US Elections 2020

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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Godzilla21 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:59 am

Gerdzerl wrote:What I want, off the top of my head, however it would be accomplished, is an America without any of the following:

• American nationalism/patriotism


How would you go about enforcing this?
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Spirit Ghidorah 2010 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:25 am

Godzilla21 wrote:
Gerdzerl wrote:What I want, off the top of my head, however it would be accomplished, is an America without any of the following:

• American nationalism/patriotism


How would you go about enforcing this?

Not Gerdzerl, but we can start by getting rid of the Pledge of Allegiance. Not making it optional, but just getting rid of it. Even when I was a kid, it struck me as creepy and cultish, like something out of The Prisoner. Yeah, it's technically been optional since the 40's, but many teachers don't know that, and students certainly don't know that.
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Darth Kiryu » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:16 am

I'm no fan of the pledge either, but every country could do with a little bit of patriotism. Just as an example, world sports tournaments would be a bit dull without some national pride.
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Breakdown » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:17 am

I really don't understand what's wrong with patriotism, lol. Y'all treat it like it's this evil thing when it's just about being proud of and supporting your country. Nationalism and Patriotism aren't the same thing and people really, really need to stop conflating the two.
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Gawdziller1954 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:46 am

Breakdown wrote:I really don't understand what's wrong with patriotism, lol. Y'all treat it like it's this evil thing when it's just about being proud of and supporting your country. Nationalism and Patriotism aren't the same thing and people really, really need to stop conflating the two.

Because loving your own country is EEEEVVILLL!!!!
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Darth Kiryu » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:12 am

Gawdziller1954 wrote:
Breakdown wrote:I really don't understand what's wrong with patriotism, lol. Y'all treat it like it's this evil thing when it's just about being proud of and supporting your country. Nationalism and Patriotism aren't the same thing and people really, really need to stop conflating the two.

Because loving your own country is EEEEVVILLL!!!!

Gonna need ya to calm down there, Mermaidman. :P

I'll be good now and let this get back to topic. :angel:
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:10 pm

Gerdzerl wrote:
Darth Kiryu wrote:
So in closing, all I want to ask is this: what kind of America do you want, Gerd? I've seen a lot of complaining and can share or at least understand multiple sentiments you've posited, but I haven't seen many suggestions for solutions. Let's talk.


What I want, off the top of my head, however it would be accomplished, is an America without any of the following:

• White supremacy / White nationalism / Neo-Nazis / the Alt-Right
• Capitalism (or at least Capitalism in its current state)
• Homophobia
• Transphobia
• Misogyny
• Ableism
• Ageism
• Anti-Semitism
• Islamophobia
• Pedophiles
• Rapists
• Incest
• Beastiality
• Giant corporations having significant influence on politics, especially in regards to copyright and the environment
• Creationism and intelligent design being taught in public schools
• Religion having significant influence on politics
• An outdated, practically useless education system that teaches and reinforces harmful behaviors
• Police brutality and systemic racism in law enforcement
• Traditional gender roles and norms being emphasized and/or enforced over non-traditional ones
• Conspiracy theorists/theories being taken seriously and having influence over politics
• Demonization of drug addicts / The War on Drugs
• Demonization of sex work / Slut-shaming
• Demonization of mental illnesses and stigmatization mental health in general
• The idea of American Exceptionalism
• American nationalism/patriotism
• The weird, overly reverent hero worship / fetishization of the military and service members

And what I would want added/fixed:
• Free healthcare / Medicare for All
• Green New Deal
• Website staff/algorithms actually cracking down on toxic behavior instead of just letting it roam free
• White supremacy and Neo-Nazi rhetoric and activism being made completely illegal on every level
• Gun control

Again, this all just off the top of my head.

A lot of this stuff, obviously cannot be completely abolished, just out of sheer statistics, but I don`t disagree with you.

What is very funny to me though, and while of course times are contextual, is that during the 1940`s and 50`s there were many great Government infrastructure projects and social programs. People want to keep saying that it't can' be done, or that its impossible, as an excuse to lack for change.

