KKT: IR vs PG

[Stuckey]

I find it silly to scale the BF and the Seismo at the same ratio.
Lucy will be a fairly good distraction for Empera, for a few minutes at least. If the Seismo is in fact scaled down to be just several times larger than everyone else than the Berserk Fuhrer should be able to blow it up rather quickly. Ramiel and Empera are both durable as can be, but Neo ZX-Tole and the Fuhrer should have enough firepower to take them down.
This is definitely the hardest match to judge so far, but, I see IR's team squeaking by to take the win. But just barely.

[Primevalgodzilla V2]

Assuming Seismo is a thousand times everyone's size, he;d easily slag everyone save for ZX-Tole.

If he isn't, he's significantly less of a threat, though his attacks still pack a real punch. I think we should wait for Draglord's call on this one;.

Even scaled down, Seismo's armor is still extremely tough. I think the zoids could only hurt him when they targeted those little rivets on his neck, which will be plenty harder in this case. I feel Empera and Raiel can overwhelm even the barriers of BF and ZX-tole eventually. Melee will be a practical non-factor against those two even though they don't have it.

[Draglord]

Assuming Seismo is a thousand times everyone's size, he;d easily slag everyone save for ZX-Tole.

If he isn't, he's significantly less of a threat, though his attacks still pack a real punch. I think we should wait for Draglord's call on this one;.

He's not unscaled. He's the same size of everybody else.

[Inferno Rodan]

As I said in the other thread, it is easy to view Lucy and the others as impressive in the vacuum of the show. She and the others had the fear of their targets, as well as them being frail and lacking the firepower to kill them in their favor. Everything in this match isn't going to be pissing themselves over a girl. Her body is not much more durable than a regular human. Any one of the dozens of lasers from Siesmo would easily kill her, much less a beam from Ramiel.

Okay? So?

And where did I say that a Graboid would instakill her? I didn't. All I said was if a Graboid were to bite down her (aka it's main jaws) she is dead. Whether that be instantly or from bleeding out it doesn't matter; she will die.

1. Graboids rarely attack with their main mouths. They usually attack with their tongues.
2. On the occasions when Graboids do attack with their main mouth, they don't really bite. When the one grabbed the guy at the beginning of Tremors 2, it basically just swallowed the guy whole. Didn't bite him at all. So yeah, even if one does just come up under Lucy, it won't be inflicting any serious harm on her before she turns its head into confetti.

Except that they will all but give up when they can't harm them, just like in the first movie. And seeing as how they are intelligent, they are going to go after something else next.

You mean like when the one attacked the car at the beginning of the first movie? It couldn't harm the car... and proceeded to freaking pull the car into the damn ground.

I think you forgot how scaling works IR. If the Berserk Seismo is at the same size as everyone else in the match, than Berserk Fuhrer is going to be relatively tiny in comparison. They are from the same universe, and a Berserk Fuhrer even appears in Fuzors at the same size as the original series to boot. You don't get to pick and choose how much each combatant is scaled to your choosing. Either Seismo is huge and Berserk Fuhrer is the same size as the others, or BF is tiny.

wat

That makes ZERO sense dude. Say I make an FM... Stag Beetle vs. White Rhinoceros, rules being that they're scaled. According to your logic, their sized wouldn't be changed to match each other. Meaning they wouldn't be scaled. The entire POINT of scaling is to make the fighters comparably sized. That's the very reason I NEVER use the giant "boss" Zoids like Death Stinger or Deathsaurer in these team tournaments: because matches are scaled they lose their one real advantage and become absolutely inferior to the likes of BF, GB, LZ, etc.

You grossley over estimate Lucy's dodging ability. Lucy barely dodged anything other than vectors, which don't move nearly as quickly as any of the beams in this match. She can move around with her vectors, but it would not be nearly fast enough to get out of the way of Ramiel's beam (especially considering it does pretty substantial damage to adjacent area around the beam).

She leaped over bullet fire when fighting the special forces troops at the end of the series. There's also the fact that it's blatantly obvious when Ramiel is about to fire. She'll have plenty of time to get out of the way.

And its all fine and dandy that Ramiel has no AT field. The problem is it wastes zero time in targeting and firing a beam that would kill anything on your team except maybe ZX-Tole.

