Rodan and kumonga vs King Ghidorah

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Actually Ghidorah chased Rodan. Regardless, Godzilla was as landbound as Kumonga will be.

Yeah, Ghidorah chased Rodan, because Rodan slapped his feet against Ghidorah's face. Rodan did that for reasons I already stated. So yeah, Rodan brought Ghidorah into the air, because Ghidorah was messing with Godzilla.

Whether or not it only happened once it showed Rodan's superiority in the air. He outmaneuvered/outsmarted Ghidorah, no two ways about it.

Too bad that, if that's the case, the fight won't last longer than a few seconds in the air. Ghidorah prefers to keep the fight to the ground. Rodan may be better in the air, but Ghidorah won't be going to the air.

You're saying this despite direct film evidence to the contrary. Rodan is the superior combatant in the air.

If the fight goes to the air, it will end after a few seconds. Ghidorah will go back to the ground, and Kumonga will be far away by that point. So much so, that he might as well be out of the battle by that point, and it's just Rodan against Ghidorah, which Ghidorah wins.

No, Rodan's attacks were damaging on their own. End of story.

I have yet to see any evidence that proves Rodan's attacks would cause any damage to King Ghidorah, other than knocking him over, which Ghidorah can quickly get back up from. Rodan can ram him, but those rams hardly ever did anything to Ghidorah in the movies. Ghidorah just shrugged them off, got back up, and kept fighting.

Then why did Ghidorah flee the Earth like a bat out of hell? The space dragon was driven from their territory, Goji and Rodan won.

How do we know that Godzilla and Rodan didn't flee like crazy too? They were driven from their territory too. They didn't surface. It was a tie. Godzilla and Rodan would have won if they had surfaced, and roared in victory at the fleeing Ghidorah. They didn't. We don't know what happened to them. It's similar to the end of King Kong vs. Godzilla: Kong surfaced, Godzilla didn't. Kong won. Had Godzilla surfaced, it would have been a tie.

[RedZillaKing]

Yeah, Ghidorah chased Rodan, because Rodan slapped his feet against Ghidorah's face..

So... they were fighting?

Rodan did that for reasons I already stated. So yeah, Rodan brought Ghidorah into the air, because Ghidorah was messing with Godzilla.

Rodan did that because he was fighting Ghidorah. Each monster was trying to hurt him. You have no proof whatsoever that it was motivated by concern for Godzilla.

Whether or not it only happened once it showed Rodan's superiority in the air. He outmaneuvered/outsmarted Ghidorah, no two ways about it.

Too bad that, if that's the case, the fight won't last longer than a few seconds in the air. Ghidorah prefers to keep the fight to the ground. Rodan may be better in the air, but Ghidorah won't be going to the air.

So? We all know Ghidorah fights on the ground. Who are you arguing with-yourself? If Ghidorah chases Rodan, he'll be at a disadvantage in the air. My entire point is that the ram attack hurt him.

If the fight goes to the air, it will end after a few seconds. Ghidorah will go back to the ground, and Kumonga will be far away by that point. So much so, that he might as well be out of the battle by that point, and it's just Rodan against Ghidorah, which Ghidorah wins.

Yeah because the brief dogfight brought them so far from the other monsters.... No, wait.. they stayed in the same area.

I have yet to see any evidence that proves Rodan's attacks would cause any damage to King Ghidorah, other than knocking him over, which Ghidorah can quickly get back up from. Rodan can ram him, but those rams hardly ever did anything to Ghidorah in the movies. Ghidorah just shrugged them off, got back up, and kept fighting.

Cop out. Goji's attacks never caused any apparent damage either, yet their concerted effort drove Ghidorah away. Each successive hit hurt Ghidorah, that's why he retreated. That's why they won. If a monster half your size knocks you on your ass, it's one hell of a hit. Regardless of whether you want to discount the attack or not.

How do we know that Godzilla and Rodan didn't flee like crazy too? They were driven from their territory too.

First of all, Godzilla's territory is the water. Rodan would've flown off if he fled. The two monsters were clearly resting under the sea. Everything up to that point showed that the Earth monsters were winning. And if they had fled, Ghidorah would've stayed and destroyed the world.

