General movies/Hollywood thread.

For the discussion of movies and TV shows not distributed by Toho.
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LSD Jellyfish
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:48 pm

Just wanted to let it out there that as a straight white male, who grew up in the 1990’s; I never viewed Ariel as a sex symbol. While I understand people are free to have their own feelings and sexual interests, this is the first time I’ve ever heard of Ariel as a sex symbol. She is not sexualized in any form. But other people pretty much tore that idea apart anyways.

Anyways, I’m gonna put this out there, that as an Irish person, my full name being a “nickname”, I don’t see or care that suddenly a random redhead, isn’t white. I would also like to point out, that yes, while many Irish people have red hair, it is within itself a stereotype, and there are plenty of other Irish people with different hair. There are plenty of fantastic Irish and Scottish actors, throughout media. I don’t buy this sudden “we need more Irish representation in media” argument. Like the strange out of left field “sudden sex symbol” discussion, I view it as just a made up reason to complain about, in order to ignore the unconscious reason.

And again, this is all based upon the presumption that Ariel is “Irish/white” when she is clearly a fictional race of Merfolk.

And while I don’t want to say this just because the acctress is black, there’s a lot of positive things they could do with it. For example, the inclusion of Caribbean themed music, and imagery. Additionally, assuming Eric is white, they could do something subtle or unsubtle about interracial marriages still being difficult.

Also, shoutout to the Japanese anime that predated the Disney version where Ariel isn’t a red head.

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Ariel is a fictional character engrained in pop culture. Portrayals of her will continue to change.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby Spirit Ghidorah 2010 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:29 pm

Red-headed people are grossly under-represented in media. That is an indisputable and undeniable fact. There is not a single film or TV show that prominently portrays a redheaded person in a positive or empowering role, not even as superheroes. Seriously, this underrepresentation of redheaded people in medianeeds to stop right now.

#justiceforredheads
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:59 pm

Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote:Red-headed people are grossly under-represented in media. That is an indisputable and undeniable fact. There is not a single film or TV show that prominently portrays a redheaded person in a positive or empowering role, not even as superheroes. Seriously, this underrepresentation of redheaded people in medianeeds to stop right now.

#justiceforredheads

I’m dying.

But you know this reason, like the others, is just an excuse because people are upset she’s black pr whatever.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby tyrantgoji » Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:09 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote:Red-headed people are grossly under-represented in media. That is an indisputable and undeniable fact. There is not a single film or TV show that prominently portrays a redheaded person in a positive or empowering role, not even as superheroes. Seriously, this underrepresentation of redheaded people in medianeeds to stop right now.

#justiceforredheads

I’m dying.

But you know this reason, like the others, is just an excuse because people are upset she’s black pr whatever.


i think it's just stems from popularity. like i've seen in a post before here, Ariel has plenty of other designs that stem from blonde hair and there's probably a couple that have Brown or even Black. yet Disney's is the most popular one, and people are gonna freak about "that's not the one i grew up with!"

same goes for Sherlock Holmes, the most famous version of the detective..... isn't even the original Sherlock! but people freak because they think it is, and thus think any other interpetation is not being true to the "original" vision.

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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby _JNavs_ » Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:43 pm

Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote:Red-headed people are grossly under-represented in media. That is an indisputable and undeniable fact. There is not a single film or TV show that prominently portrays a redheaded person in a positive or empowering role, not even as superheroes. Seriously, this underrepresentation of redheaded people in medianeeds to stop right now.

#justiceforredheads

75% of these characters are animated.

And just to toss it out there, even April'O'Neil got the ol switcharoo as of recent. Both in movie and show form.

A terrible comedian isn't really "mainstream big character" either.

All I'm saying is all the big red heads got the switcharoo, it's up to interpretation whether you think it's a positive or a negative. I'm whatever about it, just some food for thought.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:46 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:55 pm

_JNavs_ wrote:
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote:Red-headed people are grossly under-represented in media. That is an indisputable and undeniable fact. There is not a single film or TV show that prominently portrays a redheaded person in a positive or empowering role, not even as superheroes. Seriously, this underrepresentation of redheaded people in medianeeds to stop right now.

#justiceforredheads

75% of these characters are animated.

And just to toss it out there, even April'O'Neil got the ol switcharoo as of recent. Both in movie and show form.

