Spacegodzilla vs Super Star Destroyer

[Gyaos]

Is this sereously going to turn out to be another "omg comics are so overpowered!!1!1!!" thread? Also not all comic characters are insanely powerful. The SSDs have accomplished similar feats in novels if I recall.

[GojiFan]

Is this sereously going to turn out to be another "omg comics are so overpowered!!1!1!!" thread? Also not all comic characters are insanely powerful. The SSDs have accomplished similar feats in novels if I recall.

Yes they have. Star Destroyers didn't get their name because someone thought it sounded cool. They got it because they are good at skreeonk shit up.

[RedZillaKing]

There's a few things here that are SO wrong. First of all, wtf? Comics and novels and video games are NOT canon. What's "canon" in Star Wars is narrowed down to the films and Clone Wars. That's it. Please don't treat the convoluted to shit EU as canonical. It's official fanfiction, nothing more. And it often contradicts the films, as silly as that is. Hey did you know that the second Death Star was just a vessel for IG88?

Second of all, if SpaceGodzilla is ON the SSD, how are all of its turbolasers going to be trained on him? That would be like shooting yourself in the face to swat a fly. It would be a (relative) few turbolasers in his vicinity, and they would likely be effected by his pulse, anyway. A collision with a medium sized asteroid destroyed the bridge of a Star Destroyer. SpaceGodzilla's tail could penetrate the bridge/hull no problem.

As for the turbolasers, they aren't all that either. ATATs are equipped with turbolasers, and they hit more like grenades than an incredible death beam. All they did was throw troops around and kick up snow. Moguera's laser cannon that comes out of his chest is extremely powerful, and SpaceGodzilla shrugged that off. Hell, look at Episode II... Slave I is equipped with heavy laser cannons as its primary weapon and they failed to vaporize Obi Wan.... Who was caught in the blast! I know those aren't turbolasers, but come on!

And Gyaos, I said that he could destroy sections of the SSD. Not move the whole thing with his gravity tornadoes. That's just silly. Way to imagine that I overestimated a kaiju.

I swear you people have this thing mixed up with the Death Star itself.

[Gyaos]

Wait a minute, you act as if the Gravity Tornado is capable of inflicting physical damage apon contact. It did no such thing to Godzilla other than make him glow bright yellow. There was no indication that there was any kind of damage being delt. Being lifted into the air telepathically doesnt crush, maim or damage you at all.

[RedZillaKing]

I didn't act like that at all. I'm merely stating that I believe it could peel sections off the ship's hull. Not inflict damage on contact. Never said that. It's TK, that's all.

[GojiFan]

There's a few things here that are SO wrong. First of all, wtf? Comics and novels and video games are NOT canon. What's "canon" in Star Wars is narrowed down to the films and Clone Wars. That's it. Please don't treat the convoluted to shit EU as canonical. It's official fanfiction, nothing more. And it often contradicts the films, as silly as that is. Hey did you know that the second Death Star was just a vessel for IG88?

Have a fun time reading this then. http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/index.html

That uses what happens in the movie to put into terms how powerful the HEAVY turbolasers are (aka not the ones mounted on an AT-AT). I can sum up the article for anyone who doesn't feel like reading it though. The heavy turbolasers on a Star Destroyer were capable of vaporizing asteroids the size of the Millennium Falcon in a single4 shot. The amount of energy it takes to do that is insane. One was even bigger than the Millennium Falcon itself.

You can say that the novels and comics don't count, but the movies (especially the later ones) took quite a lot of ideas from those novels and comics. The idea of Anakin's scar in Episode III came from an EU novel. Aayla Secura was created in an EU novel. Kashyyk was created in the EU. Coruscant's name came from EU. The entire history leading up to the Star Wars movies were created in the EU. The battle for Kamino (which happens in the tv series), TOOK PLACE IN EU FIRST. See a pattern here? Is some of it crappy and inconsistent? Oh yeah. But it is extremely consistent that Star Destroyer's are capable of glassing planets through bombardment. Just because they never did it in George's movies doesn't mean they aren't capable of it.

Second of all, if SpaceGodzilla is ON the SSD, how are all of its turbolasers going to be trained on him? That would be like shooting yourself in the face to swat a fly. It would be a (relative) few turbolasers in his vicinity, and they would likely be effected by his pulse, anyway. A collision with a medium sized asteroid destroyed the bridge of a Star Destroyer. SpaceGodzilla's tail could penetrate the bridge/hull no problem.

