Re: Franchise Talkback Thread: Terminator (1984 - 2019)

[Tohosaurus]

I quite liked Dark Fate and I genuinely didn't think I would. Huh.

[KManX89]

I quite enjoyed it as well (save for the one "scene", and I think you know what I'm talking about). It was a marked improvement over the last 3, which isn't saying much, but it's an overall solid film if you don't go in expecting another T1 or T2, which will, of course never happen. The action scenes were good (and numerous), the movie was well-paced, and Linda Hamilton and Arnold Schwarzenegger both killed it in this movie (no pun intended). It was great to see them both back (again, no pun intended). MacKenzie Davis was pretty good, too.

Reddit seems to have enjoyed the film as well as did the RT audience score. Too bad we won't get a future war movie with the Legion Terminators since this movie's a certified flop at the box office because people are Terminator'ed out at this point, though the "controversy" didn't help, either.

I'd give it a 7.5/10.

[Jeff-Goldblum2]

I'd say in about 5 years (maybe less) there will be a Terminator 7 marketed somewhat as the latest 'Terminator 3'.

You might say well Terminator: Deep Fake failed at the box office, but Genisys failed as well, which is why they decided to ignore it for this one.

You can see the pattern.

And they will likely write off Legion and Dani as an alternate timeline and never mention them again.

[KManX89]

You know, looking back, I don't see the "scene" as the deal breaker so many others are claiming it to be. In the end, John DID serve his purpose: he shut down Skynet in T2. He did what he was destined to do all along, not with the whole future war leading the Resistance to victory over the machines like we all wanted to see (we only got GLIMPSES of it in the first 3 films), but he fulfilled his prophecy all the same.

In fact, T2 already had everything perfectly wrapped up and didn't NEED any continuation, which is a big part of the reason why all other post-T2 sequels were crap: there was nowhere left for it to go. It certainly didn't help that the 2 writers for T3 have publicly stated they didn't want to write T3 in the first place and infamously hated T2, hence set to undo everything it set up with the intention of never being asked to write another Terminator film again (which is why you see stuff like a fast food worker being a future Resistance soldier), yet were brought back, anyway for Salvation when they didn't want to be.

So, while I WAS annoyed by it, it didn't completely ruin the film for me. His story was already wrapped up, barring a reusing of the "Skynet's transmission through a third party" arc from T3, which this film's detractors ironically said it already did enough of as it is. It would've been nice to see him fighting Legion, which is a whole other animal, in an indeterminate future, but I thought the film was solid and gave the franchise nice closure (which it'll almost certainly be getting with its abysmal box office).

[Breakdown]

I'm on the fence about seeing this movie, but the spoilers I've read REALLY put me off, especially

Spoiler:

John Connor dying. What purpose would assassinating him at that point even achieve? Skynet was destroyed and thus "Carl" would have failed his mission before it even began. Secondly, him integrating into human society makes no sense. Shouldn't he have secondary objectives? After finishing his mission, shouldn't he just shut down or something? In T2 Uncle Bob had to have his CPU altered in order to become self-aware, with the explanation that Skynet keeps them on read-only to prevent that very thing from happening. So how the hell does Carl do this??

[Jeff-Goldblum2]

Probably sent him to 1998 from the original timeline. Before things changed.

[Tohosaurus]

I would maintain that they need to be done with the characters that've been recycled at this point. Star Trek has done this well, advancing/building the universe with different characters whereas this is one of those franchises that feels unable to move on.

Not to mention, with the franchise being so weakened at this point they need a WAY cheaper budget on whatever they make next (which frankly shouldn't be for a while). I am talking like a third of the budget that Dark Fate had, bringing it to a medium budget that's way more focused and sleek.

Added in 1 minute 12 seconds:

For example, the T-800s

I believe Salvation had T-600s, not 800s.

[_JNavs_]

Can we get a lower budget, smaller scope and a Horror vibe to it again?

Terminator was never meant to be an action franchise. Science fiction, suspense and horror are what made the original 2 films.

[eabaker]

I would maintain that they need to be done with the characters that've been recycled at this point. Star Trek has done this well, advancing/building the universe with different characters whereas this is one of those franchises that feels unable to move on.

Star Trek was an ensemble series designed as a showcase or a wide array of stories, though. The Terminator was one specific story. Other stories that happen to take place in the same world but didn't involve the same core characters wouldn't be part of that story, and thus wouldn't meaningfully be "Terminator" movies.

[_JNavs_]

Why didn't people like Salvation again?

It was the only film that went against the (5 film) norm, and I'm sure I would've loved the trilogy they had planned. It was also the only film that felt like a needed continuation of the first 2.

[NSZ]

Why didn't people like Salvation again?

It was the only film that went against the (5 film) norm, and I'm sure I would've loved the trilogy they had planned. It was also the only film that felt like a needed continuation of the first 2.

Sam Worthington not exactly being the best actor, Christian Bale as John Connor took a lot of people out of the film (and his widely publicized freak-out at that sound guy on set for not doing his job properly probably did no favors), writing not being the best due to the Writers Strike, everything being desaturated, things not being 1:1 with the war as envisioned as Cameron yet with all the lasers and stuff, CGI Arnold, the trailers giving away the twist with Marcus...

