Christopher Nolan

For the discussion of movies and TV shows not distributed by Toho.

Your opinion on Christopher Nolan

A really great director
18
56%
The best director in the world today
3
9%
He's good but vastly overrated
10
31%
Better idea man than director
0
No votes
His films are okay but it's not my cup of tea
1
3%
 
Total votes : 32

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Tue May 22, 2012 8:04 am

Legionmaster wrote:
GotengoXGodzilla wrote:I'm talking about very general and broad terms, like Batman doing whatever it takes to stop the Joker (incredibly believable).

But doesn't kill him when he has the chance...


Because that's part of Batman's character: he refuses to kill. Never, even as a last resort, will Batman kill someone.

So you're talking about broad character motivations? How is The Dark Knight different than Iron Man or the first two Spider-man films in that sense? Aren't their character motivations just as believable as that of Bruce Wayne's?


I guess they aren't different. In that respect, Iron Man and the first two Spider-man films are realistic as well. Another reason why I really enjoy Iron Man.
User avatar
GotengoXGodzilla
G-Force Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2791
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:16 pm

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby Gorosaurus Rex » Tue May 22, 2012 8:09 am

So in that respect, one can't hold The Dark Knight on a pedestal for being a more realistic superhero film because it's logic and character motivation are just as realistic as some other staples of the genre.

It's still an impressive piece of work and I still enjoy it every time I watch it, but the realism stance doesn't seem like a valid point in lauding it.
SuperSaiyan4Godzilla wrote:And Godzilla isn't Pixar. The latter deals with children. The former deals with adults who behave like children.
User avatar
Gorosaurus Rex
G-Force Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2883
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:53 pm
Location: The Savage Land

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby Legionmaster » Tue May 22, 2012 8:19 am

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:Because that's part of Batman's character: he refuses to kill. Never, even as a last resort, will Batman kill someone.

And thus, he doesn't do whatever it takes to stop the Joker. Congrats on your failed broad character analysis.
bleep bloop
User avatar
Legionmaster
EDF Soldier
 
Posts: 4148
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:33 pm
Location: Skyloft, seducing Peatrice

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Tue May 22, 2012 8:26 am

I guess on top of having realistic character motivation and character actions, I do believe that someone out there would dress up like a bat, become a vigilante to fight crime, and that there would be someone out there, like the Joker, trying just to prove a point to him. I would say that's more realistic than someone who builds a suit of armor that can fly and shot energy beams, which he uses (at least in the film) to stop other people from take advantage of his weapons and technology, or someone who is in a lab accident and can now walk on walls, shot webs out of his hands and has enhanced strength and agility.

All of those films have realistic character motivations and character actions, but Batman in general is just a more realistic super hero than Iron Man and Spider-Man. That's why I believe The Dark Knight is slightly more realistic.

And thus, he doesn't do whatever it takes to stop the Joker. Congrats on your failed broad character analysis.


Alright, if you're going to nitpick my argument, then let me reword what I said: Batman will do whatever it takes to stop the Joker, other than killing him, because that goes against his one rule.

Batman will not kill somebody, that was a large part of his character development in Batman Begins. It's part of who Batman/Bruce Wayne is. Thus, it's perfectly logical in The Dark Knight that Batman would do whatever it takes to stop the Joker, besides killing him.
User avatar
GotengoXGodzilla
G-Force Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2791
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:16 pm

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby wataru » Tue May 22, 2012 8:28 am

Im pretty sure some ninjas were killed in that explosion in BB that Bruce Wayne caused. So he did actually kill people.

Batman is the ultimate hypocrite. He fights fear with fear and when he doesnt get his way, he acts like a bitch and makes something like Brother Eye.
Wataru
TK's Resident Comic Book God & Raggedy Ann Enthusiast.
Sandy Frank dubs. All others are fail.

