The Star Trek Thread (All TV & Movies)

[LSD Jellyfish]

I think the last three episodes, especially the last two have made me really excited to see more and I think it'll be better than I originally feared.


That being said, the accusations of plagiarisms. Asked on the tardigrades is beyond dumb. I don't even think it's worth addressing too much but here's the abridged version:

-Tardigrades aren't fictional characters, they're real life organisms that are notorious for their invulnerability, and as a result would be bound to be used in something revolving space.

-Even if we accept the tardigrades idea, the idea is super different and executed in such a different idea to the point it wouldn't be plagiarism. The tardigrades don't initiate the space travel, they interact with the spores and control it. The spores cause the travel, not the tardiagrades. The flash game involves a tardigrade as a literal spaceship.

-The idea that the characters are similar is dumb. Star Trek discovery already has dozens of characters, and, congrats, you have a black woman as a protagonist. That isn't plagiarism, it's a coincidence, a really insignificant one. Focusing on the appearance is ignoring the fact that the characters have completely different personalities and backgrounds is a blatant misdirection. On top of that Micheal has an elaborate backstory. If by for whatever chance, this guys flash game included a character that senses fear, someone that has a metal visor, an Asian lady that serves as a mentor.

-Most importantly, even if this is inspired, its irrevant. You have to say that the supposed flash game isn't released yet, and the tardigrade stuff appeared in 2015. Sorry but if something's not finished, then it's fair game. To be very clear I'm not talking about designs being stolen or repurposed in private, that's fine a completely valid accusation. But if you start saying that you had something in essentially development hell for two years publically it's fair game.

-Also consider that Star Trek is an established franchise. I garuntee you if they need something, and want to be lazy, they could've easily reused lots of shit in the Star Trek cannon.

Let's be clear, this is a minor coincidence, it is not plagirarism. To be honest I believe the author of the game realized the coincidence and is solely using it to generate attention for his development hell point and click.

[Zarm]

I would disagree. The visual style, the specific concept of a space-going, teleporting giant blue tardigrade, and the very specific ethnicities of the gay couple? That's far too many 'coincidences' chained to be anything other than theft to me.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Yeah but a lot of these things are completely subjective stretches.

Take the homosexual couple. First the "middle eastern@ guy isn't Arabic or whatever in Star Trek Discovery, he's ambiguously black. His "counterpart" in the game doesn't look like him, and the misleading stretch is that the two characters are identical when they aren't. The same goes for a white dude, he has a weird beard thing. Basically there's a bunch of stretches to assume that there's similarities when people are digging for some. Congratulations, you have a homosexual white make and ambiguously black gay couple! It's almost like those are two really common ethnicities!

If you also read the OP, the author isn't even accusing Discovery of anything bad, it actually seems he fear people will think he's taking ideas from discovery.

I'll also say people throw around the word plagiarism too much these days and are too hung up on certain things. I've stated it before, but even if there are some stylistic simalrities thematically and plot wise the things are completely different. Keep in mind this is also some obscure flash game; if you dig deep enough for anything you'll find simarltiies. Should we just say that any movie with a killer robot or a film with time travel is rip off now?

[Zarm]

I would disagree. It's easy to discount individual aspects as coincidence. But the weight of all of them together points to something far different, to me.

People have accused DS9 of ripping B5 for years on far fewer similarities.


In short, no, I would not advocate 'crying plagiarism' when only the most basic of conceptual similarities exist. I simply disagree that this is a case in which only basic conceptual similarities exist, as I find the parallels to be too specific and too numerous. Just because there's a movie about a time-traveling killer robot doesn't mean that it's ripping off the Terminator. But if the time-traveling killer robot needs to be covered in real flesh in order to time travel, arrives naked, and after it gets clothes, wears a leather jacket and sunglasses while riding around on a motorcycle, then I'd call it a rip-off.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I don't mean this in an insulting way, but did you even watch episode 5? Like in context other than the tardigrade nothing is similar.

[Zarm]

I did not. I've read reviews and synopses, but my context is purely research-based. (You know that I am not claiming that Discovery is based on this game, right? Only that aspects were liberally 'borrowed' in forming elements of Discovery, then subsequently built off of. In short, that ideas were plagiarized/lazily derived, not the entire show out of whole cloth).

That said, while I am sufficiently convinced by the images, I recognize that in context of viewing, it may come off somewhat differently. The concepts and aesthetics just cross my 'too many coincidences to be coincidence' threshold, even if that doesn't necessary go deeper than imagery and the basic concept of Ripper. (Considering that the giant tardigrade was originally going to have a very different role- as a Starfleet department head without teleporting connection, it could even be that the writers needed a last-second sub for the budget-nixed idea, googled tardigrades, and stumbled on the game... and, up against the clock, adopted a few of those ideas for his re-writes. (That being, of course, pure speculation).