They didn't surface. It was a tie. Godzilla and Rodan would have won if they had surfaced, and roared in victory at the fleeing Ghidorah. They didn't. We don't know what happened to them. It's similar to the end of King Kong vs. Godzilla: Kong surfaced, Godzilla didn't. Kong won. Had Godzilla surfaced, it would have been a tie.

Except Kong, like the two Earth monsters, was the hero of the film. He was heading home for some rest. Everything up to the point where Kong and Goji fell into the ocean showed Kong shocking Goji and beating him. Kong left, Ghidorah fled.

[miguelnuva]

How do we know that Godzilla and Rodan didn't flee like crazy too? They were driven from their territory too. They didn't surface. It was a tie. Godzilla and Rodan would have won if they had surfaced, and roared in victory at the fleeing Ghidorah. They didn't. We don't know what happened to them. It's similar to the end of King Kong vs. Godzilla: Kong surfaced, Godzilla didn't. Kong won. Had Godzilla surfaced, it would have been a tie.

When have we know Godzilla or Rodan to flee like crazy, we've seen Ghidorah leave and try to leave time after time.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Yeah because the brief dogfight brought them so far from the other monsters.... No, wait.. they stayed in the same area.

...No. They landed further up on the mountain where they were fighting. Had they stayed in the same area, Godzilla and Mothra wouldn't have had to go up the mountain. They had to walk a considerable length to reach Ghidorah and Rodan.

Goji's attacks never caused any apparent damage either, yet their concerted effort drove Ghidorah away.

Um...no. Godzilla's attacks were not the thing that drove Ghidorah away. In GTTHM, Ghidorah was driven away, because the webbing caused him to be unable to attack his opponents, so they could just keep attacking him all they wanted, and he wouldn't be able to fight back. Had it not be for the webbing, Ghidorah could have kept going all day. In IotAM, Ghidorah was driven away, because of their big tumble down into the water, which wasn't all Godzilla's doing.

So yeah, there's no proof that Godzilla's attacks were the driving force being Ghidorah's retreat.

First of all, Godzilla's territory is the water

By territory, I mean the spot where they were fighting. Ghidorah has no territory on earth, so what territory can he be driven away from?

Rodan would've flown off if he fled.

Maybe Rodan can swim. If he can't, then he probably died at the end of IotAM, and I would seriously consider that a win for King Ghidorah.

And if they had fled, Ghidorah would've stayed and destroyed the world.

...What kind of sense does that make? Does it ever occur to you that they both fled? That as soon as they hit the water, Godzilla and Rodan swam away, fleeing, and King Ghidorah flew away, fleeing.

King Ghidorah still fled, I'm not saying he didn't, but I'm also saying that Godzilla and Rodan fled too. King Ghidorah just didn't know that they fled.

Except Kong, like the two Earth monsters, was the hero of the film. He was heading home for some rest. Everything up to the point where Kong and Goji fell into the ocean showed Kong shocking Goji and beating him. Kong left, Ghidorah fled.

You're missing my point. It doesn't matter who the hero of the film is. Hell, Godzilla and Rodan are not the hero's of their film, that would be Glen and Fuji. It also doesn't matter who was winning up until that point. What matters is who came out on top. In KKvsG, it was Kong, because he rose from the water, and Godzilla did not. In IotAM, neither monster won, because they all fled.

[miguelnuva]

Rodan would've flown off if he fled.

Maybe Rodan can swim. If he can't, then he probably died at the end of IotAM, and I would seriously consider that a win for King Ghidorah.


...What kind of sense does that make? Does it ever occur to you that they both fled? That as soon as they hit the water, Godzilla and Rodan swam away, fleeing, and King Ghidorah flew away, fleeing.

King Ghidorah still fled, I'm not saying he didn't, but I'm also saying that Godzilla and Rodan fled too. King Ghidorah just didn't know that they fled.

Still when has Godzilla ever fled before, for all we know he stood his ground against Ghidorah and then pulled Rodan to safety.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Still when has Godzilla ever fled before, for all we know he stood his ground against Ghidorah and then pulled Rodan to safety.