Okay? You make it sound like my team is made of immobile Heisei kaiju that just stand there and let everything hit them. It's not. If they see a beam charging, they'll either get out of the way or block it with a shield. If Ramiel fires at ZX-Tole, he'll fly out of the way and shoot back. That won't end well for Ramiel. If Ramiel fires at Lucy, she'll either get out of the way or grab a member of the opposing team and use them as a meatshield. If Ramiel fires at BF, he'll just block it with his shield and then return fire with his own CPC.

The BF might be able to move out of the way, but unless it uses it's shield it is a goner. The BF's using its CPC would also leave it open to attack while it charges.

Unless it uses its shield? Dude, BF blocked EVERY SINGLE THING FIRED AT IT, with the sole exception of that sneak attack from the Shadow Fox.

[GojiFan]

You mean like when the one attacked the car at the beginning of the first movie? It couldn't harm the car... and proceeded to freaking pull the car into the damn ground.

No, I mean the Bulldozer that they failed to do anything to until they dug a hole way out in front of it. Except in this scenario, they are just gonna go for something else.

wat

That makes ZERO sense dude. Say I make an FM... Stag Beetle vs. White Rhinoceros, rules being that they're scaled. According to your logic, their sized wouldn't be changed to match each other. Meaning they wouldn't be scaled. The entire POINT of scaling is to make the fighters comparably sized. That's the very reason I NEVER use the giant "boss" Zoids like Death Stinger or Deathsaurer in these team tournaments: because matches are scaled they lose their one real advantage and become absolutely inferior to the likes of BF, GB, LZ, etc.

Yes, it is to scale them to similar size. But you have to keep into consideration that the two are form the same universe. If I were to make a match with Showa Ghidorah and Heisei Gamera vs Showa Godzilla and Irys, I'm not suddenly going to scale Ghidorah less. The Seismo is scaled to the BF in it's universe. As I said, if one or the other was missing from the match you could make the point to scale one up more or the other down, but having them both in the same match you keep them with the same size ratio. Not like this matters since Draglord already cleared it up.

She leaped over bullet fire when fighting the special forces troops at the end of the series. There's also the fact that it's blatantly obvious when Ramiel is about to fire. She'll have plenty of time to get out of the way.

No she didn't. The first time she leaped they were too busy staring at her like a bunch of idiots. The second time she did she was already blocking bullets with her vectors when she jumped over to them.

And the beam is only blatantly obvious to people who are expecting it to happen. The viewer and the people in the Evangelion universe knew and could predict it firing it's beam. People from other universes like Guyver and Zoids could probably figure it out considering they see weapons like that all the time. Lucy does not. And as I said earlier, it is a completely moot point since the beam damages a much wider area around it than just where the beam itself connects.

Okay? You make it sound like my team is made of immobile Heisei kaiju that just stand there and let everything hit them. It's not. If they see a beam charging, they'll either get out of the way or block it with a shield. If Ramiel fires at ZX-Tole, he'll fly out of the way and shoot back. That won't end well for Ramiel. If Ramiel fires at Lucy, she'll either get out of the way or grab a member of the opposing team and use them as a meatshield. If Ramiel fires at BF, he'll just block it with his shield and then return fire with his own CPC.

No they aren't, but they probably aren't expecting to be shot at the instant the fight starts. ZX-Tole is probably agile enough, and the BF may be as well if it doesn't use its shield. But Lucy is most certainly not..

How is Lucy going to grab someone and put them in the way when her vectors travel much slower than Ramiel's beam? That isn't even taking into account if there is no one in range of her to grab, her reaction time, etc. I already covered that she isn't going to dodge it.

And the BF return fire with its CPC? You mean the several seconds where it is going to be just standing there like a sitting duck? Yeah, that totally will work considering the Seismo ALSO has a CPC along with laser cannons that were capable of disabling the Gojulas Giga in a single shot.

Unless it uses its shield? Dude, BF blocked EVERY SINGLE THING FIRED AT IT, with the sole exception of that sneak attack from the Shadow Fox.

Someone needs to watch the series again. The Fury rarely used the shield, and only used it twice during the final fight. Van even shot at it with the Liger's cannons and scored several hits.

[Inferno Rodan]

No, I mean the Bulldozer that they failed to do anything to until they dug a hole way out in front of it. Except in this scenario, they are just gonna go for something else.