For one, because the turbolasers are mounted all over the hull of the ship. Have you not seen any of the Star Wars movies? Capitol ships are absolutely covered in them from front to back.

As for the EMP part, yes the ion cannon is different. You see, it took several shots from a planetary defense turret shooting concentrated blasts of energy to disable a regular sized star destroyer. A regular emp wave won't work because it simply isn't strong enough. Almost all capitol ships in any era of Star Wars have ion cannons mounted on them... but they never shut down other ships do they? You want to know why? Because they aren't strong enough to get through the energy shield. The defense turret worked because it was an incredibly powerful turret that blasted through the energy shield using force before frying the circuitry. General Grevious' flag ship was the only capitol ship (that I am aware of) to ever have an ion cannon capable of affecting other capitol ships at the same level that the defense turret did.

As for the turbolasers, they aren't all that either. ATATs are equipped with turbolasers, and they hit more like grenades than an incredible death beam. All they did was throw troops around and kick up snow. Moguera's laser cannon that comes out of his chest is extremely powerful, and SpaceGodzilla shrugged that off. Hell, look at Episode II... Slave I is equipped with heavy laser cannons as its primary weapon and they failed to vaporize Obi Wan.... Who was caught in the blast! I know those aren't turbolasers, but come on!

First of all, the AT-AT's main weapon aren't turbolasers. It's main weapon are heavy laser cannons. The AT-AT does have some light turbolasers, but that wasn't until post-Endor. A SSD is covered in hundreds, or in the case of the Executor thousands, of heavy turbolasers. This is like the 5th time I have said that there is a difference between them.

[Kaiju-King42]

Remember that this battle takes place in an asteroid field. How could this affect the battle? Could SG use the asteroids as cover from turbo lasers? Could he use telikinisis to throw asteroids into the SSD's path? Could the SSD simply vaporize the incoming asteroids? And will Obama win the next election?

[Inferno Rodan]

SG is gonna have lots of fun growing crystals out of the ship and draining its power. 'Cause that's all he really has to do to win.

[Gyaos]

Remember that this battle takes place in an asteroid field. How could this affect the battle? Could SG use the asteroids as cover from turbo lasers? Could he use telikinisis to throw asteroids into the SSD's path? Could the SSD simply vaporize the incoming asteroids? And will Obama win the next election?

When has Spacegodzilla done ANY of that in any of his battles?

SG is gonna have lots of fun growing crystals out of the ship and draining its power. 'Cause that's all he really has to do to win.

Too bad hes going to be eradicated by the sheer power of the combined Turbolaser blasts.

[Inferno Rodan]

Too bad hes going to be eradicated by the sheer power of the combined Turbolaser blasts.

Give me some evidence that such would happen. 'Cause I'm doubtful, considering it could barely defend itself from a few small fighter ships.

[Gyaos]

Turbolasers, for one. As Gojifan mentioned several times in his post (and from prior knowlege), a Turbolaser is an utterly devastating energy weapon. Heavy Turbolasers, the variety equipped to vessles such as this, are capable of destroying entire cities and reducing landscapes into molten rock.

I literally just finished watching Godzilla vs Spacegodzilla 5 minutes ago and nothing Spacegodzilla was hit with comes even close to the power of a Turbolaser blast. Keep in mind that there are probably hundreds to thousands of Turbolaser turrets on one Super Star destroyer alone.

Yes I'd imagine small, nimble fighter craft would be hard to hit. That's the idea behind them in the first place. Spacegodzilla is a much bigger target meaning the lasers wont have any trouble hitting him, especially if he lands on the ship where it would be impossible to miss.

[GojiFan]

Because SG never tries to dodge attacks against him (even when he is flying). SG is also not nearly as nimble and much larger than the fighter's that did dodge the fire. Keep in mind that the Rebel's had the absolute best pilots in the galaxy flying for them, so it is no simple feat for someone in a similar situation to dodge the turbolaser blasts.

Also, show me some evidence that SG can even survive more than a few seconds into the match (and that is generous). Nothing in the Toho world packs the same kind of firepower as a single blast from a turbolaser. And you expect SG to pull off this feat when he has to survive blasts from thousands of them?

As I said earlier, SG stands literally no chance. If one hit from a turbolaser doesn't kill him, it will severely cripple him.

[Inferno Rodan]

Because SG never tries to dodge attacks against him (even when he is flying). SG is also not nearly as nimble and much larger than the fighter's that did dodge the fire. Keep in mind that the Rebel's had the absolute best pilots in the galaxy flying for them, so it is no simple feat for someone in a similar situation to dodge the turbolaser blasts.