And also, for all we know, Godzilla did flee. There's no evidence to prove that Godzilla stood his ground. If he did, he would have risen from the sea pretty quickly. He didn't. He's either unconscious at the bottom of the sea, or running away.

[miguelnuva]

Still when has Godzilla ever fled before, for all we know he stood his ground against Ghidorah and then pulled Rodan to safety.

And also, for all we know, Godzilla did flee. There's no evidence to prove that Godzilla stood his ground. If he did, he would have risen from the sea pretty quickly. He didn't. He's either unconscious at the bottom of the sea, or running away.

Or there was no need to rise because Ghidorah was running away.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Still when has Godzilla ever fled before, for all we know he stood his ground against Ghidorah and then pulled Rodan to safety.

And also, for all we know, Godzilla did flee. There's no evidence to prove that Godzilla stood his ground. If he did, he would have risen from the sea pretty quickly. He didn't. He's either unconscious at the bottom of the sea, or running away.

Or there was no need to rise because Ghidorah was running away.

How do Godzilla and Rodan know that Ghidorah was running away?

[RedZillaKing]

...No. They landed further up on the mountain where they were fighting. Had they stayed in the same area, Godzilla and Mothra wouldn't have had to go up the mountain. They had to walk a considerable length to reach Ghidorah and Rodan.

Except it took the monsters mere minutes to catch up with them. Godzilla wasn't even walking fast. It was the same area. Hell, Godzilla would've been there quicker if he didn't wait to give little Mothra a ride. Kumonga would get there faster. Claiming that they'd be too far away is silly based on what we saw in the film. Rodan handled himself just fine too, using the mountain terrain as cover from the grav. beams.

Um...no. Godzilla's attacks were not the thing that drove Ghidorah away.

That's just... Not true. I hope you don't actually believe that. Godzilla's attacks did contribute both times. I guess you're willing to ignore the fact that Goji threw him and pelted him with gigantic boulders at the end.

In GTTHM, Ghidorah was driven away, because the webbing caused him to be unable to attack his opponents, so they could just keep attacking him all they wanted, and he wouldn't be able to fight back. Had it not be for the webbing, Ghidorah could have kept going all day.

First of all, you know what a concerted effort is, right? It had everything to do with Ghidorah being bound and recieving an ass whoopin'. As for him going all day, the sequel to this film suggests otherwise.

In IotAM, Ghidorah was driven away, because of their big tumble down into the water, which wasn't all Godzilla's doing.

I love how this turned into me somehow giving Goji credit for everything. I didn't BTW. My position was that it was an equal effort on both parts. There was fighting going on underwater, which drove Ghidorah away. BTW, the monsters knocked Ghidorah off the cliff. What is your point?

So yeah, there's no proof that Godzilla's attacks were the driving force being Ghidorah's retreat.

I suppose not... if you close your eyes and ears while the film is playing. I honestly am running out of ways to respond to these increasingly ridiculous claims. The attacks of both (or all three, depending on the film) monsters forced Ghidorah's retreat.

By territory, I mean the spot where they were fighting. Ghidorah has no territory on earth, so what territory can he be driven away from?

The Earth monsters' territory. The place they were defending.

Maybe Rodan can swim. If he can't, then he probably died at the end of IotAM, and I would seriously consider that a win for King Ghidorah.

Yeah, but why would Rodan swim away if he was fleeing? He would fly away, just like Ghidorah. You're not making any sense. It would take more effort for an animal that's built for flying to swim away than it would to fly away. Conclusion: He was resting under the water. Or maybe he died and that's his Ghost in DAM.

...What kind of sense does that make? Does it ever occur to you that they both fled? That as soon as they hit the water, Godzilla and Rodan swam away, fleeing, and King Ghidorah flew away, fleeing.

No, it didn't. I stated why that's silly for Rodan already. Godzilla wouldn't flee because his enemy was driven away. Are you seriously suggesting that Godzilla fled once he had a serious terrain advantage?

King Ghidorah still fled, I'm not saying he didn't, but I'm also saying that Godzilla and Rodan fled too. King Ghidorah just didn't know that they fled.

And I'm saying they didn't. Why would they?

You're missing my point. It doesn't matter who the hero of the film is. Hell, Godzilla and Rodan are not the hero's of their film, that would be Glen and Fuji.