Looks like someone is forgetting that the fighters are human sized.

As I said, if one or the other was missing from the match you could make the point to scale one up more or the other down, but having them both in the same match you keep them with the same size ratio.

Funny how you tell me I can't pick and choose how scaling works, then you go and say this...

No she didn't. The first time she leaped they were too busy staring at her like a bunch of idiots. The second time she did she was already blocking bullets with her vectors when she jumped over to them.

Point conceded.

And the beam is only blatantly obvious to people who are expecting it to happen. The viewer and the people in the Evangelion universe knew and could predict it firing it's beam. People from other universes like Guyver and Zoids could probably figure it out considering they see weapons like that all the time. Lucy does not.

Yeah, and after Ramiel fires it once they'll know what to expect. The whole "changing shape" thing is kind of a dead giveaway. Assuming Lucy isn't the first one targeted, I think it's safe to say she'll be smart enough to either move or grab a meatshield once she sees Ramiel going all modern art.

And as I said earlier, it is a completely moot point since the beam damages a much wider area around it than just where the beam itself connects.

It's not like everything within a 20 foot radius of the beam will get torched. As long as she's more than like 5 feet away from the beam itself she'll be fine.

How is Lucy going to grab someone and put them in the way when her vectors travel much slower than Ramiel's beam? That isn't even taking into account if there is no one in range of her to grab, her reaction time, etc. I already covered that she isn't going to dodge it.

Ramiel has an obvious charge time before firing. More than enough time to either grab a nearby enemy, move out of the way, or just cleave Ramiel in two if she happens to be close enough.

And the BF return fire with its CPC? You mean the several seconds where it is going to be just standing there like a sitting duck?

The time between Ramiel's beams is sufficient for BF to charge and fire his own CPC. It takes about 9 seconds for BF to charge and fire his CPC (could probably even start charging with the shield up, since the Geno Breaker was able to do that, but that's admittedly just speculation). Counting from when Ramiel stopped firing his first beam at Unit 01, it took about 10 seconds to fire the second. Worst-case scenario, they get into a beam lock which leaves them both open to attack from everyone else. And even then, CPCs in the Zoids universe carry a ridiculous amount of kinetic energy, so BF's CPC would likely push Ramiel's back and vape the Angel anyway.

Yeah, that totally will work considering the Seismo ALSO has a CPC along with laser cannons that were capable of disabling the Gojulas Giga in a single shot.

...The Gojulas Giga, which was a fraction the Seismo's size. The fact that the Gojulas Giga wasn't completely annihilated just shows that the beams aren't terribly strong compared to Seismo's ridiculous size.

And Seismo is going to get annihilated within 30 seconds of the match starting anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

Someone needs to watch the series again. The Fury rarely used the shield, and only used it twice during the final fight. Van even shot at it with the Liger's cannons and scored several hits.

*Bit

And the only way you could say BF "rarely" used his shield is if you compare the time the shield was activated to the total time he was in battle. Every single shot fired at him, from the Genosaurers' CPCs, to LZ Panzer's Hybrid Cannons, to the Shadow Fox's Laser Vulcan was blocked. The only one that ever hit him when he was still in good fighting condition was the sneak attack from the Shadow Fox. The hits from LZ's cannon came after his performance had been drastically reduced due to pilot fatigue. The fact that LZ's Organoid System had by that time adapted to counter BF didn't help the situation, either.

[Primevalgodzilla V2]

Yeah, and after Ramiel fires it once they'll know what to expect. The whole "changing shape" thing is kind of a dead giveaway. Assuming Lucy isn't the first one targeted, I think it's safe to say she'll be smart enough to either move or grab a meatshield once she sees Ramiel going all modern art.

Moving won't really help if Ramiel goes for a wide sweep. Not only is this sweep really accurate, striking all of NERV's missiles, it is also fast blowing up the whole circle almost simulataneusly. If Lucy proves to be ahrd to hit he will either do that or fire a really powerful shot.

It's not like everything within a 20 foot radius of the beam will get torched. As long as she's more than like 5 feet away from the beam itself she'll be fine.

Again, wide sweep.