"Look it [a bear] is scratching it's ass against a pine tree. How majestic."
User avatar
wataru
Seatopian Demigod
 
Posts: 16781
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:25 pm
Location: Casselberry, FL 32707

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby Legionmaster » Tue May 22, 2012 8:38 am

GotengoXGodzilla wrote:I guess on top of having realistic character motivation and character actions, I do believe that someone out there would dress up like a bat, become a vigilante to fight crime, and that there would be someone out there, like the Joker, trying just to prove a point to him.

That's really silly if you would believe that. Because there's a difference between dressing up like a bat and doing what Batman does.

I would say that's more realistic than someone who builds a suit of armor that can fly and shot energy beams,

Like Batman does!

or someone who is in a lab accident and can now walk on walls, shot webs out of his hands and has enhanced strength and agility.

I think you're underestimating the fiction part of science-fiction.

Also:
shot webs

Image

All of those films have realistic character motivations and character actions, but Batman in general is just a more realistic super hero than Iron Man and Spider-Man. That's why I believe The Dark Knight is slightly more realistic.

I still quote the Dent having no skin thing. Because that's just as implausable as anything else. You know, along with everything else about Batman himself, because it's all just as implausable as everything else that's superhero related.

Alright, if you're going to nitpick my argument, then let me reword what I said: Batman will do whatever it takes to stop the Joker, other than killing him, because that goes against his one rule.

Batman will not kill somebody, that was a large part of his character development in Batman Begins. It's part of who Batman/Bruce Wayne is. Thus, it's perfectly logical in The Dark Knight that Batman would do whatever it takes to stop the Joker, besides killing him.

I'm not nitpicking. I'm making sure you understand what you are saying and clarify your argument correctly. This is why, when making a convincing argument, you don't speak in broad generalities. You ignored the cardinal weakness of the hero: (s)he can only function within his or her own code of ethics, which is more restrictive than the villains. This trope has existed in storytelling for centuries.
bleep bloop
User avatar
Legionmaster
EDF Soldier
 
Posts: 4148
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:33 pm
Location: Skyloft, seducing Peatrice

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby GotengoXGodzilla » Tue May 22, 2012 8:52 am

wataru wrote:Im pretty sure some ninjas were killed in that explosion in BB that Bruce Wayne caused. So he did actually kill people.


Well, for one, they're ninjas. Super fast and agile. I think they'd be smart enough and fast enough to notice the building is come down and get out of there. So I doubt that act people were killed. Two, even if some ninjas were killed, Bruce probably believes that all of them did get out, and that he didn't kill anyone. So his conscience his clean in that respect. Three, it's been a while since I've watched the film, but didn't Bruce only start a small part of that, just so he could get out of a situation where he would have had to kill someone? In that case, he only contributed one chain in that large chain of events that led to the explosion of the building. Bruce was just trying to get out of a difficult situation by any means, which just happened to result in the building exploding. Again, I could be wrong, but that's what I remember.

That's really silly if you would believe that. Because there's a difference between dressing up like a bat and doing what Batman does.


Again, I'm speaking in broad terms. I didn't feel like going into an explanation about what Batman does. So I kept it simple.

Like Batman does!


Not really. As I recall, Batman glides in the Nolan films. He doesn't really fly.

I still quote the Dent having no skin thing. Because that's just as implausable as anything else. You know, along with everything else about Batman himself, because it's all just as implausable as everything else that's superhero related.


Not really talking about Dent having no skin. I was talking about how The Dark Knight has realistic and logical character motivation and character actions, while Batman is also a more realistic super hero than Iron Man and Spider-Man.

I think you're underestimating the fiction part of science-fiction.


Yes, I know that part of the Spider-Man films are science-fiction. What I'm saying though, is that because there's that element of science-fiction in the air, it makes the film seem unrealistic, which is the entire point of what I've been saying.

I'm not nitpicking. I'm making sure you understand what you are saying and clarify your argument correctly. This is why, when making a convincing argument, you don't speak in broad generalities. You ignored the cardinal weakness of the hero: (s)he can only function within his or her own code of ethics, which is more restrictive than the villains. This trope has existed in storytelling for centuries.


