Election 2012 Discussion Thread

[NSZ]

@Bret: Aren't there supposed to be laws against that sort of thing?

[Bret]

@Bret: Aren't there supposed to be laws against that sort of thing?

Just to top off the skreeonk you, political supporters sit in the garage next door to the voting building and hand out pamphlets whenever someone goes in to vote.

[Cimmerian Dragon]

^ That may be the single fact that best illustrates everything wrong with the political situation in our country.

We were supposed to be a nation of individualists and free-thinkers, and the modern system does nothing but bolster the herd mentality.

[Living Corpse]

My state doesn't even allow me to vote unless I am listed as a Democrat or Republican.

The hell?

[Tohosaurus]

^ That may be the single fact that best illustrates everything wrong with the political situation in our country.

We were supposed to be a nation of individualists and free-thinkers, and the modern system does nothing but bolster the herd mentality.

*nods*

My state doesn't even allow me to vote unless I am listed as a Democrat or Republican.

That ... how can that be? What state is this?

I'd vote Green Party if we had a candidate. My vote wouldn't count anyway since my state always goes Republican. Not that I like Democrats, but in the long run the poor and middle class do better under their policies. You're kind of a dupe if you vote Republican and aren't a millionaire.

Roseanne Barr for prezzie?

[Bret]

Pennsylvania. If I recall some other states have the same laws.

[Tohosaurus]

Pennsylvania. If I recall some other states have the same laws.

Looked at some stuff briefly and wow. Every day it's looking more and more like powers that be is taking over without being realizing it.

[Jomei]

Naturally, I mean a real candidate, Tohosaurus. xD I don't like a lot of (right-wing) Libertarian policies, but it's impressive how far Ron Paul has gotten. An equivalent left-libertarian would have my support for sure.

[Bret]

The thing is there are so many problems for a third party candidate to get put up for a ballet. The best start would be to get rid of those restrictions.

[Legionmaster]

I'd vote Green Party if we had a candidate. My vote wouldn't count anyway since my state always goes Republican.

My state doesn't even allow me to vote unless I am listed as a Democrat or Republican.

That's just in primaries, bro.

It's also really amusing when Democrats call Republicans duping brainwashers and pawns of the rich. Because Democrats are too, and spouting such mudslinging is just joining the rank and file of modern American political "discourse."

[TheSecondComing]

In the electoral college system, a Republican vote for president doesn't mean jack in California the same way a Democratic vote for president doesn't mean jack in Texas. I think it should really be eliminated.

[Chris55]

You guys could all vote for the Green M&M

[Cimmerian Dragon]

skreeonk that noise.

Let's hear it for the Blues brother:

[Jomei]

I'd vote Green Party if we had a candidate. My vote wouldn't count anyway since my state always goes Republican.

My state doesn't even allow me to vote unless I am listed as a Democrat or Republican.

That's just in primaries, bro.

It's also really amusing when Democrats call Republicans duping brainwashers and pawns of the rich. Because Democrats are too, and spouting such mudslinging is just joining the rank and file of modern American political "discourse."

Missed the part where I said I'm not a fan of the Democrats, either, did ya? But let's be fair--you don't see horseshit like Herman Cain's 999 plan coming from too many democrats. Republicans have made it abundantly clear that their number one agenda (besides cock-blocking every Obama move almost indiscriminately) is to make sure the rich pay as little taxes as possible. This means they intend to balance the budget on working and middle class people. So, you see Republicans going after programs that help low-income students attend college and planned parenthood, then trying to privatize Medicare, etc. while also trying to lower taxes on the very rich to their lowest rates since the 1930s. The differences between the parties may be small, but small differences can have major impacts on the lives of people who are already struggling to get by.

I am REALLY not a fan of Obama, but he's the only candidate that seems to even be on planet earth. Of course, we're talking about two wings of the business party, but one wing has gone completely insane.

In the electoral college system, a Republican vote for president doesn't mean jack in California the same way a Democratic vote for president doesn't mean jack in Texas. I think it should really be eliminated.

Definitely. And we need campaign financing reform like crazy.

[Legionmaster]

Missed the part where I said I'm not a fan of the Democrats, either, did ya?

It's cute that you automatically thought I was calling you out, because I wasn't.

But let's be fair--you don't see horseshit like Herman Cain's 999 plan coming from too many democrats.

I could pick out any number of ridiculous "plans" started by anyone from any party. That's an irrelevant point.