Americans in general, have been completely inundated to believe that Universal Healthcare/Medicare for All, is some sort of impossibility, yet I currently live in a country where it is completely doable, and is completely feasible in many countries. Likewise, with gun violence, Australia had a ton of gun violence in the past, and put a ban on assault weapons and guns, and since then, the violent gun rate and massacres have gone significantly down. Americans have unfortunately developed a defeatist attitude, where in they are taught to believe that things that are completely impossible are so.
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Rhedosaurus » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:42 am

Gerdzerl wrote:
Darth Kiryu wrote:
So in closing, all I want to ask is this: what kind of America do you want, Gerd? I've seen a lot of complaining and can share or at least understand multiple sentiments you've posited, but I haven't seen many suggestions for solutions. Let's talk.


What I want, off the top of my head, however it would be accomplished, is an America without any of the following:

• White supremacy / White nationalism / Neo-Nazis / the Alt-Right
• Capitalism (or at least Capitalism in its current state)
• Homophobia
• Transphobia
• Misogyny
• Ableism
• Ageism
• Anti-Semitism
• Islamophobia
• Pedophiles
• Rapists
• Incest
• Beastiality
• Giant corporations having significant influence on politics, especially in regards to copyright and the environment
• Creationism and intelligent design being taught in public schools
• Religion having significant influence on politics
• An outdated, practically useless education system that teaches and reinforces harmful behaviors
• Police brutality and systemic racism in law enforcement
• Traditional gender roles and norms being emphasized and/or enforced over non-traditional ones
• Conspiracy theorists/theories being taken seriously and having influence over politics
• Demonization of drug addicts / The War on Drugs
• Demonization of sex work / Slut-shaming
• Demonization of mental illnesses and stigmatization mental health in general
• The idea of American Exceptionalism
• American nationalism/patriotism
• The weird, overly reverent hero worship / fetishization of the military and service members

And what I would want added/fixed:
• Free healthcare / Medicare for All
• Green New Deal
• Website staff/algorithms actually cracking down on toxic behavior instead of just letting it roam free
• White supremacy and Neo-Nazi rhetoric and activism being made completely illegal on every level
• Gun control

Again, this all just off the top of my head.


By reading your list, you sound like a democratic socialist via Sanders, if not a semi-communist who whats a Brave New World style government.

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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Living Corpse » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:46 am

Breakdown wrote:I really don't understand what's wrong with patriotism, lol. Y'all treat it like it's this evil thing when it's just about being proud of and supporting your country. Nationalism and Patriotism aren't the same thing and people really, really need to stop conflating the two.


Thats the problem though, a lot of people who think they are pateioric don't realize they are being nationalistic.
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby GodzillaBurgh » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:48 am

I don't get political online, but I just had enough of waking up to a nation that is so divided, that nobody could go outside and mingle with people that can't even trust or love one another because of ethnicity, or beliefs.
"Just as you distrust us, so we distrust others as well. It's wrong. We're all human. As humans we are responsible to each other. We are related. Refuse us, and you will abandon your brothers. We must learn to help each other."
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:43 am

Rhedosaurus wrote:
Gerdzerl wrote:
Darth Kiryu wrote:
So in closing, all I want to ask is this: what kind of America do you want, Gerd? I've seen a lot of complaining and can share or at least understand multiple sentiments you've posited, but I haven't seen many suggestions for solutions. Let's talk.


What I want, off the top of my head, however it would be accomplished, is an America without any of the following:

• White supremacy / White nationalism / Neo-Nazis / the Alt-Right
• Capitalism (or at least Capitalism in its current state)
• Homophobia
• Transphobia
• Misogyny
• Ableism
• Ageism
• Anti-Semitism
• Islamophobia
• Pedophiles
• Rapists
• Incest
• Beastiality
• Giant corporations having significant influence on politics, especially in regards to copyright and the environment
• Creationism and intelligent design being taught in public schools
• Religion having significant influence on politics
• An outdated, practically useless education system that teaches and reinforces harmful behaviors
• Police brutality and systemic racism in law enforcement
• Traditional gender roles and norms being emphasized and/or enforced over non-traditional ones
• Conspiracy theorists/theories being taken seriously and having influence over politics
• Demonization of drug addicts / The War on Drugs
• Demonization of sex work / Slut-shaming
• Demonization of mental illnesses and stigmatization mental health in general
• The idea of American Exceptionalism
• American nationalism/patriotism
• The weird, overly reverent hero worship / fetishization of the military and service members

And what I would want added/fixed:
• Free healthcare / Medicare for All
• Green New Deal
• Website staff/algorithms actually cracking down on toxic behavior instead of just letting it roam free
• White supremacy and Neo-Nazi rhetoric and activism being made completely illegal on every level
• Gun control

Again, this all just off the top of my head.