The reason I didn't bring up Batman's code of ethics, was because I didn't think I needed to. Everyone knows that Batman doesn't kill people, so I felt like I didn't need to state the obvious.

It's like telling people what 2 plus 2 is, or telling them why they need to breath air. It's something that I feel goes without saying.
User avatar
GotengoXGodzilla
G-Force Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2791
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:16 pm

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby Ethan » Tue May 22, 2012 12:05 pm

Nolan is a guy who makes good movies. Doesn't matter if they're dark, realistic or that "more focus on storytelling than effects" baloney. Inception is a fun film with great action scenes and a creepy Marion Cotillard. Also, the Hans Zimmer scores for his films are quite catchy.
Every film should have at least one animal attack.
User avatar
Ethan
Futurian
 
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:41 pm

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby Legionmaster » Tue May 22, 2012 12:10 pm

Ethan wrote:Also, the Hans Zimmer scores for his films are quite catchy.

Because Hans Zimmer is a god among men.
bleep bloop
User avatar
Legionmaster
EDF Soldier
 
Posts: 4148
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:33 pm
Location: Skyloft, seducing Peatrice

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby Ethan » Tue May 22, 2012 12:21 pm

Yeah, "Dream is Collapsing" could be the best theme from 2010. Ah screw it, Duffy's "Endlessly" is.
Speaking of Batman however, it should be noted that all Batman films have ridiculous things. Every single one of them.
Every film should have at least one animal attack.
User avatar
Ethan
Futurian
 
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:41 pm

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby Legionmaster » Tue May 22, 2012 12:26 pm

Ethan wrote:Speaking of Batman however, it should be noted that all Batman films have ridiculous things. Every single one of them.

Ridiculous things are pretty core to the superhero genre. Without them, we get things like...well, I can't even think of an instance where ridiculousness was purposefully toned down to a minimum in a superhero flick.
bleep bloop
User avatar
Legionmaster
EDF Soldier
 
Posts: 4148
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:33 pm
Location: Skyloft, seducing Peatrice

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby Ethan » Tue May 22, 2012 12:32 pm

Precisely, one can see various deegres of usage, but there isn't a Batman film that has no puns, impossible stunts and silly visuals.
Every film should have at least one animal attack.
User avatar
Ethan
Futurian
 
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:41 pm

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby Legionmaster » Tue May 22, 2012 12:35 pm

Ethan wrote:Precisely, one can see various deegres of usage, but there isn't a Batman film that has no puns, impossible stunts and silly visuals.

I can sympathize though. I mean, it is true: some days, you really can't just get rid of a bomb!
bleep bloop
User avatar
Legionmaster
EDF Soldier
 
Posts: 4148
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:33 pm
Location: Skyloft, seducing Peatrice

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby tymon » Tue May 22, 2012 1:21 pm

wataru wrote:Im pretty sure some ninjas were killed in that explosion in BB that Bruce Wayne caused. So he did actually kill people.


I've always hated that part - he doesn't want to take a murderer's life, so he blows up the entire building (with everyone inside) instead? Nolan's trilogy jumped the shark rather early.
TK's resident The Wire, Breaking Bad and Shameless (US) addict.

I have no use for these digital copy/UV things, so I'll give codes away whenever I buy a disc. I currently have a code for Jurassic Park, PM me if you want it!
User avatar
tymon
G-Force Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2330
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:56 pm
Location: MT

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby G1 Startruck Jonez » Tue May 22, 2012 1:44 pm

Legionmaster wrote:I can sympathize though. I mean, it is true: some days, you really can't just get rid of a bomb!


HA! Good one!
Geek Culture for the Geek in us all - https://www.facebook.com/G1and2
Become a fan.
User avatar
G1 Startruck Jonez
Interpol Agent
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:09 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby Tohosaurus » Tue May 22, 2012 5:32 pm

"Better idea man than director". That reminds me of M. Night Shyamalan.
東宝株式会社

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
User avatar
Tohosaurus
G-Force Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:35 pm

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby DaikaijuSokogeki! » Sat May 26, 2012 12:41 am

TheSecondComing wrote:Christopher Nolan turned Joker into a boring knife-collecting guy who blows up empty hospitals.