I'll say "Monster heroes" next time to avoid your unnecessary nitpicks. They were the heroic monsters, only attacking the cities under mind control. Unless your going to somehow claim that Ghidorah was the misunderstood hero of the film. At this point (as I stare in disbelief at half of your arguments) I wouldn't be surprised.

It also doesn't matter who was winning up until that point. What matters is who came out on top. In KKvsG, it was Kong, because he rose from the water, and Godzilla did not. In IotAM, neither monster won, because they all fled.

The conclusion that they all fled is baseless and entirely improbable. It's more likely that a brief battle occurred under the water that drove Ghidorah away.

Do you know what's funny about this? We agree on the outcome. It just doesn't make sense that Rodan wouldn't be able to hurt Ghidorah. You've invented all these little side ideas just to get away from the main side point which is backed up by the movie. Anyways, I'm going to bed. I can't wait to see what you conjure up tomorrow.

[miguelnuva]

How do Godzilla and Rodan know that Ghidorah was running away?

They can see him fly away it's not that hard to see underwater.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

You know what, I'm skreeonk done with this. Just reading over your post is making me scream into my pillow and how utterly ridiculous and frustrating your posts make me get. There's seriously no point in arguing this, because it will never lead to any where, and will only succeed in pissing me off further. At this point, it really feels like I'm arguing with Alienhulk again, because of how much these posts are just going in circles. I'm made my point clear, guess I'll just add you to my ignore list again and just going to drop it before things get worse.

[RedZillaKing]

Except my position never changed.

A brief history of this latest sidetracked garbage.

1. You read half of my sentence which "pissed you off" so much that you didn't bother with the other half.

2. I explained what happened and where the misconception came from, and yet you still tried to somehow make it my problem that you can't read an entire post/understand the context.

3. You get annoyed that I provided a video showing what I was talking about. Somehow this comes across as talking down to you.

4. You argue nonexistent arguments about things we already agree about. We're on the same page, yet you still want to argue.

5. Your position goes from Goji having doing all the work to Mothra and the cliff doing all the work. Completely ignoring Rodan's contributions (the only thing we actually disagreed on up to this point).

6. More inane side arguments are made about Ghidorah not being driven away primarily by the monsters. I throw my hands up in complete disbelief.

7. Somehow I argued in circles. No. You invented stuff that no one believes about shit that was apparent about the film. You literally argued about stuff I hadn't even mentioned and tried to blame me for your inability to stay on track.

My argument: Rodan would give Ghidorah a good fight but Kumonga just doesn't deliver the goods as a tag team partner. Ghidorah wins. Goodbye to the unnecessary side arguments and inventions.

You know what? I'd be honored to be a part of your ignore list. Where do I sign up?

[CatfaceFourtoes]

Come on, I know King Ghidorah is a tank, but Kumonga must have some things going for it from Son of Godzilla, like the speed with which it's web took Kamakirus out of the air after it took off.
I also remember the scientists speaking of the monster's tenacity, of how it was willing to wait for as long as it took for the humans to come out and ambush them.
Aside from that, all that awesome durability attributed to Rodan is kind of diminished when compared to King Ghidorah's ability to exist in the vacuum of space, unless we are to take the translation of the faeries seriously in GTTHM where Rodan says that if the world is destroyed it would simply fly away. One of the ways that KG was defeated was by being encased in webbing and rendered unable to defend itself. I think that Kumonga's webbing and legs could keep Ghidorah's three heads busy, and if Rodan scores a knockdown, King Ghidorah could very well be pinned by kumonga and entombed in webs.

[PopInPicsPresents]

After watching GTTHM, MZ and SOG I've come to a conclusion. Let's just take a step back and examine the kaiju feats.

Kumunga took 7 Atomic Rays. The 6th one put it down, the 7th and 8th (I guess I'll could Minilla's as a separate ray) set the giant spider on fire. Apparently it survived the ordeal and fought alongside Godzilla and the Monster Island Crew in 1999. Kumunga effortlessly tackled Godzilla to the ground, and showed intelligence when playing dead after the 5th Atomic Ray. It also has great aim with its stinger and can wrap up prey in seconds with its webbing.