By reading your list, you sound like a democratic socialist via Sanders, if not a semi-communist who whats a Brave New World style government.

At least 40% of that stuff on the list shouldn’t be something controversial to be disagreeing with what is being said. A lot of those statements are also socially based, Little if anything, indicates or advocates for communism or any sort of different governmental system then the one America currently has.

GodzillaBurgh wrote:I don't get political online, but I just had enough of waking up to a nation that is so divided, that nobody could go outside and mingle with people that can't even trust or love one another because of ethnicity, or beliefs.


America has always had extremely ideological divides pretty much since the nations inception. It’s not too new.

I’ve only gotten more political online because I don’t really have an outlet to express myself politically in the American system. There are times, where my job recently has had me to describe America and other possibly controversial points and I definitely tone it down. Additionally I’ve met a lot of Americans as part of my job, as I’m helping out orientations so then I also tone it down.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Rhedosaurus » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:49 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
Rhedosaurus wrote:
Gerdzerl wrote:
What I want, off the top of my head, however it would be accomplished, is an America without any of the following:

• White supremacy / White nationalism / Neo-Nazis / the Alt-Right
• Capitalism (or at least Capitalism in its current state)
• Homophobia
• Transphobia
• Misogyny
• Ableism
• Ageism
• Anti-Semitism
• Islamophobia
• Pedophiles
• Rapists
• Incest
• Beastiality
• Giant corporations having significant influence on politics, especially in regards to copyright and the environment
• Creationism and intelligent design being taught in public schools
• Religion having significant influence on politics
• An outdated, practically useless education system that teaches and reinforces harmful behaviors
• Police brutality and systemic racism in law enforcement
• Traditional gender roles and norms being emphasized and/or enforced over non-traditional ones
• Conspiracy theorists/theories being taken seriously and having influence over politics
• Demonization of drug addicts / The War on Drugs
• Demonization of sex work / Slut-shaming
• Demonization of mental illnesses and stigmatization mental health in general
• The idea of American Exceptionalism
• American nationalism/patriotism
• The weird, overly reverent hero worship / fetishization of the military and service members

And what I would want added/fixed:
• Free healthcare / Medicare for All
• Green New Deal
• Website staff/algorithms actually cracking down on toxic behavior instead of just letting it roam free
• White supremacy and Neo-Nazi rhetoric and activism being made completely illegal on every level
• Gun control

Again, this all just off the top of my head.


By reading your list, you sound like a democratic socialist via Sanders, if not a semi-communist who whats a Brave New World style government.

At least 40% of that stuff on the list shouldn’t be something controversial to be disagreeing with what is being said. A lot of those statements are also socially based, Little if anything, indicates or advocates for communism or any sort of different governmental system then the one America currently has



Perhaps the terms, Neo-Marxist or libertarian socialist would have been better. And most of he is asking for is so against human nature that it can't be done. You can not totally reshape mankind to the extent he is. And even if you did, how long would it last before it all went down?

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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Chrispy_G » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:51 am

What is this? End patriotism? Ban the pledge of allegiance?

Conservatives get banned on social media, "straight white men" get blamed for all of the evils of the world all over the media which is 99% completely towing the liberal/democrat/socialist line.

If a mass shooter is a white guy and or Republican, it gets shot-gunned everywhere....if a shooter in any situation is a person with Democrat views(Like the Ohio one) or is a Muslim, or a Trans person, the media responds in the opposite.

A white/Republican person doing something evil represents "A problem with all whites/conservatives" yet a Muslim doing something evil is "one person acting alone, don't judge everyone by it"

It is complete and total hypocrisy. The mainstream media coverage of everything is garbage.

Donald Trump would literally walk on water, and the headlines would read "Donald Trump can't swim".