That's the funny thing about SG: his cystals absorb energy. In his Flying Form, he's pretty much a ball of crystals. Also keep in mind he can launch his crystal-forming energy ball-things from a great distance. Couple of those hitting the SSD would cause major power issues for the ship and probably shut down large sections of it entirely.

Also, show me some evidence that SG can even survive more than a few seconds into the match (and that is generous). Nothing in the Toho world packs the same kind of firepower as a single blast from a turbolaser. And you expect SG to pull off this feat when he has to survive blasts from thousands of them?

Show me some evidence that the turbolasers can be directed onto a single, moving target the size of Spacegodzilla, and do so with any degree of accuracy. And besides, isn't nearly all of that firepower on the underside of the ship? You know, for bombarding ground targets?

[Kaiju-King42]

In Gojifan's defence, there are quite a few turbo lasers on the sides and top of the ship as well.

In IR's defence, I spoke with my complete SW nut of a friend today and showed him this thread, and he thinks that the turbo lasers are being portrayed a bit overpowered than what they actually are. And keep in mind that my friend is also a "science guy", so he tends to know what he's talking about. Also, after school, I spent some time looking up SSD's and turbo lasers and found nothing that showed them to be more powerful than any Toho weapon.

Now I'm not choosing sides or anything just yet. Just giving my share of the debate.

[GojiFan]

That's the funny thing about SG: his cystals absorb energy. In his Flying Form, he's pretty much a ball of crystals. Also keep in mind he can launch his crystal-forming energy ball-things from a great distance. Couple of those hitting the SSD would cause major power issues for the ship and probably shut down large sections of it entirely.

They will melt before they absorb the turbolaser's blast. Check the link I posted earlier. A single blast was capable of vaporizing asteroids half SG's size. Not blow them up, but vaporize. On the conservative side, one blast from them was putting out around 30 terrajoules worth of energy. That is half the energy released from the Hiroshima bomb focused into a beam. SG might be able to take one, but more than that and he is going to be severely crippled or just plain dead.

And you are forgetting something IR. The capital ships all have energy shields that are more than capable of taking anything SG throws at it and are completely capable of negating the tiny emp waves that SG puts out. As I said earlier, anything short of a planetary defense cannon (like on Hoth) or the huge cannon on Grevious' ship will not get past the shields of a SSD and short the electronics of the ship.

Show me some evidence that the turbolasers can be directed onto a single, moving target the size of Spacegodzilla, and do so with any degree of accuracy. And besides, isn't nearly all of that firepower on the underside of the ship? You know, for bombarding ground targets?

First, no. The turbolasers are all over the ship. They are used for both bombarding planets and attacking other capital ships during combat (which can be above, to the side, in front, behind, etc). When bombarding planets they merely align themselves tangent to the surface of the planet and use the turrets on the respective side.

As for the other part, SG has zero evidence of any sort of mobility when flying. The star fighters in Star Wars are the hundreds of times more nimble than SG is, and much smaller targets to boot. But at 2:04 in this video (ignore the crappy remix) you see a Naboo star fighter get destroyed from one blast of a banking clan ship. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Eaua9Lz ... re=related

But as I mentioned earlier, that is largely irrelevant considering that star fighters are both smaller and much more nimble than SG; they actually dodge fire coming at them.

In IR's defence, I spoke with my complete SW nut of a friend today and showed him this thread, and he thinks that the turbo lasers are being portrayed a bit overpowered than what they actually are. And keep in mind that my friend is also a "science guy", so he tends to know what he's talking about. Also, after school, I spent some time looking up SSD's and turbo lasers and found nothing that showed them to be more powerful than any Toho weapon.

Well lucky for you, I am both a Star Wars nut and a "science guy". My two years in mechanical engineering at Purdue University is proof of that.

If you are doubtful of their strength, look at the link I posted earlier. No Toho attack has ever come close to completely vaporizing a chunk of rock and iron the size of Showa Godzilla. The closest thing I can think of would be Gamera's mana beam (except the turbolasers are probably far hotter). So imagine thousands of little Heisei Gameras sprinkled across the ship shooting mana beam after mana beam in quick succession. Whether his crystals can absorb the energy is irrelevant because the rest of his body will be completely destroyed and the crystals may just go with it.

