The Official Star Wars Saga Thread

[Rhedosaurus]

Midnight's Edge is very controversial; especially in the Star Trek arena. It is either the legit-est of the legit, or a complete hack-job, depending on who you talk to.

Which is ironic since the main 3 heads of Midnight's Edge, the founder, the narrator for the documentaries, and head of Midnight's Edge sister channel, Midnight's Edge After Dark are all big Trek fans.

[Zarm]

Well, some of the Trek tribes *like* what they have to say, and others don't, just as some like what CBS is doing, and others... would sooner see the franchise in the hands of the Borg.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Midnight's Edge is very controversial; especially in the Star Trek arena. It is either the legit-est of the legit, or a complete hack-job, depending on who you talk to.

Which is ironic since the main 3 heads of Midnight's Edge, the founder, the narrator for the documentaries, and head of Midnight's Edge sister channel, Midnight's Edge After Dark are all big Trek fans.

As a big Star Trek fan, I give zero shits what Midnight’s Edge thinks or cares about anything. I’ve seen every single series, and second to Godzilla, it’s the most closest thing I’m familiar with.

The issue is with YouTube, is that it’s far easier to generate revenue based on behaviorist or hatred for something. It’s easy to rally against something. No one wants to hear, “X is Alright”, they want to hear “X is the worst and fucked their mother”.

And, there’s a money aspect involved.

There’s some good media criticism on YouTube, but the clickbait shit you keep posting is obnoxious. Is KATHLEEN kennedy bad at managing Star Wars? Maybe...? Do I care? No. I hate how modern “criticism” has devolved into personally attacking and degrading people. I’m also sick of hate or love trains, and just want to see the damn fucking movie, regardless of “hype” or “hate”.

[ScootaVaran]

Sad but true. You'll get far more views with a top 10 WORST ECT... Than you do with a top 10 best vid.
And they all know that.
It's YouTube tabloids.

[miguelnuva]

Midnight's Edge is very controversial; especially in the Star Trek arena. It is either the legit-est of the legit, or a complete hack-job, depending on who you talk to.

Which is ironic since the main 3 heads of Midnight's Edge, the founder, the narrator for the documentaries, and head of Midnight's Edge sister channel, Midnight's Edge After Dark are all big Trek fans.

As a big Star Trek fan, I give zero shits what Midnight’s Edge thinks or cares about anything. I’ve seen every single series, and second to Godzilla, it’s the most closest thing I’m familiar with.

The issue is with YouTube, is that it’s far easier to generate revenue based on behaviorist or hatred for something. It’s easy to rally against something. No one wants to hear, “X is Alright”, they want to hear “X is the worst and skreeonked their mother”.

And, there’s a money aspect involved.

There’s some good media criticism on YouTube, but the clickbait poop you keep posting is obnoxious. Is KATHLEEN kennedy bad at managing Star Wars? Maybe...? Do I care? No. I hate how modern “criticism” has devolved into personally attacking and degrading people. I’m also sick of hate or love trains, and just want to see the damn skreeonking movie, regardless of “hype” or “hate”.

Blame social media for letting idoits have a voice. Not everyone dishes out personal attacks when they're angry just idoits that the majority wouldn't pay attention to in real life anyway. Unfortunately because they're the most vulgar they're also the loudest.

[Cookson]

As far as the Anakin/Palpatine discussion.... here’s the thing, if in the PT George Lucas didn’t introduce the PROPHECY storyline bit, I wouldn’t really care if Anakin showed up in the ST. BUT now that Palpatine is back, it just feels so necessary for Anakin to come back in some way. He just has to come back or rewatching this Skywalker saga of films just wont seem right.

That is why this trilogy is so bad though. Disney was more about big explosions and pretty looking scenes than finishing off a deep end to the overall story. They HAD a main villain in Snoke, but now that he’s dead they decided to bring Sidious back(which you know wasn’t the original plan)... so if you’re going to bring him back, Anakin needs to as well. Those two characters are more tied together than anyone imo. You bring back one, you bring back the other.

The thing that’s annoying is you know it won’t happen. JJ sitting in his chair right now thinking “why the hell didn’t we get Anakin in this?”

Added in 5 minutes 56 seconds:
Disney should have just started their own brand new trilogy of stories based THOUSANDS of years after RotJ. That way you don’t sacrifice anything Anakin, Luke and Leia did. But they made these and imo is a huge mess of a saga now.

[miguelnuva]

My biggest question if it's not answered in is is what was the point of not making Rey a Skywalker and calling it a day. I could see if Disney wanted a new charcter to build up it would have been fine but Rey has Skywalker traits and her power would at least make sense if she was a Skywalker considering 14 year old Anakin can beat Maul according to Disney.