Or, it could be a very massive set of coincidences and parallel designs all happening to cluster together. Maybe tardigrades naturally look best in blues, the current social environment predisposes creators to cast certain ethnic types in various roles in sci-fi, a blue field with small blue motes dancing in it happens to be a universal medium for depicting galactic teleportation, and a giant blue tardigrade teleprompter floating in space is just a natural point to come to once you've come up with the idea of a giant tardigrade (which naturally looks best in blue). I mean, stranger things have happened. Right now, I'm just not convinced that that's the most likely explanation.

(And, full disclosure, I actively dislike Discovery and see it as lazily written and its creators as fundamentally dishonest in their claims, so I'm sure I'm predisposed to gravitate actively toward whichever explanation within the realm of plausibility happens to put Discovery in the worst light.)

[LSD Jellyfish]

Not to drag out an argument, but after watching episode 6+7 I think it's more ridiculous because they continue it in something completely different.

Anyways, episode 6+7 were both great "stand alone" episodes. Loved to see Mudd return in both a comedi and horrifying way, and the development Micheal and co got during that.

[ShinGi]

The new Star Trek movie might be directed by Quentin Tarantino

https://movieweb.com/new-star-trek-movi ... jj-abrams/

[Dawsbfiremind]

The new Star Trek movie might be directed by Quentin Tarantino

https://movieweb.com/new-star-trek-movi ... jj-abrams/

[Zarm]

As a friend said, Star Trek is having an identity crisis. I think, much like Superman, its current owners are a bit embarrassed by it, and what they perceive as it's 'cheesy' nature the way that it has been at its most iconic. So, they are trying to update it by making it more realistic and grounded (which is ironic, considering that both are supposed to be divorced from the ordinary and/or modern~day) and make it darker, edgier, more in line with modern media trends, and otherwise 'rehabilitated' into something they believe will be acceptable for modern audiences- also getting big names as casting stunts to try and have a broader general appeal. In the process, they're losing much of the core spirit of the property as most fans understand it, and causing controversy and dissatisfaction with the fan base, but are succeeding in bringing in the general casual audience... though not necessarily in sufficient numbers to be profitable based on the large amounts of money they're spending as part of their attempts to glitz things up.

(Notably, Discovery, operating on a different profit model, may well be finding its profitability, and is finding acceptance in at least some of the fanbase, so the analogy is more universally accurate with the movies than with TV- but even the TV show has shown evidence of both trends to a lesser and less-universal degree.)

Anyhow, that's why it wouldn't surprise me if they got Tarantino to direct. And actually, that might not be so bad. Justin Lin was the 'Fast and the Furious guy', but he was also a Star Trek fan and delivered- for my money- a film more faithful to the spirit of Star Trek and overall better in story and character than the two films made by JJ Abrams, who on the surface seemed like a fitting genre director. Tarantino might also surprise us with an approach outside his usual genre.

[Tohosaurus]

Perhaps "despite" being a Trek fan, I've enjoyed the reboot series so far (even if I'd rather they not reused a character assortment we'd already had). To me, the best Trek is the more dialogue heavy TV series. Movies by their format could be more adventure-y as that's where the big CGI budget can be used. So I don't need the movies to also be a philosophical or complex as an episode of TNG. It'll be cool to see where Tarantino would take Trek, although I do wonder if this would be some kind of reboot or what. Zarm is probably correct that Paramout should sort through what they'd like Star Trek to be versus what it is to its fans and general population. Sure, even if I like big adventure Trek movies, they don't have to be a big budget competitor to Guardians of the Galaxy. Interstellar wasn't and people loved it (ironically Interstellar, like Star Trek, was from Paramount). Could they do a smaller, $100 million Trek movie that simply doesn't need to appeal to the same amount of people as their massive current movies need to?

[ShinGi]

http://deadline.com/2017/12/quentin-tar ... 202231379/

Quentin Tarantino ‘Star Trek’ Firms ‘The Revenant’s Mark L. Smith As Screenwritet

[Kenpachiro Hirata]

Tarantino's Star Trek sounds like it could be at least interesting and entertaining.
As long as it's not part of the horrible JJ series, of course.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Tarintinos Star Trek could be great, as long as he takes it seriously, and doesn’t make it super violent. A lot of people attribute tarintino to being a violent director, and it’s true, but really his best skill is writing dialogue and making tense scenes. For that reason, as long as Tarintino is controlled to an extent, he’d be an amazing Star Trek director or script writer. Tarintino is also flat out a nerd so yeah.

Anyways, I’m almost done with TNG, I’m at the tail end of season 6, where Riker was abducted and tricked into thinking he’s crazy. I’m curious what everyone’s favorite and least favorite TNG episodes are.

I still also need to catchup on discovery. I think it has potential, as long as they change up the formula.