[Inferno Rodan]

They will melt before they absorb the turbolaser's blast. Check the link I posted earlier. A single blast was capable of vaporizing asteroids half SG's size. Not blow them up, but vaporize. On the conservative side, one blast from them was putting out around 30 terrajoules worth of energy. That is half the energy released from the Hiroshima bomb focused into a beam. SG might be able to take one, but more than that and he is going to be severely crippled or just plain dead.

Yeah, pardon me if I don't take those numbers very seriously. You can throw around numbers all you want, but they really don't mean much with sci-fi weapons unless they actually display that kind of destructive power.

And you are forgetting something IR. The capital ships all have energy shields that are more than capable of taking anything SG throws at it and are completely capable of negating the tiny emp waves that SG puts out. As I said earlier, anything short of a planetary defense cannon (like on Hoth) or the huge cannon on Grevious' ship will not get past the shields of a SSD and short the electronics of the ship.

Yeah, fat lotta good those shields did when the fighters blew up the Executor's shield generator. Unless that means the shield generators aren't covered by the shields which they generate, which would just be beyond retarded.

As for the other part, SG has zero evidence of any sort of mobility when flying. The star fighters in Star Wars are the hundreds of times more nimble than SG is, and much smaller targets to boot. But at 2:04 in this video (ignore the crappy remix) you see a Naboo star fighter get destroyed from one blast of a banking clan ship. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Eaua9Lz ... re=related

I never said anything about SG dodging. I was questioning the ability of the SSD to actually focus its firepower on him, since I've never seen them do anything of the sort even against opposing warships that are much larger than he is. Their strategy against smaller fighters is generally to just fill space with laser fire and pray they hit.

Also, funny you should use that clip. The turbolasers can completely vaporize a 50-meter chunk of solid rock and iron, and yet merely blow up a frail little fighter craft no more effectively than what a standard missile would accomplish?

[RedZillaKing]

But it is extremely consistent that Star Destroyer's are capable of glassing planets through bombardment. Just because they never did it in George's movies doesn't mean they aren't capable of it.

Just because they do things in glorified fan fiction doesn't mean they are actually capable of them canonically.

For one, because the turbolasers are mounted all over the hull of the ship. Have you not seen any of the Star Wars movies? Capitol ships are absolutely covered in them from front to back.

And this answers my question how? I've seen plenty every Star Wars film and not once do I recall the Executor efficiently battling enemies much smaller than themselves. In the scenario you describe (the one with the thousands of turbolasers all trained on SG and simultaneously blasting him) the ship would cause heavy damage to itself. Which was my whole point.

As for the EMP part, yes the ion cannon is different. You see, it took several shots from a planetary defense turret shooting concentrated blasts of energy to disable a regular sized star destroyer. A regular emp wave won't work because it simply isn't strong enough. Almost all capitol ships in any era of Star Wars have ion cannons mounted on them... but they never shut down other ships do they? You want to know why? Because they aren't strong enough to get through the energy shield. The defense turret worked because it was an incredibly powerful turret that blasted through the energy shield using force before frying the circuitry. General Grevious' flag ship was the only capitol ship (that I am aware of) to ever have an ion cannon capable of affecting other capitol ships at the same level that the defense turret did.

The laser cannons themselves cannot be fully shielded in order to actually fire the beam. That would f*** all internal logic automatically. The emp wave will directly effect the lasers themselves which is what I said.

[GojiFan]

Yeah, pardon me if I don't take those numbers very seriously. You can throw around numbers all you want, but they really don't mean much with sci-fi weapons unless they actually display that kind of destructive power.

So someone uses occurrences in the movie of a turbolaser vaporizing asteroids 20-60 meters in diameter and then using math and science to figure out how much energy it would take to do so means "not displaying that kind of power"? Pardon me if you are ignoring evidence here.

Yeah, fat lotta good those shields did when the fighters blew up the Executor's shield generator. Unless that means the shield generators aren't covered by the shields which they generate, which would just be beyond retarded.

Does SG have an entire fleet of capital ships as well as thousands of star fighters with him attacking the Executor to knock down the shields? Does SG have the intelligence and knowledge to realize what part of the ship is generating the shield? Both of those are a big fat no.

I never said anything about SG dodging. I was questioning the ability of the SSD to actually focus its firepower on him, since I've never seen them do anything of the sort even against opposing warships that are much larger than he is. Their strategy against smaller fighters is generally to just fill space with laser fire and pray they hit.

... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmYwX7r9ATo

Not only do you see capital ships focusing targets in this video, but you see droids being picked off by laser fire from capital ships. And yeah, of course they fill the air with laser fire. Armies in today's day and age do that with flak cannons and gatling fire too.