Republicans have made it abundantly clear that their number one agenda (besides cock-blocking every Obama move almost indiscriminately) is to make sure the rich pay as little taxes as possible. This means they intend to balance the budget on working and middle class people. So, you see Republicans going after programs that help low-income students attend college and planned parenthood, then trying to privatize Medicare, etc. while also trying to lower taxes on the very rich to their lowest rates since the 1930s. The differences between the parties may be small, but small differences can have major impacts on the lives of people who are already struggling to get by.

Ah, the post of a person who actually doesn't understand business or economics at all (because starting any economic discussion with class warfar BS already sets you off down the wrong path).

Anyone making over $100,000 (which isn't a whole lot) are already being taxed at rates 2-3 times more than anyone else on Federal Income Taxes. On top of this, a recent review of the Federal Income Tax showed that the top quintile (20% in terms of income) has been paying about 23% of the total tax intake, while the bottom quintile has payed about 18% (ie. not paying their share of taxable income). Also keep in mind that business owners get taxed through their businesses as well. So say Joe Smallbusinessowner (his family got that name at Ellis Island) makes $120,000 a year. Not only is he getting taxed in an upper tax bracket, but the business he owns (and invests most of his money back into) is also getting taxed. Also keep in mind that Joe isn't one of the very very few public images of "rich" people who smoke fancy cigars and get driven around in Rolls Royces by butlers named Bitterman. Joe works 60-80 hour weeks. Joe doesn't have days off. If Joe takes a vacation, he brings his netbook to keep tabs on the business from afar. How is it fair that Joe gets both his personal income and business profits taxed MORE because poor people can't buy nice things? (Fun fact: poor people aren't supposed to buy nice things. That's what makes them poor. They aren't entitled to things middle class people get because they can't afford them. This is partly what caused the housing collapse.) It's ridiculous. Now Joe has to close his business, because he can't afford these new taxes and can't qualify for the tax breaks that Obama wants to give him (people forget that Obama is all for lowering taxes on business too). Now Joe and his four employees are out of a job. Now picture this happening with the millions of small business owners across the country and you see why Obama has no clue what's going on. He has no idea who his policies are actually hurting. You can't even hope to create jobs when you're killing the job creators.

Oregon tried to tax the super rich a few years ago. You know what happened? A large percentage of them just moved out of Oregon, costing the state millions of dollars in lost revenue.

Of course, we wouldn't need to try so hard to balance the budget if Obama hadn't spent trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars of pork. He doesn't realize that you can't make money by spending more money. That's not how math works.

Obama is also a 1%er. Just sayin'.

[anguirusnut94]

I say we make it ilegal to not vote and then we do away with the electoral college completely. Throw it out and let the people decide by their numbers. And everyone who votes (which, if I have my way will be everyone) has gotten a say, so nobody can say that they didn't get a say. I also think that senate seats and congressional seats shold be a four year term and that the congress should have only two members from each state, same as the Senate. Also, the American public should be outraged by the idea that seems to be brought out by many candidates today- "I'm better than my opponent because he's just a 'socialist/ communist/ European Capitalist and you don't need or want that so vote for me." We are not machines to be set! We are human beings! We may think for ourselves! We don't need some whack-job politician telling us how we should feel!

That's my two cents... which are really only worth about 1/13th of a cent, thanks to inflation.

[Jomei]

@legionmaster
Well, you've tipped your hand with phrases like "class warfar[e]" and "killing job creators." xD You'd make Eric Cantor proud.

Taxes were higher on the rich during Clinton's term, and there weren't mass closings of small business owners like in this ridiculous scenario you imagine. In fact there were more jobs. Of course, for the Republicans, all this talk of small businesses is just rhetorical nonsense so they can trump up "small business tax cuts" that, when examined, are clearly most beneficial to financial firms who rely on capital rather than labor. In other words, it doesn't really create jobs so much as pad pockets. Score one more for the financial sector, consultants, and law firms!

[Bret]

I know almost nothing about taxes and business, but wouldn't it be better to punish the big businesses who send jobs over seas by taking away their tax breaks and to reform the tax tax system? It seems like the tax system we have now is horribly inefficient.

[Jomei]

We also need to levy a real financial transaction tax and bring the capital gains tax back up.

[wataru]

On top of this, a recent review of the Federal Income Tax showed that the top quintile (20% in terms of income) has been paying about 23% of the total tax intake, while the bottom quintile has payed about 18% (ie. not paying their share of taxable income).

Do you have a link to this?

Of course the top are paying more of the grand total of taxes. The poor and middle class are the ones with the high unemployment figures.