A terrible comedian isn't really "mainstream big character" either.

All I'm saying is all the big red heads got the switcharoo, it's up to interpretation whether you think it's a positive or a negative. I'm whatever about it, just some food for thought.

Image


Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby _JNavs_ » Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:58 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:Image

You're right, the old Russian lady from "Orange is the New Black" is a good one, she's great.


Though it seems like in that pic she's from a Trekkie show, those are a selective taste from the 90s. I don't know if I'd necessarily count it as an iconic modern character
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:00 pm

_JNavs_ wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:Image

You're right, the old Russian lady from "Orange is the New Black" is a good one, she's great.


Though it seems like in that pic she's from a Trekkie show, those are a selective taste from the 90s. I don't know if I'd necessarily count it as an iconic modern character

Image


Little Mermaid came out in 1989, Voyager came out roughly ten years later. Voyager is more iconic by that logic.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:04 pm

KManX89 wrote:Except Ariel is more than just a cartoon character to many people, she's a sex symbol


This is the funniest thing I've read all day, lol. Like, THAT'S your argument against a black Ariel?
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby Terasawa » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:52 pm

First of all, sorry for the wall of text. I'm out after this one until someone else says something profoundly stupid. But on the subject of skin color and fictional characters, I present the case for an all-white James Bond, 007.

I'm very familiar with the film character, having seen all of the official EON Productions entries as well as 1967's Casino Royale and Kevin McClory's Thunderball remake, Never Say Never Again. On the other hand, I have not read all of Fleming's novels; in fact, I've only read most of Casino Royale, which I couldn't enjoy simply because of Fleming's literary style.

So far, of course, Bond has exclusively been played on film by a white male, usually from the British Isles, although the Casino Royale spoof ends with everyone in the film getting to play James Bond, even women. (I don't recall if there were any minority men at that point in that disaster of a movie.) Fleming's novels reportedly don't give any indication to Bond's racial identity, although later on in the series he's confirmed to have Scottish ancestry.

The author of this Quora answer makes his case for a white Bond on the basis that, in the 1950s in the real world, England unfortunately wouldn't have dared or wouldn't have been able to have a black man operate as 007 does in Fleming's novels. With possibly a few exceptions I'm not aware of, this author could be correct. In conclusion he writes, "I think that people who demand a more diverse casting of James Bond simply don’t know what they’re talking about."

But this all presumes that the films are direct, faithful adaptations of the novels themselves. Some have come close, mostly those made in the early 1960s, but that simply hasn't been the case for this series in many, many years. Even 2006's Casino Royale, the first Fleming adaptation in nearly 20 years, took great liberties with the source novel. But of great importance is the fact that it wasn't set in 1954: it was set in the modern day, in an era in which a man or woman regardless of skin color can have a career in espionage; we've seen both black men and women as spies in recent Bond films with no backlash from outspoken fans.

The 007 of the movies is no longer Ian Fleming's literary character and he hasn't been for decades, if ever. Sean Connery was so unlike the character that at first Fleming hated his casting, but eventually grew fond of his portrayal and added elements of Connery's background to the literary Bond's. And can anyone who's ever seen the Roger Moore or Pierce Brosnan films say that their iterations were much like the character Fleming wrote?

Therefore the importance of race in regards to the literary James Bond 007 doesn't really pertain to the cinematic version. The only way I can see the "black people weren't spies for Britain" argument hold water is if anyone ever adapted a Fleming novel as it was written, i.e. 1950s setting. But as long as 007 films continue as they've been made since at least 1971, there is no credible case for why the Bond of the movies must be white.

For that matter, the same is true of any fictional character for which race is not a factor. This includes the Little Mermaid, who like 007, exists cinematically as a different character than the literary original. The people getting hung up on how she looks in the previous Disney films and TV series are missing the point: her race and appearance weren't even aspects of her "identity" in those stories. Her identity was a mermaid, not a "white, red-haired mermaid." The story still works just the same if she's black, or Asian, or Hispanic, or even a white girl with golden hair.