The time between Ramiel's beams is sufficient for BF to charge and fire his own CPC. It takes about 9 seconds for BF to charge and fire his CPC (could probably even start charging with the shield up, since the Geno Breaker was able to do that, but that's admittedly just speculation). Counting from when Ramiel stopped firing his first beam at Unit 01, it took about 10 seconds to fire the second. Worst-case scenario, they get into a beam lock which leaves them both open to attack from everyone else. And even then, CPCs in the Zoids universe carry a ridiculous amount of kinetic energy, so BF's CPC would likely push Ramiel's back and vape the Angel anyway.

Thing is, the CPC is not the only thing in BF's arsenal, at times even simply a finisher. Chances are, he will be spamming those Claw Cannons while Ramiel fires his only payload.

[GojiFan]

Looks like someone is forgetting that the fighters are human sized.

Ok, so the Graboids are gonna pull down a robotic dinosaur made of pure metal that likely weighs much more than a car even at human size? Since no weight is available for the one that appears in the anime, the manga version would still weigh 36 tons at 2 meters tall. That is right around the weight of an averaged size bulldozer.

Yeah, and after Ramiel fires it once they'll know what to expect. The whole "changing shape" thing is kind of a dead giveaway. Assuming Lucy isn't the first one targeted, I think it's safe to say she'll be smart enough to either move or grab a meatshield once she sees Ramiel going all modern art.

Which as I said before, what makes you think she will even be in range of anything to grab if Ramiel shoots at her? And again, her ability to dodge is basically useless as the only thing she dodged were the slow moving vectors. She is not nearly fast enough to dodge the beam if it is already coming at her.

It's not like everything within a 20 foot radius of the beam will get torched. As long as she's more than like 5 feet away from the beam itself she'll be fine.

This isn't the original Ramiel. This is the Rebuild version that basically melted an entire mountain/hill side with one shot from its beam. The Rebuild version of Ramiel definitely has a more destructive area of effect than the original version.

Ramiel has an obvious charge time before firing. More than enough time to either grab a nearby enemy, move out of the way, or just cleave Ramiel in two if she happens to be close enough.

So you conceded the point where she didn't dodge anything but the comparatively slow moving vectors, yet you continue to say she can just move out of the way. As PG said, even if that were the case (which it isn't), Ramiel is fully capable of sweeping its beam. You are also failing to consider that the only member of PG's team who would even consider melee combat is Empera, so no one will be in range to grab. And she isn't nearly strong enough to lift something as heavy as the Seismo would be. Chances are when Ramiel and Seismo are shooting beams from the very start she isn't going to have the time to get close enough to grab Empera.

The time between Ramiel's beams is sufficient for BF to charge and fire his own CPC. It takes about 9 seconds for BF to charge and fire his CPC (could probably even start charging with the shield up, since the Geno Breaker was able to do that, but that's admittedly just speculation). Counting from when Ramiel stopped firing his first beam at Unit 01, it took about 10 seconds to fire the second. Worst-case scenario, they get into a beam lock which leaves them both open to attack from everyone else. And even then, CPCs in the Zoids universe carry a ridiculous amount of kinetic energy, so BF's CPC would likely push Ramiel's back and vape the Angel anyway.

And this is ignoring the possible dozens of beams and another CPC coming from Seismo. You talk about Ramiel having an obvious charge up time, what about BF? Ramiel may take those 9 or so seconds to fire another beam, but the charge up time itself is very short in comparison to the Fury's. Anyone on PG's team is going to be able to notice that and fire back at it in its vulnerable state.

...The Gojulas Giga, which was a fraction the Seismo's size. The fact that the Gojulas Giga wasn't completely annihilated just shows that the beams aren't terribly strong compared to Seismo's ridiculous size.

A fraction of the size? The Gojulas Giga was nearly half the height of the Seismo, and took a single shot to put down from one of over thirty of those cannons mounted on the Seismo. If you don't think a couple of those, even at the same size as the Fury and everyone else, wouldn't severely damage or even destroy the Fury you are delusional.

And Seismo is going to get annihilated within 30 seconds of the match starting anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

Quite frankly, nearly everyone is going to be annihilated that quickly. Everyone on both teams has more than enough firepower to KO someone on the other team. The match is going to pretty much come down to which beams hit first.