When you have rich celebrities like Bill Maher rooting for recession and economic downturn that would hurt MILLIONS of Americans and give them worse lives....JUST SO it would make Donald Trump look bad and cause him to lose support....you are dealing with a terrible ideology. Sure, Maher has millions in the bank no matter what. He doesn't want US citizens to succeed, he just wants Trump to lose.

Trump Derangement Syndrome and the "Orange Man Bad" mentality have poisoned this country.
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Spirit Ghidorah 2010 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:35 am

Chrispy_G wrote:A white/Republican person doing something evil represents "A problem with all whites/conservatives" yet a Muslim doing something evil is "one person acting alone, don't judge everyone by it"

Play the victim complex more.

Trump enacted a goddamn travel ban after Muslim-perpetrated attacks back in 2016/2017. What was done after the string of "white guy" mass shootings?
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Gawdziller1954 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:25 am

Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote:
Chrispy_G wrote:A white/Republican person doing something evil represents "A problem with all whites/conservatives" yet a Muslim doing something evil is "one person acting alone, don't judge everyone by it"

Play the victim complex more.

Trump enacted a goddamn travel ban after Muslim-perpetrated attacks back in 2016/2017. What was done after the string of "white guy" mass shootings?

Nothing, because nothing can really be done. Gun control doesn't work. On the other hand, banning more potential terrorists from coming to the US from countries that serve as origin points for said terrorists is a good idea, if not flawed.

The dude has a point
Last edited by Gawdziller1954 on Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Chrispy_G » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:30 am

Victim complex? The entirety of the political left is completely based on a victim mentality and on blaming other people for their problems and misfortunes.

Casually ignore the fact that the travel ban also included countries that did not have large Muslim populations.
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Rhedosaurus » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:34 am

Gawdziller1954 wrote:
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote:
Chrispy_G wrote:A white/Republican person doing something evil represents "A problem with all whites/conservatives" yet a Muslim doing something evil is "one person acting alone, don't judge everyone by it"

Play the victim complex more.

Trump enacted a goddamn travel ban after Muslim-perpetrated attacks back in 2016/2017. What was done after the string of "white guy" mass shootings?

Nothing, because nothing can really be done. Gun control doesn't work. On the other hand, banning more potential terrorists from coming to the US from countries that serve as origin points for said terrorists is a good idea, if not flawed.

The dude has a point



I'd like to add a few things as well.

The only way how gun control could work at all is if a country were to enact such measures when guns first appear. This explains why Japan barely has any gun violence, they did just that when firearms first appeared on Japanese soil way back in the samurai era. The U.S.A. has too much of a gun culture dating back the the Revolution, if not sooner, so gun control is wildly impractical.

And let's not forget 3D printed guns made by 3D printers.
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/3d-printed-guns-blueprints

How are you possibly going to enact gun control with a country with 3D printers? Ban 3D printers as well? Good luck with that.

And let's not forget all the illegal guns that come over the U.S.-Mexican border via the drug cartels. You can't have gun control and an open border with a semi-failed, if not an outright failed state.
Last edited by Rhedosaurus on Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Terasawa » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:50 am

Rhedosaurus wrote:How are you possibly going to enact gun control with a country with 3D printers? Ban 3D printers as well? Good luck with that.


This is such a flawed argument. "If we can't stop them all then we might as well not stop any!"
Last edited by Terasawa on Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby _JNavs_ » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:07 am

Chrispy_G wrote:Victim complex? The entirety of the political left is completely based on a victim mentality and on blaming other people for their problems and misfortunes.

Perfectly summed up^
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Re: US Elections 2020

Postby Terasawa » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:18 am

_JNavs_ wrote:
Chrispy_G wrote:Victim complex? The entirety of the political left is completely based on a victim mentality and on blaming other people for their problems and misfortunes.

Perfectly summed up^


Can either of you please give me a detailed breakdown of every single liberal politician in the United States that categorically demonstrates this claim? Thanks.

Edit: Also, I'm unsure how "victim mentality and... blaming other people for their problems and misfortunes" fails to also describe the political party that wants you to believe the reason Joe Trailertrash and his sister-wife don't have jobs is because Latin American immigrants stole it from them. I guess the difference is that I don't blindly categorize every single Republican that way because there's an (R) after the name of the representative.
Last edited by Terasawa on Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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