Though, that all said, you are 100% correct that it is the only sequel thus far to have bothered to try doing anything different, and is also the only post-T2 sequel to not poop on John Connor (ironic given they did originally plan to, but ended up deciding not to).

[Rhedosaurus]

Why didn't people like Salvation again?

It was the only film that went against the (5 film) norm, and I'm sure I would've loved the trilogy they had planned. It was also the only film that felt like a needed continuation of the first 2.

Sam Worthington not exactly being the best actor, Christian Bale as John Connor took a lot of people out of the film (and his widely publicized freak-out at that sound guy on set for not doing his job properly probably did no favors), writing not being the best due to the Writers Strike, everything being desaturated, things not being 1:1 with the war as envisioned as Cameron yet with all the lasers and stuff, CGI Arnold, the trailers giving away the twist with Marcus...

Though, that all said, you are 100% correct that it is the only sequel thus far to have bothered to try doing anything different, and is also the only post-T2 sequel to not poop on John Connor (ironic given they did originally plan to, but ended up deciding not to).

That and it being PG-13 when it should have been rated R didn't much either.

[eabaker]

(and his widely publicized freak-out at that sound guy on set for not doing his job properly probably did no favors)

Are you referring to his "freak-out" at the director of photography for adjusting a light that was in his line of sight during a take?

[NSZ]

(and his widely publicized freak-out at that sound guy on set for not doing his job properly probably did no favors)

Are you referring to his "freak-out" at the director of photography for adjusting a light that was in his line of sight during a take?

Was it the DP? It's been so long that I guess I misremembered it as being a sound guy.

[eabaker]

(and his widely publicized freak-out at that sound guy on set for not doing his job properly probably did no favors)

Are you referring to his "freak-out" at the director of photography for adjusting a light that was in his line of sight during a take?

Was it the DP? It's been so long that I guess I misremembered it as being a sound guy.

I remember it being reported a few different ways at the time, too. I think I saw it on sites as alternately "a lighting guy" or "a sound guy," and only a little later clarified as the dp.

[KManX89]

Why didn't people like Salvation again?

It was the only film that went against the (5 film) norm, and I'm sure I would've loved the trilogy they had planned. It was also the only film that felt like a needed continuation of the first 2.

Sam Worthington not exactly being the best actor, Christian Bale as John Connor took a lot of people out of the film (and his widely publicized freak-out at that sound guy on set for not doing his job properly probably did no favors), writing not being the best due to the Writers Strike, everything being desaturated, things not being 1:1 with the war as envisioned as Cameron yet with all the lasers and stuff, CGI Arnold, the trailers giving away the twist with Marcus...

Though, that all said, you are 100% correct that it is the only sequel thus far to have bothered to try doing anything different, and is also the only post-T2 sequel to not poop on John Connor (ironic given they did originally plan to, but ended up deciding not to).

That and it being PG-13 when it should have been rated R didn't much either.

It being written by the 2 guys who infamously hated T2 and wrote T3 despite them saying they didn't want to and wrote the film with the intention of never being asked to write another Terminator film again didn't help, either.

But yeah, Arnold said it best.

[Rhedosaurus]

Sam Worthington not exactly being the best actor, Christian Bale as John Connor took a lot of people out of the film (and his widely publicized freak-out at that sound guy on set for not doing his job properly probably did no favors), writing not being the best due to the Writers Strike, everything being desaturated, things not being 1:1 with the war as envisioned as Cameron yet with all the lasers and stuff, CGI Arnold, the trailers giving away the twist with Marcus...

Though, that all said, you are 100% correct that it is the only sequel thus far to have bothered to try doing anything different, and is also the only post-T2 sequel to not poop on John Connor (ironic given they did originally plan to, but ended up deciding not to).

That and it being PG-13 when it should have been rated R didn't much either.

It being written by the 2 guys who infamously hated T2 and wrote T3 despite them saying they didn't want to and wrote the film with the intention of never being asked to write another Terminator film again didn't help, either.

WHOA!!!

I never heard about that before.

[KManX89]

That and it being PG-13 when it should have been rated R didn't much either.

It being written by the 2 guys who infamously hated T2 and wrote T3 despite them saying they didn't want to and wrote the film with the intention of never being asked to write another Terminator film again didn't help, either.

WHOA!!!

I never heard about that before.

Yes, it's true.

But yeah, it's no secret Salvation was bad. Even Arnold thinks it sucked, LOL.

[gottatalktothefake]

I enjoyed Dark Fate, it wasn't nearly as good as the first 2 though

[Tohosaurus]

Star Trek was an ensemble series designed as a showcase or a wide array of stories, though. The Terminator was one specific story. Other stories that happen to take place in the same world but didn't involve the same core characters wouldn't be part of that story, and thus wouldn't meaningfully be "Terminator" movies.

I agree that Trek was different in that way, but I believe there are more things in the war or so on that could've been explored.