And the only way you could say BF "rarely" used his shield is if you compare the time the shield was activated to the total time he was in battle. Every single shot fired at him, from the Genosaurers' CPCs, to LZ Panzer's Hybrid Cannons, to the Shadow Fox's Laser Vulcan was blocked. The only one that ever hit him when he was still in good fighting condition was the sneak attack from the Shadow Fox. The hits from LZ's cannon came after his performance had been drastically reduced due to pilot fatigue. The fact that LZ's Organoid System had by that time adapted to counter BF didn't help the situation, either.

So he was shot at a grand total of 5 times, and used it a total of 3 times. Two of those times he had plenty of time to activate it. And the part about the organoid system is.. well an excuse. You conveniently leave out that the Fury ALSO has an organoid system that ALSO had adapted to Bit's Liger Zero. They were both on even footing, just as it will be here in this match.

[Inferno Rodan]

Moving won't really help if Ramiel goes for a wide sweep. Not only is this sweep really accurate, striking all of NERV's missiles, it is also fast blowing up the whole circle almost simulataneusly. If Lucy proves to be ahrd to hit he will either do that or fire a really powerful shot.

Again, wide sweep.

As PG said, even if that were the case (which it isn't), Ramiel is fully capable of sweeping its beam.

Responding to all these in one go. The sweeping beam takes a specific configuration which takes quite a while to form, and he only uses it defensively (i.e. to shoot down missiles which are coming at him from all directions). He never tracked a target with any sort of speed using any of his beams.

Thing is, the CPC is not the only thing in BF's arsenal, at times even simply a finisher. Chances are, he will be spamming those Claw Cannons while Ramiel fires his only payload.

Speaking of BF's beam cannons, those things are stupidly powerful on their own. One shot literally cut off two of the Shadow Fox's legs with zero effort, and the SF is by no means a frail Zoid. They'd hurt the shit outta whoever they hit in this match.

Ok, so the Graboids are gonna pull down a robotic dinosaur made of pure metal that likely weighs much more than a car even at human size? Since no weight is available for the one that appears in the anime, the manga version would still weigh 36 tons at 2 meters tall. That is right around the weight of an averaged size bulldozer.

Yeah, you did the math wrong there, broseph. The square-cube law doesn't work like that. Normal stats for Seismosaurus are 10.9 meters tall and 198 tons. At 2 meters tall (which is WAY bigger than human size, btw, since he'd still be just shy of 10 meters long at that point), he'd weigh 1.2 tons.

Which as I said before, what makes you think she will even be in range of anything to grab if Ramiel shoots at her? And again, her ability to dodge is basically useless as the only thing she dodged were the slow moving vectors. She is not nearly fast enough to dodge the beam if it is already coming at her.

What part of "obvious transformation and charge time gives her plenty opportunty to move" don't you understand?

This isn't the original Ramiel. This is the Rebuild version that basically melted an entire mountain/hill side with one shot from its beam. The Rebuild version of Ramiel definitely has a more destructive area of effect than the original version.

Only on the stronger settings of his beam. His standard one isn't any stronger than the original's, and doesn't affect any larger of an area.

So you conceded the point where she didn't dodge anything but the comparatively slow moving vectors, yet you continue to say she can just move out of the way.

The vectors may be slow moving compared to the beam, but the fact that they're invisible and don't have a freaking charge time kinda negates that fact.

You are also failing to consider that the only member of PG's team who would even consider melee combat is Empera, so no one will be in range to grab. And she isn't nearly strong enough to lift something as heavy as the Seismo would be. Chances are when Ramiel and Seismo are shooting beams from the very start she isn't going to have the time to get close enough to grab Empera.

Again, Seismo is nearly a non-factor because he'll be scrap within 30 seconds of the match starting.

And considering the reach her vectors have, she doesn't need to be "close" to grab him.

And this is ignoring the possible dozens of beams and another CPC coming from Seismo. You talk about Ramiel having an obvious charge up time, what about BF? Ramiel may take those 9 or so seconds to fire another beam, but the charge up time itself is very short in comparison to the Fury's. Anyone on PG's team is going to be able to notice that and fire back at it in its vulnerable state.

Seismo. Dead in 30 seconds. Non-factor. And Empera will be too busy dealing with Lucy and ZX-Tole at that point to be paying any attention to what BF's doing.