Rodan was able to spar with Godzilla to a stand still. Effortlessly carrying Godzilla in his talons and dropping him on an electrical tower. He tackled Ghidorah out of the sky and on the ground (in Astro Monsters). He also took several Gravity Beams like they were nothing unlike Godzilla who recoiled in pain. Also pretty smart.

Now, Ghidorah. Ghidorah doesn't like to take a beating and will retreat after a mild beating unless being controlled. Also he spams his Gravity Beams, although more often then not they miss outright. And here's the kicker, the one flaw that seals his fate, when getting shot with webbing Ghidorah becomes completely helpless. When Mothra began spraying the webbing at Ghidorah all it could do was flail helplessly until Godzilla threw it down the mountain.

Ghidorah will undergo a similar defeat here. Kumunga likes to spam its webbing and that will deter Ghidorah. It also has a fairly short attention span going for whatever target attacks it. Ghidorah will become ensnared in Kumunga's webbing and flail helplessly like it did in GTTHM. Rodan will act as a distraction while Kumunga sprays its webbing. If it comes down to it Kumunga will go in for melee. It is also very possible for the giant spider to play dead and surprise the space demon.

[miguelnuva]

After watching GTTHM, MZ and SOG I've come to a conclusion. Let's just take a step back and examine the kaiju feats.

Kumunga took 7 Atomic Rays. The 6th one put it down, the 7th and 8th (I guess I'll could Minilla's as a separate ray) set the giant spider on fire. Apparently it survived the ordeal and fought alongside Godzilla and the Monster Island Crew in 1999. Kumunga effortlessly tackled Godzilla to the ground, and showed intelligence when playing dead after the 5th Atomic Ray. It also has great aim with its stinger and can wrap up prey in seconds with its webbing.

Rodan was able to spar with Godzilla to a stand still. Effortlessly carrying Godzilla in his talons and dropping him on an electrical tower. He tackled Ghidorah out of the sky and on the ground (in Astro Monsters). He also took several Gravity Beams like they were nothing unlike Godzilla who recoiled in pain. Also pretty smart.

Now, Ghidorah. Ghidorah doesn't like to take a beating and will retreat after a mild beating unless being controlled. Also he spams his Gravity Beams, although more often then not they miss outright. And here's the kicker, the one flaw that seals his fate, when getting shot with webbing Ghidorah becomes completely helpless. When Mothra began spraying the webbing at Ghidorah all it could do was flail helplessly until Godzilla threw it down the mountain.

Ghidorah will undergo a similar defeat here. Kumunga likes to spam its webbing and that will deter Ghidorah. It also has a fairly short attention span going for whatever target attacks it. Ghidorah will become ensnared in Kumunga's webbing and flail helplessly like it did in GTTHM. Rodan will act as a distraction while Kumunga sprays its webbing. If it comes down to it Kumunga will go in for melee. It is also very possible for the giant spider to play dead and surprise the space demon.

On top of this Kumonga was weak against the atomic ray and took 4 shots and still survived to fight in DAM, I'd say his durable enough.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Apparently it survived the ordeal and fought alongside Godzilla and the Monster Island Crew in 1999.

...No, it died at the end of SoG. Kumonga isn't the only monster magically resurrected for DAM. Just look at Baragon, Manda, Anguirus, Gorosaurus and Varan. They all died at in their original appearances, yet are there in DAM. I think it's safe to assume that these are either entirely different creatures, or Toho magically revived them just to put them in the film.

Seriously, if being set on fire didn't kill Kumonga, then being buried in god knows how much snow would have done the job.

Kumunga effortlessly tackled Godzilla to the ground

...So what? It's not like that'll help out here at all. King Ghidorah weighs way more than Godzilla, so I highly doubt that tackling King Ghidorah would do anything. On top of that, tackling King Ghidorah is just an incredibly stupid idea unless you have regeneration of some kind. Kumonga is screwed if it decides to tackle King Ghidorah.

It also has great aim with its stinger and can wrap up prey in seconds with its webbing.

