The Dark Knight Rises (2012)

[Hedorah]

For the record I agree with Goji, Migul doesn't make any skreeonk sense most of the time.

It's not even that he doesn't always make sense, he'll usually just take everything that's already been said in a thread and just says it again without adding anything to it.

[miguelnuva]

Cry me a skreeonk river, you big baby. It's a not a "rant", it's simply me pointing out how incredibly nonsensical what you're saying is.

I'm a big baby, now who's the one acting nonsensical. You've taken every chance you have gotten to say negative things about me to me and when have I attacked you what once or twice.

Since I don't feel like flooding the Dark Knight thread anymore you have two choices.

1. We can ignore each other and end the argument now.

or

2. You can do the one thing I repeat to you and you don't seem to understand and PM with your problems with me and maybe we can talk this out like sensible Gentlemen.

If you choose option 1
Adios amigo.

[Mothra Freak]

Miguel, you don't seem to understand that quality doesn't correlate to box office success.

Yes, Heath Ledger's death probably made the movie more popular and contributed to ticket sales, but that doesn't mean the movie wasn't good anyway.

I believe that's what Goji is trying to tell you.

[miguelnuva]

Miguel, you don't seem to understand that quality doesn't correlate to box office success.

Yes, Heath Ledger's death probably made the movie more popular and contributed to ticket sales, but that doesn't mean the movie wasn't good anyway.

I believe that's what Goji is trying to tell you.

I may have said this wrong but What I am trying to say is the movie was made more popular to Ledger's death. His promance is what made the movie great is what I'm saying.

I would also like to apologize to Goji if I confused him with saying good in the first post I made instead of popular which Is what I was trying to say at the start.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Miguel, you don't seem to understand that quality doesn't correlate to box office success.

Yes, Heath Ledger's death probably made the movie more popular and contributed to ticket sales, but that doesn't mean the movie wasn't good anyway.

I believe that's what Goji is trying to tell you.

I may have said this wrong but What I am trying to say is the movie was made more popular to Ledger's death. His promance is what made the movie great is what I'm saying.

See, the bolded statement is entirely wrong. As it's been said multiple times, even without Ledger's performance, the film is still great in its own right. The film still would have been popular and successful and "great", as you put it, even if Ledger was still alive. The film still would have made a lot of money, the critics would have praised it the same amount, and the film would still be where it's at.

There is more to The Dark Knight then just Ledger's performance.

[Crocodile]

Yeah I have a hard time believing the Dark Knight would have been AS successful without Ledger. I remember bunches of people saying that they wanted to see the movie for Ledger's performance. Would have been successful without him, probably. Would it have still been diamond studded pool successful? That I can't say.

There is more to The Dark Knight then just Ledger's performance.

Yes, but TDK is like a Jenga tower, it needs it's whole cast to stand as soundly as it does. Take Ledger out, and the movie isn't quite as strong.

[wataru]

Im just gonna say this...

TDK is a good movie. It is not epic. Sorry, it's not.. It's SUBLIMELY overrated. Why is it overrated? Because the film goes off in too many directions and some people think this creates depth.

Bruce Wayne's struggle with batman
Bruce Wayne's struggle with his feelings for Rachel.
Harvey Dent
The Joker being insane.
Batman vs The Joker
Two-Face.
Batman vs Two-Face in a very lackluster showdown
Batman becoming The Dark Knight

All of these angles were pruned and meshed into one film that when you think about is remember for one thing: Heathe Ledger's Joker. Two-Face was an afterthought in the film and how fast he was created, evolved and DIED I think shows whoever wrote it decided to half way through to STOP making a Joker movie and start making a Batman movie.

And GxG, Im sorry, but Aaron Eckart's performance was anything but memorable. He was extremely flat up until he got maimed. The love angle wasnt really 'there'. It was so strained between Harvey and Rachael, it just DID NOT WORK.

This doesnt mean I dont like TDK and dont consider it EASILY in the top 5 greatest superhero films of all time, but it couldve been ALOT better with the Two-Face angle.

[Proofpoochie]

^ Agree so much with this. I thought Bale, Eckhart and Gyllenhaal gave flat performances. Nolan's directing was by-the-numbers and the character development was very poor.