If you're that mad with those unimportant visual changes to the character then just go enjoy the versions you like. No one is taking them away, and as I said in another comment, they will continue to exist in harmony with this new version of the character and film.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby Saansilt » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:10 pm

In regards to Starfire in “Titans” it’s one of the best portrayals of the character yet and she has the hair go orange when she lights up. In all honesty the controversy against black Ariel is *quite* questionable especially considering the idea of considering Ariel a sex symbol being pulled up as a case against this change.

@KManX89

A) The character is 16. Attaching the words “Sex symbol” to her is creeptastic.

B) It being used as a knock against a black Ariel implies that you don’t believe Black women can be beautiful. Whether that is personal preference or something darker it too is a problematic angle to your argument.

C) She is 16 in the source material. Yes this needs repeating. I am disturbed this is something that was said.
Last edited by Saansilt on Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby KManX89 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:22 am

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
KManX89 wrote:Except Ariel is more than just a cartoon character to many people, she's a sex symbol


This is the funniest thing I've read all day, lol. Like, THAT'S your argument against a black Ariel?


Ariel was a lot of pre-teens' and adolescents' first fictional crush during the 90's. Not literal sex symbol, i.e: porn star-like, but a token of a lot of men's attraction dating back to their early years. I highly doubt many of them feel that way now, or at least I hope not. Yes, I could've worded that better.

Like I said, I myself don't care, but for die-hard fans of the original film, I can see why they'd be disappointed in not getting the classic design.

If HB plays the part well, though, then the naysayers will forget all about it like they did Zendeya as MJ (and Gal Gadot as WW, can't forget THAT one).

In any event, the original film still exists, so it's a moot point.

Terasawa wrote:The 007 of the movies is no longer Ian Fleming's literary character and he hasn't been for decades, if ever.


No kidding. Bond was a red-haired Scottsman in the original Ian Flemming novel IIRC, which is why I'd have no problem with Idris Elba as 007.

Any issues people may have toward the Ariel casting pertain to the original animated film which, again, still exists.
Last edited by KManX89 on Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:08 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby Godzilla21 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:51 am

As a Trekkie I just have to point at that photo of Captain Janeway from Voyager was from the very first episode. She very quickly went to a brunette for the remaining seven seasons
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:28 pm

Godzilla21 wrote:As a Trekkie I just have to point at that photo of Captain Janeway from Voyager was from the very first episode. She very quickly went to a brunette for the remaining seven seasons

Fair enough!
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Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby Godzilla21 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:39 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
Godzilla21 wrote:As a Trekkie I just have to point at that photo of Captain Janeway from Voyager was from the very first episode. She very quickly went to a brunette for the remaining seven seasons

Fair enough!


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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby KManX89 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:21 pm

I just made a startling discovery: the last 5 John Travolta movies in a row have all scored a 0% on RT.

Holy poop. It's unreal for ANY movie to score a 0% seeing how House of the Dead, Alone in the Dark, Meet the Spartans and Disaster Movie at least scored a 1% (MTS actually scored a 2%), but 5 in a row? Seriously, how does any film score a 0% seeing how those 4 wretched abominations never even pulled that off, let alone 5 in a row? From one of the most renowned actors in Hollywood?

Oh boy, the mighty have fallen.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby LegendZilla » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:05 am



I have been fascinated by by company mergers and acquisitions for a long time.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby Rhedosaurus » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:57 am

LegendZilla wrote:


I have been fascinated by by company mergers and acquisitions for a long time.


As you should be. Viacom has at least $1 billion in debt, their stock worth is barely worth anything, and their movie arm, Paramount is somewhere between $12-$15 billion in debt and with stale IP's to boot. Viacom needed this far more then CBS did.

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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Postby LegendZilla » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:56 pm

Rhedosaurus wrote:
LegendZilla wrote:


I have been fascinated by by company mergers and acquisitions for a long time.


As you should be. Viacom has at least $1 billion in debt, their stock worth is barely worth anything, and their movie arm, Paramount is somewhere between $12-$15 billion in debt and with stale IP's to boot. Viacom needed this far more then CBS did.


Do you mind if we discuss mergers/acquisitions on this forums at any given time? If so, what ones to do you feasibly happening in the future? I imagine that within the next decade, Netflix is gonna take a serious beating from competition in the streaming market. As a result it could loose a considerable amount of money, leaving them with the decision to let themselves be bought out. If so, who do you think could buy them? If not Disney then certainly Universal.
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