A fraction of the size? The Gojulas Giga was nearly half the height of the Seismo, and took a single shot to put down from one of over thirty of those cannons mounted on the Seismo. If you don't think a couple of those, even at the same size as the Fury and everyone else, wouldn't severely damage or even destroy the Fury you are delusional.

Keep in mind the listed height for Seismosaurus is its estimated shoulder height.

I'm curious. Have you actually SEEN Fuzors? Or are you just going by the histories and power descriptions on the Archives? Because that's what it sounds like you're doing.

Here's the deal. Seismosaurus is the slowest, least aggressive "giant boss" Zoid in all of the Zoids anime series. It basically just stands there and lets itself get shot at most of the time. It fired its beam cannons like 7 times in its entire run in the show. Once was against the Gojulas Giga. Once was a full broadside against the Liger Zero Falcon and Gairyuki - the cannons charged before firing for this, and it was the only time they were really impressive. Two were just random sprays for the sake of causing property damage. As Berserk Seismo, it did 3 more series of shots at LZ Falcon toward the end, and it should be noted that these were MUCH weaker than previous uses, no stronger than what would come from a normal-sized Zoid. Point is, Berserk Seismo just sat there and fired its Sword Rail Cannon most of the time. It fired is CPC twice, but by CPC standards, it's weak as hell considering the size of what it's coming from. At that huge size it's only marginally stronger than the CPCs fired by the Genosaurer/Breaker and BF. It also tends to take freaking forever to charge and fire. Nearly 30 seconds for the first shot, though the 2nd was a near-instant desperation attack.

Also, here's the result of the hit the Gojulas Giga took from the laser cannon:
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q54/ ... m01s85.png

A damaged right shoulder. GG just collapsed after that. It's not like the hit wrecked him or anything.

Quite frankly, nearly everyone is going to be annihilated that quickly. Everyone on both teams has more than enough firepower to KO someone on the other team. The match is going to pretty much come down to which beams hit first.

And considering my team has fighters that are more mobile and/or have energy shields, that's advantageous for me.

So he was shot at a grand total of 5 times, and used it a total of 3 times. Two of those times he had plenty of time to activate it.

And of the two that weren't blocked, one was a sneak attack and the other was against an opponent that had adapted to perfectly counter his movements. It should also be said that both of them were done when his pilot was operating at less than 50% capacity (taken directly from dialogue).

And you make it sound like he won't have plenty of time to activate it against Ramiel.

And the part about the organoid system is.. well an excuse. You conveniently leave out that the Fury ALSO has an organoid system that ALSO had adapted to Bit's Liger Zero. They were both on even footing, just as it will be here in this match.

They WEREN'T on even footing at that point. LZ's Organoid System had taken a sudden leap and was perfectly countering everything the (weakened) BF was doing. BF's own Organoid System made a similar leap at the very end and began countering LZ just as effectively. That's just how the Organoid Systems work.

[Primevalgodzilla V2]

Responding to all these in one go. The sweeping beam takes a specific configuration which takes quite a while to form, and he only uses it defensively (i.e. to shoot down missiles which are coming at him from all directions). He never tracked a target with any sort of speed using any of his beams.

But then again, I don;t remember him fighting a quick-moving target, save for those missiles. He shot Eva-01 while he was still in the catapult, and the in the second fight, Eva-01 was mostly trying to aim the positron cannon. I think, based on his attitude towards the missiles he would use it against moving targets. Configuration is a problem, but as long as Lucy doesn;t target the core (and it would likely survive a few vectors), she won't see such a fast sweep coming.

Speaking of BF's beam cannons, those things are stupidly powerful on their own. One shot literally cut off two of the Shadow Fox's legs with zero effort, and the SF is by no means a frail Zoid. They'd hurt the shit outta whoever they hit in this match.

Won't deal as much damage as Ramiel would with his particle beam if they shot at each other. And even less if he isn't firing a beam at the time, meaning his core is protected. And I don't think they will do more than annoy Empera anyway, knowing his insane durability.