[Sydney Aradi]

The Dark Knight is a film that I do respect its importance for the superhero film genre as a whole and I do acknowledge that it is a good film but it is not a film that I could watch over & over again obessively like I do with movies like Daredevil, Elektra & other superhero films.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

Yeah I have a hard time believing the Dark Knight would have been AS successful without Ledger. I remember bunches of people saying that they wanted to see the movie for Ledger's performance. Would have been successful without him, probably. Would it have still been diamond studded pool successful? That I can't say.

There is more to The Dark Knight then just Ledger's performance.

Yes, but TDK is like a Jenga tower, it needs it's whole cast to stand as soundly as it does. Take Ledger out, and the movie isn't quite as strong.

I disagree. There's a lot of The Dark Knight to love. All around great performances from everyone (except Bale), a story that is tightly written and leaves the audience wanting more, a dark yet thrilling atmosphere, and just a great way to present a super hero movie.

As I've said, I don't even think Ledger gave the best performance. The film is about Harvey Dent, and it's sold by Aaron Eckhart's performance. He starts off as this smart, protective, kinda jackass guy who wants to protect the city in his own way, a way where this costumed vigilante would no longer be necessary. As the film progresses, he begins to see the darker side of his world, and realize it isn't all that it's cracked up to be. We see this through Eckhart's eyes and expressions, and you really get the feel for him. That even though his world is beginning to collapse, he's still trying to maintain sanity. But just when things start to get better, things only fall apart more and he truly dives into the chaos. The way that he's lived his life fails, and he's lost everything. And all because of chance.

The film is about the rise and fall of Harvey Dent, and Eckhart plays the role perfectly. I can't imagine him doing anything differently, and I really feel for this guy. To me, that's the strongest point the film has to offer.

[wataru]

This film is about the rise and fall of Harvey Dent?

Im sorry, what?

It's a Batman film
The title the film is The Dark Knight, a name given to Batman.
The star is Bale who plays Bruce Wayne/Batman.
Batman is the protagonist.
The POINT OF THE FILM is Batman becomes THE DARK KNIGHT. The hero Gotham deserves, not what it needs right now.

It's a BATMAN movie. It's not a Harvey Dent movie. Unofficial it's The Joker Movie co-starring Batman, with a special appearance by Two-Face.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

This film is about the rise and fall of Harvey Dent?

Im sorry, what?

It's a Batman film
The title the film is The Dark Knight, a name given to Batman.
The star is Bale who plays Bruce Wayne/Batman.
Batman is the protagonist.
The POINT OF THE FILM is Batman becomes THE DARK KNIGHT. The hero Gotham deserves, not what it needs right now.

It's a BATMAN movie. It's not a Harvey Dent movie. Unofficial it's The Joker Movie co-starring Batman, with a special appearance by Two-Face.

Um...yeah. The film is about Harvey Dent. That's what the focus of the story is. Everything that Batman and the Joker attempt to do over the course of the film revolves around Harvey Dent. Harvey has the most character development. Sure, Batman develops character, but not as much as Harvey. It's Harvey Dent's story, with both Batman and the Joker playing large roles in his development.

Just because the film is called The Dark Knight and stars Batman, does not make it Batman's story. Batman is just a character in Harvey Dent's story.

[Proofpoochie]

The film is about the rise and fall of Harvey Dent, and Eckhart plays the role perfectly. I can't imagine him doing anything differently, and I really feel for this guy. To me, that's the strongest point the film has to offer.

???

Eckhart's performance was fairly flat and the character development was pretty poor.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

The film is about the rise and fall of Harvey Dent, and Eckhart plays the role perfectly. I can't imagine him doing anything differently, and I really feel for this guy. To me, that's the strongest point the film has to offer.

???

Eckhart's performance was fairly flat and the character development was pretty poor.

I disagree entirely. Eckhart delivers a powerful yet quiet performance of Harvey Dent (at least until Joker scales up his attacks), and there's character development all over the place. Even from the first time we see Dent, he begins to develop.

[Proofpoochie]

The film is about the rise and fall of Harvey Dent, and Eckhart plays the role perfectly. I can't imagine him doing anything differently, and I really feel for this guy. To me, that's the strongest point the film has to offer.