Overrated doesn't even begin to cover it.


And implants bombs into living people. And holds two boats full of people hostage. And slams a man's eye onto a pencil. And orchestrates several successful bank robberies with high death counts (including his own men). Saying he's boring completely undermines the viciousness this incarnation of the character has.

I enjoy Nolan's work no question. The only movie of his I would say I dislike is Following (uses its intentionally non-linear narrative clumsily), and The Prestige pulls some ridiculous twists near the end of the film. However, his Batman films are my favorites from the entire franchise. I never found his other films THAT hard to follow.

Inception was surprisingly easy to swallow, and I've only seen it once. I think with that film, people simply thought too hard on what may or may not be going on and just didn't pay attention to the actual film. It's extremely entertaining, and proof that CG looks more impressive when hand-in-hand with natural special effects.

Memento's just a great crime thriller with plenty of fantastic twists and sharp writing, and Insomnia excels thanks to its strong acting and wonderful camera work.
User avatar
DaikaijuSokogeki!
G-Grasper
 
Posts: 1094
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Norfolk. VA

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby wataru » Sat May 26, 2012 5:34 am

The odd thing about Nolan's Joker... his antics are more Two-Face then Joker.

Two ships - one with 'good' citizens, one with 'bad' people
Two bombs - one with 'duty' (Dent) and one with 'love' (Rachel)
Wataru
TK's Resident Comic Book God & Raggedy Ann Enthusiast.
Sandy Frank dubs. All others are fail.

"Look it [a bear] is scratching it's ass against a pine tree. How majestic."
User avatar
wataru
Seatopian Demigod
 
Posts: 16781
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:25 pm
Location: Casselberry, FL 32707

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby TheSecondComing » Sat May 26, 2012 9:18 am

DaikaijuSokogeki! wrote:
TheSecondComing wrote:Christopher Nolan turned Joker into a boring knife-collecting guy who blows up empty hospitals.

Overrated doesn't even begin to cover it.


And implants bombs into living people. And holds two boats full of people hostage. And slams a man's eye onto a pencil. And orchestrates several successful bank robberies with high death counts (including his own men). Saying he's boring completely undermines the viciousness this incarnation of the character has.



Right, but all those things just seem like something anybody could do in the Bat-verse. The human bomb thing was a cool idea, but they didn't give it that special Joker touch. Joker is unique because every time he plans stuff, he makes it big and gives it his own kind of goofy style that only he can get away with, whether it's gassing Gotham-ites with parade balloons in Tim Burton's Batman, taking over Arkham Asylum and turning it into a murderous funhouse in the Arkham Asylum game, attempting to poison Gotham with his own infected blood in Arkham City (not a major plot point, but I digress) or any number of things in the comics.

Nolan (and to a degree, Ledger's) version of Joker is just a street thug with trashy clothes, annoying facial tics, a faux British accent and a comparatively weak sense of theatrics.
User avatar
TheSecondComing
G-Grasper
 
Posts: 1383
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:58 pm

Re: Christopher Nolan

Postby SuperSaiyan4Godzilla » Sat May 26, 2012 12:13 pm

While Nolan's Joker is certainly creepy and chilling at times, he lacks the "HAHAHAHAHAHAH" of the Joker. And the "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH" isn't just some laugh. Nolan's Joker didn't have any of the funny, the humor, the "oh God, why am I laughing at this?" moments.

And he wasn't over the top. You can still do Nolan's gritty realism and being over the top.
Dave wrote:I will skreeonk hop on a plane, come to your home, log into my account through your computer, and warn you right thar in front of you while I cockslap the shit out of you. Then I'll make myself a sandwich while you huddle in a corner sobbing to yourself.
User avatar
SuperSaiyan4Godzilla
Super Saurian
 
Posts: 3879
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:52 am
Location: Radiant Garden

PreviousNext

Return to Media Center

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Superrex, The One and Only and 10 guests