[Stuckey]

I watched the final episode of Mebius last night. Empera is a really lousy fighter in that episode. He just stands around because he's so cocky. He doesn't even try destroying the Final METEOR when it's sitting right in front of him for like 5 minutes. He's durable as hell though, so he'd be able to take several stupidly strong attacks before going down.
But everyone one PG's team seems to be like heavily armored stationary turrets. Empera hardly moves around, Ramiel doesn't move unless it needs to get somewhere, and the Seismo is incredibly slow. The superior mobility of IR's team is going to give them the edge. And I don't think they have to worry about Seismo's cannons as they were very easily destroyed in the show, so the BF's beam cannons(which are quite strong) should be able to blow them up very easily.
So I'm going to still give the win to IR. Though I doubt anybody besides ZX-Tole or the BF(not both) would be standing on his team at the end of this battle.

[GojiFan]

I would probably say ZX-Tole. The later characters in the Guyver series are pretty ridiculous.

[Primevalgodzilla V2]

I watched the final episode of Mebius last night. Empera is a really lousy fighter in that episode. He just stands around because he's so cocky. He doesn't even try destroying the Final METEOR when it's sitting right in front of him for like 5 minutes. He's durable as hell though, so he'd be able to take several stupidly strong attacks before going down.

I was under the impression he let the Ultramen throw anything they wanted at him because he wanted to show the Ultra Father just how weak his warriors were. He certainly did no such favours to Zamshaa, blowing him of his feet before he even got close, or for that matter, Psychoknio, Mephilas or the GUYS Team. I'd figure he has some respect towards his ancient enemy. He only let Zamshaa get close when Hikari turned up. He's not agile, but then, he was dealing with very agile foes and still kicked their asses. And I don't think IR's team will do much to him unless they all focus their firepower on him. He blocked a sword which split a 7km asteroid into half his bare hand.

I was relying on GaoGaiGar to go melee on the opposition's asses actually. But he's gone, so bah.

[RedZillaKing]

I would probably say ZX-Tole. The later characters in the Guyver series are pretty ridiculous.

I'm inclined to agree. On top of his ridiculous fighting abilities he's got that insane armor. Neo ZX Tole is the last man standing. Primeval's team (especially Empera) isn't a joke by any stretch... but I don't see Neo ZX Tole going down. Not in this fight (glances at someone's broken ass team in the distance).

BTW, am I the only one seeing Lucy being ignored/dismissed/underestimated by the other combatants? I say she stays alive for a while due to being perceived as the least threatening thing in the arena. Maybe she gets a kill before she goes down...

[Draglord]

Just a heads up. Voting starts on May 19th at 12:00 AM EST and ends at 11:59 PM EST on the same day. Please post you think should win in BOLD.

[Stuckey]

Not in this fight (glances at someone's broken ass team in the distance).

Gee, I wonder which team you're talking about.

[Primevalgodzilla V2]

BTW, am I the only one seeing Lucy being ignored/dismissed/underestimated by the other combatants? I say she stays alive for a while due to being perceived as the least threatening thing in the arena. Maybe she gets a kill before she goes down...

I don't know, I see Empera targeting her first because of his specific hatred of humans. In any case, its likely Berserk Seismo and Lucy will be neutralised pretty quick, leaving this Empera and Ramiel vs Berserk Fuhrer and ZX-tole. I think it will eventually boil down to Empera and ZX-tole, and then its down to who's tougher.

[RedZillaKing]

You know what though? Unlike the final fight in Mebius, Empera is gonna be facing enemies that are very much in his league. Unless he's stupid he'll be paying full attention to the Fuhrer and Neo ZX Tole. I don't personally think Lucy can kill him even by sneaking... But Ramiel might be in danger of recieving heavy damage and the B. Seismo... Well we all know what Lucy likes to do to necks.

FTR, I agree... It will come down to Empera and Neo ZX Tole.

I hate to say it: Inferno Rodan

[Primevalgodzilla V2]

Lucy won't be able to kill Ramiel unless he exposes his core. That is, if Lucy knows to target the core. If not she might as well be slashing as air. His offensive capabilities are also very dangerous, and he can likely severely wound the ZX-tole if a beam on its more powerful settings makes contact. Berserk Seismo's kinda a non-factor but his 31 lasers will be very difficult for Lucy to dodge, and all that is neeed is one of two to connect to neutralise her.

I'm assuming people can't vote for themselves here, but if they can, you know who I would vote for. (Primevalgodzilla)

[Zillaowner]

Primevalgodzilla