official Gay/Homosexual Debate Thread

[Mitchal]

Rember when you played The Sims, and it was going so well, you had a nice house, payed your bills, lots of friends, great life?

And then you went to bed one night, came back and you forgot to pause the game, and everything went to shit. The bills are piled up, friends gone, green fumes rising from the dozens of plates scattered around the house?

God forgot to pause his game.

[omgitsgodzilla]

[One of the most glorious walls of text ever written on a forum, ever]

Dude. This. This so much. I only wish I could argue this well, that was brilliant.

[tymon]

^Yeah, that was some epic win wasn't it? I have a friend who's so ridiculously arrogant with his spirituality ("I know the truth" etc) as well as homophobic, and I almost feel like reading CD's post aloud to him.

[Cimmerian Dragon]

Thanks guys. I was afraid that I might be going overboard with all that rambling, but I just needed to get my feelings out all at once, and in as clear a fashion as possible.

Also, I have to sig you, at least for a little while.

[omgitsgodzilla]

You've earned the right to brag a little, that was fantastic.

[Legionmaster]

Well, to be fair, CD's post assumes that empirical evidence and logical reasoning are the best ways to gain knowledge. Not everyone in the world agrees with this (many of them being religious folk).

[Cimmerian Dragon]

That's true. I hate a philosophy that denies empiricism and logic with every ounce of my being, but I accept that many folks do not. I spent years studying (yes, formal study) Western and Eastern philosophy. Believe me, I quickly learned to accept their existence, and if that's the way they choose to view the world, more power to them.

However, those folks who don't believe in logic and reason have no business in a rational debate. Appeals to in-falsifiable concepts cannot be taken into account in such a context. They are, however, free to discuss these matters in whatever terms they prefer, if the conversation is wholly based upon those standards.

Basically, don't bring faith to a reason-fight, unless you're prepared to play by those rules. I don't go into a Sunday School and scream at the children that the Earth is Billions of years old, so don't come into the public school and tell them it's 5,000 years old. Don't tell me that something is a "fact" unless you can prove it objectively. If you cannot do that, don't make the claim. Tell us what you "believe" and what you've been taught, and how you feel, and everything else. Great, I would love to hear about it. Just please, don't start confusing faith and facts. Who knows, faith may very well lead someone to the transcendent "Truth" about life and all it's complexities, but it does not lead to rational facts.

Spirituality is VHS, and Science is BetaMax. People base their lives around whichever fits their heart best, but they can't pull a cassette out of one, and expect it to play in the other.

Let Bob watch his videos in peace. Don't tell him he's evil for picking his standard. Don't throttle him because your tapes won't play for him. Most importantly, don't burn his tapes and smash his player because they aren't compatible with the equipment that you inherited from your Grandma. Just smile at Bob, and be on your way, secure in the knowledge that what you have chosen works for you. That's called being a civilized human being, and whether you've built your life on a foundation of science or reason, being civilized is something that we can all do together.

[Living Corpse]

How is this even a debate? Sexual orientation is a biological design, something people back then did not understand nor how it worked when they wrote the Bible, the Krahm and all those other holy scripters. Back then you asked people how come birds can fly and people can't and they, without knowing the real reason, would respond with "God/Buddiah/Ahli/Zeus did it." It's pretty much today's equivalent of joking "a wizard did it." They pretty much blamed homosexuality on the Devil because they did not understand that this was something cause by one's biology.

[wataru]

How is this even a debate? Sexual orientation is a biological design, something people back then did not understand nor how it worked when they wrote the Bible, the Krahm and all those other holy scripters.

Do you mean Qur'an?

[Living Corpse]

Don't know, don't care.

[wataru]

Don't know, don't care.

Muslims do. Don't piss off the Muslims man! Especially the gay ones!

[SuperSaiyan4Godzilla]

Don't know, don't care.

You should have respect for other people's beliefs and worldviews, even if you don't agree.

[kaiju_wars]

Don't know, don't care.

You should have respect for other people's beliefs and worldviews, even if you don't agree.

So true, but sadly in today's society, people who actually do that are few and far between...

[natevirus]

Don't know, don't care.

You should have respect for other people's beliefs and worldviews, even if you don't agree.

If only the world... if only...

[eabaker]

Don't know, don't care.

You should have respect for other people's beliefs and worldviews, even if you don't agree.

See, should you, though? I'm up in the air on this.

Why? Because people ACT based on their beliefs and worldviews. And the actions that they take have an impact on other people.

How far does that respect need to go? When lives are being lost because of supersition, is there a point where a rational, ethical person HAS to stand up and say, "No, screw your safety blanket, because you're poisoning the well for the rest of us"?

Marvin Minske has made some pretty strong arguments about the damage that is done to social evolution by allowing religion to effect policy.

These aren't rheotical questions. I have no solid opinion on this matter, just a lot of thoughts, and a lot of anger at both theists and atheists when either is too quick to judge.

[natevirus]

Don't know, don't care.

You should have respect for other people's beliefs and worldviews, even if you don't agree.

See, should you, though? I'm up in the air on this.

Why? Because people ACT based on their beliefs and worldviews. And the actions that they take have an impact on other people.

How far does that respect need to go? When lives are being lost because of supersition, is there a point where a rational, ethical person HAS to stand up and say, "No, screw your safety blanket, because you're poisoning the well for the rest of us"?

Marvin Minske has made some pretty strong arguments about the damage that is done to social evolution by allowing religion to effect policy.

These aren't rheotical questions. I have no solid opinion on this matter, just a lot of thoughts, and a lot of anger at both theists and atheists when either is too quick to judge.

As a "theist", I guess, I too have a lot of anger at both the theists and atheists.
I normally just say "believe what you want to believe, just DON'T FORCE IT ON ME OR OTHERS."

[gatorzilla]

I am a Christian. I have been all my life.

That said it is not my place to judge others including gays or tell them what they can or cant do.
The best I can do is be the best person I can be and be strong with my faith and let others worry about themselves and worry about my life.
Also respect everyone regardless of differences (although I admit I need work on that with some things.)

[bearijuana]

I guess you could say I'm bisexual, but not inherently so. At some of the partys I've been to I get so wasted that I dont remember what happened. Many times I have awoken to find myself in bed with numerous men and women, and other times people have taken pictures of the night before that I cant remember of me doing the dirty with men and women. So I guess I'm an exception because I'm not turned on by men at all but I've had willingly good times with them because of being so wasted I barely know whats going on. I dont feel good when I find out when it happens... I dig chicks. But I can't deny that I have had sex with other men and women, just not knowingly at the time. I have no problem with homosexuals but I dont know how I should describe myself because sober I would never have sex with a man.

[Berzerkgodzilla]

Having sex with men does not inherently mean you are homosexual or bisexual. Especially if the only reason it happens is because you're blasted and don't realize what you're doing. Bisexuality is the attraction (Sexual or romantic) to both genders, and if you're saying your not turned on by men and just women, and would never have sex with a man unless your drunk, I'd say your hetero.

[Jomei]

So, as long as you say you're not attracted to the same sex, drunken sex with other men is still straight?

All those closeted, anti-gay politicians are going to be giddy.