Also, funny you should use that clip. The turbolasers can completely vaporize a 50-meter chunk of solid rock and iron, and yet merely blow up a frail little fighter craft no more effectively than what a standard missile would accomplish?

Maybe because said fighter craft are made with far more durable materials than the asteroid is composed of and have energy shields of their own? Trying to compare the destruction of an asteroid with that of a highly advanced space fighter isn't a good argument on your part.

Just because they do things in glorified fan fiction doesn't mean they are actually capable of them canonically.

Funny you mention it as glorified fan fiction, since not only has George Lucas wrote for EU publications but an entire branch of Lucas' company is devoted to establishing novels and comics written in the EU as canon. And you act like contradiction makes them non-canon. Lucas has contradicted what is in his own movies several times.

And this answers my question how? I've seen plenty every Star Wars film and not once do I recall the Executor efficiently battling enemies much smaller than themselves. In the scenario you describe (the one with the thousands of turbolasers all trained on SG and simultaneously blasting him) the ship would cause heavy damage to itself. Which was my whole point.

Thousands of turbolasers would be trained on him before he ever gets close. You seem to think that SG is some super invincible monster who is just going to wander on over the the Executor and plop down on it without a problem. He will die far before then as he is a much bigger, slower, and less maneuverable target than any of the star fighters in Star Wars.

The laser cannons themselves cannot be fully shielded in order to actually fire the beam. That would f*** all internal logic automatically. The emp wave will directly effect the lasers themselves which is what I said.

And I have said that ion cannons are standard weapons on capital ships in Star Wars and they fail to do any sort of short circuiting until the energy shields have been knocked down. Whether you think that logic makes sense or not doesn't really matter, because in the SW universe that is what happens consistently.

[Gyaos]

The laser cannons themselves cannot be fully shielded in order to actually fire the beam. That would f*** all internal logic automatically. The emp wave will directly effect the lasers themselves which is what I said.

Im sorry, but why do people think Spacegodzila's EMP will work on every single other peice of techology out there, no matter how resistant or advance simply because it shut down MOGUERA and a couple of computers.

Just because they do things in glorified fan fiction doesn't mean they are actually capable of them canonically.

How is EU glorified fan fiction??

efficiently battling enemies much smaller than themselves

I reiterate, Starfighters are fast and nimble for a reason. They're designed so that they can speed around in space and not get hit. Spacegodzilla does not have that luxury.

In the scenario you describe (the one with the thousands of turbolasers all trained on SG and simultaneously blasting him) the ship would cause heavy damage to itself. Which was my whole point.

How, exactly, is the ship going to damage itself by shooting at Spacegodzilla. It's not like they're aiming at the ground on purpose. It's kinda hard to miss the giant freaking monster on the ship.

[Inferno Rodan]

So someone uses occurrences in the movie of a turbolaser vaporizing asteroids 20-60 meters in diameter and then using math and science to figure out how much energy it would take to do so means "not displaying that kind of power"? Pardon me if you are ignoring evidence here.

When said feat is blatantly contradicted, I'm not ignoring squat.

Does SG have an entire fleet of capital ships as well as thousands of star fighters with him attacking the Executor to knock down the shields? Does SG have the intelligence and knowledge to realize what part of the ship is generating the shield? Both of those are a big fat no.

None of that addresses my point, which was that the shield showed it was borderline useless.

... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmYwX7r9ATo

Not only do you see capital ships focusing targets in this video, but you see droids being picked off by laser fire from capital ships. And yeah, of course they fill the air with laser fire. Armies in today's day and age do that with flak cannons and gatling fire too.

Oh look, none of those are anywhere near as powerful as what you're making the lasers out to be.

And the only armies today that use that strategy are ones using outdated equipment. Iraq during the Gulf War is the last time I'm aware it was used, and it was pretty much useless.

Maybe because said fighter craft are made with far more durable materials than the asteroid is composed of and have energy shields of their own? Trying to compare the destruction of an asteroid with that of a highly advanced space fighter isn't a good argument on your part.

So ships that get damaged in crash landings are more durable than massive chunks of solid rock and metal? Yeah, no.

Im sorry, but why do people think Spacegodzila's EMP will work on every single other peice of techology out there, no matter how resistant or advance simply because it shut down MOGUERA and a couple of computers.

Because MOGUERA was designed to fly in space, and was thus shielded from electromagnetism in the first place. The fact that SG's EMP STILL fried him is a testament to its power. It fried one thing that was shielded for space travel. Give some evidence that it couldn't fry others.