[Zarm]

Dang. Favorite and least favorite TNGs... how long you got? You definitely just named one of them- my wife and I were just talking about it the other day. (Actually, Schims, too- there's just something about Riker getting abducted...)

Assuming I limit myself to Top 10, and leave Best of Both World off because, like the original Gojira, I know it and its significance so well that I don't even know what my objective opinion is...

Top 10 (in no particular order):
Darmok
The Inner Light
Where Silence Has Lease
Remember Me
Yesterday's Enterprise
The Nth Degree
The Next Phase
Frame of Mind
Attached
All Good Things


Bottom 10 (in no particular order):
Who Watches the Watchers
Pen Pals
Homeward
Half A Life
Suddenly Human
The Outcast
Man of the People
Aquiel
Force of Nature
Up the Long Ladder (My pick for worst of TNG)

[Kenpachiro Hirata]

The Inner Light - one of the most favorite.
Sub Rosa - one of the most useless and boring.

[Tohosaurus]

Tarintinos Star Trek could be great, as long as he takes it seriously, and doesn’t make it super violent. A lot of people attribute tarintino to being a violent director, and it’s true, but really his best skill is writing dialogue and making tense scenes. For that reason, as long as Tarintino is controlled to an extent, he’d be an amazing Star Trek director or script writer. Tarintino is also flat out a nerd so yeah.

Anyways, I’m almost done with TNG, I’m at the tail end of season 6, where Riker was abducted and tricked into thinking he’s crazy. I’m curious what everyone’s favorite and least favorite TNG episodes are.

I still also need to catchup on discovery. I think it has potential, as long as they change up the formula.

I think Tarantino's power as a famous and beloved director would give him lots of creative freedom, but I don't think Paramount would let him go full R on a main series Trek movie. Guess we don't know though. I agree with you on Tarantino being a great director on this.

For TNG, the episode where they need to determine the "humanity" of Data, or sentience if you will, is incredibly powerful to me. Don't get Trek'd out, but when you're looking to start a new Trek series go for DS9. It's probably the most unique series.

[eabaker]

Tarintinos Star Trek could be great, as long as he takes it seriously, and doesn’t make it super violent. A lot of people attribute tarintino to being a violent director, and it’s true, but really his best skill is writing dialogue and making tense scenes. For that reason, as long as Tarintino is controlled to an extent, he’d be an amazing Star Trek director or script writer. Tarintino is also flat out a nerd so yeah.

Anyways, I’m almost done with TNG, I’m at the tail end of season 6, where Riker was abducted and tricked into thinking he’s crazy. I’m curious what everyone’s favorite and least favorite TNG episodes are.

I still also need to catchup on discovery. I think it has potential, as long as they change up the formula.

I think Tarantino's power as a famous and beloved director would give him lots of creative freedom, but I don't think Paramount would let him go full R on a main series Trek movie. Guess we don't know though. I agree with you on Tarantino being a great director on this.

For TNG, the episode where they need to determine the "humanity" of Data, or sentience if you will, is incredibly powerful to me. Don't get Trek'd out, but when you're looking to start a new Trek series go for DS9. It's probably the most unique series.

All of the paranoia about Tarantino making some kind of ultra-violent, profanity-laden Trek movie seems to be rooted in the counterintuitive notion that Tarantino doesn't understand or appreciate genre.

[Tohosaurus]

Well it's not so much about genre as it is about the Star Trek brand. This would be by far the most mainstream movie Tarantino's ever made (if he even makes it), and other than Jackie Brown he's generally not adapted things so much as made his own movies that were inspired by other movies. I don't really think Tarantino would go do a R movie.

[Zarm]

All of the paranoia about Tarantino making some kind of ultra-violent, profanity-laden Trek movie seems to be rooted in the counterintuitive notion that Tarantino doesn't understand or appreciate genre.

To be fair, we've already got an ultra-violent, profanity-laden Trek show which seems to be doing quite well in many quarters- and it is the follow-up to a far-more-violent-and-profanity-laden-than-their-predecessors trilogy of films that were already pushing the previous Trek envelope. So such a theoretical trend would be pretty consistent with the trajectory 21st century Trek is taking.

Cynicism and sarcasm aside, for my money, the most Trek-like entry in the franchise we've had since Voyager ended (or certainly since Enterprise) was Star Trek Beyond, which, while far from perfect, did a much better job of embodying Star Trek's ideals, ensemble style, and spirit than anything else in the last decade. (Again, in my opinion). And that was from Justin Lin, the Fast and the Furious guy. Everyone had the same fears, seeing the distinctly non-Trek style of his typical films... but he was a fan, and demonstrated that he could do what any great director can: make more than one style of movie, depending on what the material requires. I'm sure that a director of Tarantino's caliber could do the same; make a film appropriate tot he genre and material, not just create a Trek-skinned clone of his previous films or house-style.