with the cover & disc art. I'm REALLY dying to know what they look like. :huge:
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

Post by omgitsgodzilla »

I decided I'd give the other source a shot, and here's the result. I didn't see the ghosting strongly in the clip itself, or in the preview on Vegas, but it did show up very noticeably in the render:



I took a closer look at the clip and found out why: It was encoded at a 25fps PAL framerate, using some kind of pulldown or blending so that the footage still in effect ran at about the speed it would at 24 or 23.976fps. That means each of the 23.976fps frames in the Vegas project were actually falling somewhere between the 25fps frames of the video. This means that in addition to the very subtle ghosting in the original clip because of the 25fps frame rate and ~24fps speed of the footage, more ghosting was introduced when rendering the 25fps clip back out at 23.976fps.

So here's what I'm thinking right now: As it stands, the really conspicuous ghosting makes this approach unacceptable in appearance. I'll try to find a workaround, and if I can find one I'll use the scope footage. If not, I'll stick with my original approach.

Added in 49 minutes 6 seconds:
Turns out I was completely wrong. The German source was just running at PAL speed; I don't know why it's got the slight ghosting on it. In any case, I took screencaps of each individual frame and laid them into the project (time- and labor-intensive; if I'd realized my mistake earlier I'd have just stretched the PAL clip to match the project frame rate like I did with the Siren DVD). The added ghosting is gone. Here's a revised look at that source, properly integrated:



So now I guess it's up to you guys which version you prefer. I'll also be asking folks on Tumblr as well and depending on the responses I get I'll go with one approach or the other.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

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I could try and clean up the quite dirty and scratched sources, that is, if I had the sources.

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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

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While shot 3 is better, I noticed that Godzilla is not lifting his right foot. After watching the shot over and over again, I think I know what's wrong. At first at 00:02 - 00:05, I thought it was a repeated loop of that one shot but zoomed in. You could try editing out 00:01 to 00:04 the second missile hit of the wide shot and use the second shot of the close-up. You could try cutting out 00:01 through 00:04, and it might look a little better.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

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GodzillaBurgh wrote:While shot 3 is better, I noticed that Godzilla is not lifting his right foot. After watching the shot over and over again, I think I know what's wrong. At first at 00:02 - 00:05, I thought it was a repeated loop of that one shot but zoomed in. You could try editing out 00:01 to 00:04 the second missile hit of the wide shot and use the second shot of the close-up. You could try cutting out 00:01 through 00:04, and it might look a little better.
That's actually not a mistake; it's just a bad edit in the sequence itself. SHM tells me that the Frontier Missile scene wasn't actually shot through any arrangement with AIP, but was a deleted scene that somehow made it into the elements that were sent to the US for localization. That, to me, would explain why the editing feels so much rougher and sloppier than the rest of the movie - it might not have actually been finished. (That would also explain why it begins so abruptly, and why the shot of Godzilla that originally came after the military briefing in the Japanese version - it might've been intended as a continuation of that briefing scene, with that insert of Godzilla in the middle to convey some time passing or something.)
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

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Oh wow, that's interesting. So, how are you gonna deal with these issues of that missing bit?
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

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The one I'm having people vote on? Whichever way has the most votes by the time I get down to rendering this thing.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction

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Oh boy! Can't for the weekend to see the final product!!!
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction AVAILABLE NOW

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It's uploaded and available in all the usual spots! Shoot me a message if you don't know where to look.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction AVAILABLE NOW

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Watched it, loved it! Strange it's in 360p rather than usual 1080, but hey, I'll let it slide!

Added in 5 hours 29 minutes 38 seconds:
Google Drive link has the movie in 360p, rather than 1080HD. Watched it on the Internet Archive link, and my God, you did justice to my favorite Showa Godzilla movie. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH for your dedication and love for these reconstructions!!
:applause: :g64: :-D
Last edited by GodzillaBurgh on Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction AVAILABLE NOW

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I'm curious to know if you upscaled the simitar frontier missile scene while also cropping it and giving it the final bitrate? As I noticed really bad pixelation in shots. And referenced a much older attempt of my own and while suffers different issues as it was a test the blocking isn't as apparent as in the mkv version.

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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction AVAILABLE NOW

Post by lurkingoji »

Great work on the reconstruction and the artwork for the Blu-Ray disc were excellent as well. Appreciate your efforts preserving these in the best possible way.

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Re: Godzilla vs. the Thing - Red Menace HD Reconstruction AVAILABLE NOW

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GodzillaBurgh wrote:Watched it, loved it! Strange it's in 360p rather than usual 1080, but hey, I'll let it slide!

Added in 5 hours 29 minutes 38 seconds:
Google Drive link has the movie in 360p, rather than 1080HD. Watched it on the Internet Archive link, and my God, you did justice to my favorite Showa Godzilla movie. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH for your dedication and love for these reconstructions!!
:applause: :g64: :-D
That's just the preview; you should be able to adjust the quality the same way you would an YouTube video. Failing that, though, downloading the file itself will give you the original 1080p video.

Glad you enjoyed it!
G-MAN wrote:I'm curious to know if you upscaled the simitar frontier missile scene while also cropping it and giving it the final bitrate? As I noticed really bad pixelation in shots. And referenced a much older attempt of my own and while suffers different issues as it was a test the blocking isn't as apparent as in the mkv version.
By "upscaling," I assume you're referring to the kind of enhancements Blu-ray players tend to apply to DVDs to make them look better on HD displays; I'm not really sure if Vegas has a plugin or effect for that, but that would definitely be useful. (I'm assuming what you mean by blocking is the pixelation resulting from blowing up a non-anamorphic SD source to HD. If you mean the compression artifacts, they're probably more noticeable because I boosted the hell out of the contrast and saturation in order to make the color palette a little less dead, making some of the source's inherent issues more obvious.)
lurkingoji wrote:Great work on the reconstruction and the artwork for the Blu-Ray disc were excellent as well. Appreciate your efforts preserving these in the best possible way.
Thank you!
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