The stinger only comes into play when it's target is incredibly close, which will not happen in this fight. As for the webbing being able to "wrap up prey in seconds"...um...no. Stupid and small creatures, sure. But giant-ass space dragons that can shot three gravity bolts at once, hell no. It would take a long time for Kumonga's webs to start slowing down King Ghidorah.

Also he spams his Gravity Beams, although more often then not they miss outright.

King Ghidorah almost always hits his target in GTTHM, IotAM and DAM. King Ghidorah just fires wildly when he doesn't have any particular target.

And here's the kicker, the one flaw that seals his fate, when getting shot with webbing Ghidorah becomes completely helpless. When Mothra began spraying the webbing at Ghidorah all it could do was flail helplessly until Godzilla threw it down the mountain.

...You do realize that the only reason Ghidorah was helpless, was because Godzilla was holding Ghidorah back, and Mothra was hidden by Rodan? As in, he was in a spot where he couldn't stop the source of the webbing, because it was hidden from him and there was another monster holding him by his tails.

Too bad that won't be the case here. There is nothing in this fight that can hold Ghidorah back like Godzilla did in GTTHM, and there's no way that Kumonga can be hidden from Ghidorah. Kumonga is pretty damn big (at least in width), so that thing ain't hiding.

Kumunga likes to spam its webbing and that will deter Ghidorah.

The only thing that Kumgona's webbing will do is piss off Ghidorah, and cause a rain of Gravity Bolts the likes of which he has never seen.

Ghidorah will become ensnared in Kumunga's webbing and flail helplessly like it did in GTTHM.

...That would only happen if Ghidorah would just stood there like an idiot and let Kumonga wrap him up in webs. Ghidorah's going to fight back, and Kumonga will be lucky if he gets even a very thin layer of web on Ghidorah.

Also, you're given Kumonga way too much credit in this, like he'll have Ghidorah all wrapped up in a minute. Kumonga's webs are not that fast!

Rodan will act as a distraction while Kumunga sprays its webbing.

...Rodan may be able to stale Ghidorah for a little bit, but not so much to the point where Ghidorah is going to just forget about all the webs being fired at him, just to attack Rodan. Once the webbing starts to hit, Ghidorah's going to forget all about Rodan and destroy the source of the webbing.

If it comes down to it Kumunga will go in for melee. It is also very possible for the giant spider to play dead and surprise the space demon.

...If Kumonga goes for melee, it's going to be destroyed before it even has a chance to get close to Ghidorah.

[miguelnuva]

Apparently it survived the ordeal and fought alongside Godzilla and the Monster Island Crew in 1999.

...No, it died at the end of SoG. Kumonga isn't the only monster magically resurrected for DAM. Just look at Baragon, Manda, Anguirus, Gorosaurus and Varan. They all died at in their original appearances, yet are there in DAM. I think it's safe to assume that these are either entirely different creatures, or Toho magically revived them just to put them in the film.

Except we have a confirmed new

Angurius
Baragon, Gorosaursus and Varan

Kumonga and Manda are the originals.

[Captain Aktion]

^Confirmed...? I'm not necessarily doubting you, but confirmed where?

[miguelnuva]

^Confirmed...? I'm not necessarily doubting you, but confirmed where?

From the official Bio on the tohokingdom main website.

And looks like Gorosaurus survived and just grew to match Godzilla in height.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Apparently it survived the ordeal and fought alongside Godzilla and the Monster Island Crew in 1999.

...No, it died at the end of SoG. Kumonga isn't the only monster magically resurrected for DAM. Just look at Baragon, Manda, Anguirus, Gorosaurus and Varan. They all died at in their original appearances, yet are there in DAM. I think it's safe to assume that these are either entirely different creatures, or Toho magically revived them just to put them in the film.

Except we have a confirmed new

Angurius
Baragon, Gorosaursus and Varan

Kumonga and Manda are the originals.

I gotta agree with CG, when and where were these confirmed? Because I haven't heard of them.

Also, there is no freakin' way that the Manda in Atragon is the same Manda in DAM. Because the one in Atragon is kinda...well...dead. Same with Kumonga. I don't care what the TK Bios say, because at this point, they're contradicting what happened in the films. Someone is wrong here: The bios or the movies. I'm going with the bios.