[Cookson]

My biggest question if it's not answered in is is what was the point of not making Rey a Skywalker and calling it a day. I could see if Disney wanted a new charcter to build up it would have been fine but Rey has Skywalker traits and her power would at least make sense if she was a Skywalker considering 14 year old Anakin can beat Maul according to Disney.

And I agree with this. Most people would say that’s too easy and not everyone needs to be related. I would say but this is the SKYWALKER SAGA. Easy tweaks could have easily done this and like you said.. be done with it.

Hell... expand on my idea above on this. A new trilogy of films thousands of years after RotJ, that doesn’t take away anything our original heroes did. Follows our new hero, the great descendant of the Skywalkers... Rey.

[eabaker]

My biggest question if it's not answered in is is what was the point of not making Rey a Skywalker and calling it a day. I could see if Disney wanted a new charcter to build up it would have been fine but Rey has Skywalker traits and her power would at least make sense if she was a Skywalker considering 14 year old Anakin can beat Maul according to Disney.

The idea of her "power" being associated with her lineage would only serve to reinforce one of the worst interpretations of how characters interact with the Force. A spiritual connection to the binding energy of reality itself should not be an inherited trait.

[_JNavs_]

Personally, I prefer the much more interesting inherited force powers, along with "The Force" being an actual tangible force, over the "anybody who focuses hard enough can move a boulder, if they just believe".

[eabaker]

I find inherited force powers far, far less interesting. It takes a cool philosophical/religious concept and reduces it to half-baked sci-fi. And what is the message that sends? That connection to the divine is a matter of blood? No thanks. I don't watch Star Wars to have antiquated notions of the inherent superiority of the aristocracy reinforced.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I find inherited force powers far, far less interesting. It takes a cool philosophical/religious concept and reduces it to half-baked sci-fi. And what is the message that sends? That connection to the divine is a matter of blood? No thanks.

It also renders a characters own identity irrelevant. They’re not amazing or special because they worked hard, they’re just born into it. While Luke being Darth Vader’s son is a fantastic twist, And great in empire, there’s something really quaint about Luke being a nobody in the original film.

This is actually why I liked Rey not having some big special parentage thing in TLJD. It’s reinforced at the end, with the shot of the random kid in the barn using the force
It’s also why I like Kylo Ren, because he’s distinct enough from Darth vader by being “bitchy” and isn’t just a Vader Clone. His entire arc in Force Awakens, is him trying to live up to his fathers hype. He’s actually a good inversion if the trope of lineage.

[Destoroyah of Worlds]

I'm currently reading Thrawn right now. Not a bad book. Reminds me of Sherlock Holmes.

[eabaker]

This is actually why I liked Rey not having some big special parentage thing in TLJD. It’s reinforced at the end, with the shot of the random kid in the barn using the force
It’s also why I like Kylo Ren, because he’s distinct enough from Darth vader by being “bitchy” and isn’t just a Vader Clone. His entire arc in Force Awakens, is him trying to live up to his fathers hype. He’s actually a good inversion if the trope of lineage.

Agreed on all counts.

I love how much the Sequel Trilogy so far has shaped up to be about the ways in which characters make their own futures, in contrast t the far more fatalistic Prequel Trilogy.

[Cookson]

But now your bring back Palpatine. So what now?

[_JNavs_]

But now your bring back Palpatine. So what now?

I still have no idea who the "main" protagonists are lol, they're still empty shells, and yet Disney's Lucasfilm decides to focus on the Palpatine thing. Hopefully they give at least one of these new characters a satisfying conclusion. Kylo is the only redeeming factor for me, and even then his whiny-ness makes that hard to say. He really is the actual protagonist of these new films.

[GodzillavsZilla]

But now your bring back Palpatine. So what now?

I still have no idea who the "main" protagonists are lol, they're still empty shells, and yet Disney's Lucasfilm decides to focus on the Palpatine thing. Hopefully they give at least one of these new characters a satisfying conclusion. Kylo is the only redeeming factor for me, and even then his whiny-ness makes that hard to say. He really is the actual protagonist of these new films.

Have "main" protagonists in Star Wars really been very good since the original trilogy though? I can't think of a single well done, original (so not entirely counting Palpatine in the prequels), villain in any of the movies besides Kylo Ren. All of the prequel villains stand and look cool to hide the fact that they have no character, Krennic is overshadowed by Tarken and Darth Vader, the villain in Solo was boring, Hux is a comedy, Phasma is a prequel villain, and Snoke is wasted. Kylo is the only one who's remotely interesting while having a character.

[_JNavs_]

But now your bring back Palpatine. So what now?

I still have no idea who the "main" protagonists are lol, they're still empty shells, and yet Disney's Lucasfilm decides to focus on the Palpatine thing. Hopefully they give at least one of these new characters a satisfying conclusion. Kylo is the only redeeming factor for me, and even then his whiny-ness makes that hard to say. He really is the actual protagonist of these new films.