???

Eckhart's performance was fairly flat and the character development was pretty poor.

I disagree entirely. Eckhart delivers a powerful yet quiet performance of Harvey Dent (at least until Joker scales up his attacks), and there's character development all over the place. Even from the first time we see Dent, he begins to develop.

I don't know. I think TDK is a fairly good film but, it's extremely overrated IMO.

TDKR, however, looks pretty horrendous.

[Tyler]

Horrendous?

[wataru]

No, GxG, Harvey Dent is a character in the Batman universe. His origin is told and story executed in this BATMAN movie. He was a cog in the grand wheel of turning Batman from a hero, to the villain. It was the evolution of Batman from a "face" to a dark anti-hero. Look up anti-hero, a picture of Batman will be beside it.

The Dark Knight is about Batman, after BB, and his continuing adventures as it's protector. His vigilantism spawns a villain of equal intensity in The Joker. Batman is the extreme. To cope with the extreme, a new player comes into Gotham, which is Harvey Dent. He is brought in a foil to the love story between Rachel and Batman/Bruce. Bruce wants to be with Rachel and there's an obsticle - Batman. He wants to retire being Batman and allow Dent to fight the criminals legally, but The Joker doesnt allow it. To compound his perversion, The Joker takes Dent and makes him into Two-Face. Batman is forced to effectively remove Dent, creating a vacuum that cannot be filled but a hero Gotham can get behind.

Jesus man, listen to what Alfred and Gordan SAY about Batman. This is a post-Gotham Batman and the villains who come out to play.

Everything about his movie is geared (very badly IMO) towards Batman.

Crime.
Batman fights crime.
Crime fights back with The Joker.
Batman fights The Joker, scarring Gotham.
An element of the 'fight' is The Joker corrupting Harvey Dent into Two-Face TO SHOW UP BATMAN.
Batman removes Two-Face (Dent is dead by this time) and The Joker.
Gotham is a festering wound, to save it, to give Gotham the hero is needs, Batman becomes

THE
DARK
KNIGHT

If Dent was THE main antagonist, then yes, it would be a Harvey Dent movie. But it is NOT. The overall shell of this movie is BATMAN. To advance the character THE JOKER is created. Dent is just part of The Joker's tools. Like burning the money, killing Rachel, the boat of inmates and the boat of citizens with the triggers to bombs.

You examine ONE element and fixate on it. You dont see the forest through the trees.

IT'S.
A.
BATMAN.
MOVIE.

[GotengoXGodzilla]

I don't know. I think TDK is a fairly good film but, it's extremely overrated IMO.

TDKR, however, looks pretty horrendous.

Well, I wouldn't say that's the film's fault. That would go to people who have made the film out to be more than it is, like people over at IMDB. To me, a film should not be looked down upon just because of it's fans, no matter how obnoxious or annoying they can be.

As for The Dark Knight Rises, I've enjoyed what I've seen from trailers so far. Honestly, I look forward to it more then The Avengers, because Christopher Nolan, IMO, is the best director in Hollywood right now. That man can do no wrong to me.

EDIT: Wataru, I never said that The Dark Knight was Harvey Dent's film. I said it was Harvey Dent's story. His story is the focus point of the film. Everything that happens in the film revolves around him. Batman sees Harvey as a sign of the new hero of Gotham. The Joker sees him as a way to show how any man can be brought down a peg. Both of them use Harvey to get what they ultimately want. Over the course of the film, we see Harvey become a beacon of hope for Gotham, only to see his decent into chaos and his final demise. That's more than what happens to either Batman or Joker over the course of the film.

In the end, it's Batman's film, but Harvey Dent's story.

[wataru]

Im not liking all Im seeing with TDKR. It seems to be moving away from the gothic and into the pew pew pew tech and spandex crap.

A flying Bat-thing.
Batgirl
BANE. OMG BANE?! Seriously BANE?! Nolan was doing so well in the cerebral villain department. Mad Hatter wouldve been a nice touch. Shit I could see a Robin coming in, start off with Jason Todd and turn him into an ultra violent mask Batman has to take down and go with the "always walking the edge" motif.

[HayesAJones]

That man can do no wrong to me.

A pink batsuit.