Have "main" protagonists in Star Wars really been very good since the original trilogy though? I can't think of a single well done, original (so not entirely counting Palpatine in the prequels), villain in any of the movies besides Kylo Ren. All of the prequel villains stand and look cool to hide the fact that they have no character, Krennic is overshadowed by Tarken and Darth Vader, the villain in Solo was boring, Hux is a comedy, Phasma is a prequel villain, and Snoke is wasted. Kylo is the only one who's remotely interesting while having a character.

I think as far as the Prequels go, it's hard to say there were any original protagonists due to the pure fact that they were all in the OT in one form or another. I liked Padme, who was pretty much a new addition to the lore, but the trilogy really focused on Anakin and Obi Wan. Jango, Mace Windu, Dooku, and Qui-Gon were some other pretty good "main" characters in the prequels. Palpatine really shined as well, but as you said he's not original, however he certainly kept the stakes at an all time high in those films.

I agree with your thoughts on the new villains, but I'd say Phasma is like a Half-Assed Snitch version of OT Boba Fett. I also agree with your thoughts on Kylo, as he seems to be the only one with a raw personality.

[GodzillavsZilla]

I still have no idea who the "main" protagonists are lol, they're still empty shells, and yet Disney's Lucasfilm decides to focus on the Palpatine thing. Hopefully they give at least one of these new characters a satisfying conclusion. Kylo is the only redeeming factor for me, and even then his whiny-ness makes that hard to say. He really is the actual protagonist of these new films.

Have "main" protagonists in Star Wars really been very good since the original trilogy though? I can't think of a single well done, original (so not entirely counting Palpatine in the prequels), villain in any of the movies besides Kylo Ren. All of the prequel villains stand and look cool to hide the fact that they have no character, Krennic is overshadowed by Tarken and Darth Vader, the villain in Solo was boring, Hux is a comedy, Phasma is a prequel villain, and Snoke is wasted. Kylo is the only one who's remotely interesting while having a character.

I think as far as the Prequels go, it's hard to say there were any original protagonists due to the pure fact that they were all in the OT in one form or another. I liked Padme, who was pretty much a new addition to the lore, but the trilogy really focused on Anakin and Obi Wan. Jango, Mace Windu, Dooku, and Qui-Gon were some other pretty good "main" characters in the prequels. Palpatine really shined as well, but as you said he's not original, however he certainly kept the stakes at an all time high in those films.

I agree with your thoughts on the new villains, but I'd say Phasma is like a Half-Assed Snitch version of OT Boba Fett. I also agree with your thoughts on Kylo, as he seems to be the only one with a raw personality.

Oh shit, I thought we were talking about villains, I have no idea how that occurred to me, I'm sorry about that lol.

But, I have to disagree with the characters in the prequels. I find Padme, Mace Windu, and Qui Gon to be horribly uninteresting when only focusing on the films with the former two having some of the worst performances in the franchise; they sound so wooden and dull, a lot of the scenes with them are just the worst for me. Jango and Dooku are interesting in concept, but the execution is wonky, Christopher Lee is one of the few actors in the prequels who actually sounds like he's having fun so Dooku has that going for him at least.

[LSD Jellyfish]

But now your bring back Palpatine. So what now?

I still have no idea who the "main" protagonists are lol, they're still empty shells, and yet Disney's Lucasfilm decides to focus on the Palpatine thing. Hopefully they give at least one of these new characters a satisfying conclusion. Kylo is the only redeeming factor for me, and even then his whiny-ness makes that hard to say. He really is the actual protagonist of these new films.

I keep hearing people harp on about how they’re empty shells, when they’re clearly not. They’re not the most developed characters, but both Kylo Ren and Rey are very defined. And they work as great foils to each other.

Rey’s issue is that she wants to be someone important, and have some sort of “fate” or destiny tied to a lineage and is haunted by it. Kylo Ren is the reverse, he’s haunted by the thing Rey wants, being part of some grand plan or lineage.

Kylo Ren has tons of moments that clearly define him as a character, such as the scene where he loses his shit and destroys the room he is with his lightsaber. He does deplorable things. He wants so badly to be his own person, and his rebellion against Snoke, and temporary team ups with Rey is one of the biggest defining character moments ever. He’s “evil”, but he can still be reasoned with and talked with. The entire arc of him and Rey communicating, is their respective vulnerabilities and seeking answers.

People talk about how Rey is a “Mary-sue” but they completely ignore how vulnerable her character is. In the force awakens, she’s clearly emotionally desperate for an adventure, or her life having some greater meaning. When the opportunity presents itself, through Finn, she leaps into action without really questioning anything. In TLJD, she’s developed as you see the repercussions of that mindset.

I agree a lot of the side characters are “empty shells”, but then again so are most of the original trilogy characters anyways. But yeah I would argue that Kylo is just as much the protagonist is as Rey. And I agree brining Palestine is a mistake.