NECA Godzilla Discussion Thread - 2nd Edition

[Vankor]

Because Bandai only gives us what the japanese fans apparently want (and even then, they seem ok with slowly killing the line). At least neca is trying to getting us stuff we havent had yet, or may not have period.

Fixed it for you.

[Lain Of The Wired]

Because Bandai only gives us what the japanese fans apparently want (and even then, they seem ok with slowly killing the line). At least neca is trying to getting us stuff we havent had yet, or may not have period.

Fixed it for you.

If anything, you ruined it with bad grammar

Anyway, joking aside, NECA IS trying, but The Man is trying to kill their creative process, it seems Toho ONLY wants new molds, featuring designs from the films, which is quite odd that we got a video game design in there.

[Mechagigan]

To be fair, the only things Toho has rejected (that we know of) are things that were either not from the movies or never even happened. As much as I'd like more creative figures like NES (who apparently was hard to get approved too), I'm fine with them sticking to only what was in the films, if that's what they're pushing towards.

[g2vd]

I forget when does 54 come out?

[Kaijunator]

I forget when does 54 come out?

It came out yesterday. NECA's eBay store has it.

[ILL GREEN]

Don't forget that the NES Godzilla game was developed by Toho, so that might explain why Toho was ok with it.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

Amazon has him in stock too. I'll order him tomorrow after I get paid.

[the-killer-wc]

I already ordered him from ebay, man i can not wait until it gets here, that little guy is going to be amazing.

[RandomDeinonychus]

I don't really care about a repainted G'14, but knowing that NECA wanted to break out of the norm and do stuff like HB Godzilla and Ghost Godzilla, only to get shot down for being too creative, is infuriating.

And yet, not in the least is it surprising. I'm getting the sense that Randy doesn't like working with Toho, and I can't blame him there.

To play Devil's Advocate for a moment (and unless I missed it, I don't think anyone phrased it exactly this way yet), I think it has nothing to do with being "too creative" and everything to do with the direction Toho is going with Godzilla. For one thing, it seems they're trying hard to cement Godzilla as a serious character in public consciousness. In decades past they were slightly more willing to allow him to be joke fodder, but now they seem to be trying to walk that back.

They also seem want to shape what people think of when it comes to Godzilla in terms of their movies. That's why they vetoed the idea of ghost Godzilla and HB Godzilla, I bet, especially since the latter is A) seen as cheesy or silly and B) is not their interpretation of the character. I wouldn't be surprised if Toho would also veto a Godzilla 1998 for the same reason, assuming NECA even asked to make it. I also wouldn't be surprised if Toynami's Shogun Godzilla looks more like an actual Godzilla suit than the original figure it's capitalizing on at Toho's insistence rather than any initiative on Toynami's part.

It's still frustrating, though, because it could have been something different. Regardless of whether they're the first articulated version or not we've seen figures of all of NECA's Godzilla line before in some form--but there's never been a HB or Marvel Godzilla that I know of.

[THECRAZEBLING]

I don't really care about a repainted G'14, but knowing that NECA wanted to break out of the norm and do stuff like HB Godzilla and Ghost Godzilla, only to get shot down for being too creative, is infuriating.

And yet, not in the least is it surprising. I'm getting the sense that Randy doesn't like working with Toho, and I can't blame him there.

To play Devil's Advocate for a moment (and unless I missed it, I don't think anyone phrased it exactly this way yet), I think it has nothing to do with being "too creative" and everything to do with the direction Toho is going with Godzilla. For one thing, it seems they're trying hard to cement Godzilla as a serious character in public consciousness. In decades past they were slightly more willing to allow him to be joke fodder, but now they seem to be trying to walk that back.

They also seem want to shape what people think of when it comes to Godzilla in terms of their movies. That's why they vetoed the idea of ghost Godzilla and HB Godzilla, I bet, especially since the latter is A) seen as cheesy or silly and B) is not their interpretation of the character. I wouldn't be surprised if Toho would also veto a Godzilla 1998 for the same reason, assuming NECA even asked to make it.

It's still frustrating, though.

It seems a bit logical by that standard, but still, it is a shame that fans of the HB and Ghost Gojis are being messed with by Toho's views on what they see as a true Godzilla.

[RandomDeinonychus]

It seems a bit logical by that standard, but still, it is a shame that fans of the HB and Ghost Gojis are being messed with by Toho's views on what they see as a true Godzilla.

I mean, I'm just assuming based on patterns Toho has been showing of late. I could always be way off.

[GFAN198423]

It's not a bad theory though, and it would make sense. The franchise has always dipped when people begin to no longer take the character seriously and every time he's rebooted, it's always back to a more serious toned film. Despite Legendary being a versus and the story not being "dark", it's still a serious movie, very little humor, the creatures are dealt with in a mature, adult manner, not like Godzilla '98.

Looking at what Toho's doing with the hotels and everything over there, it does seem like they're trying to keep the momentum Legendary started with bringing the character back into a positive light in the global conscious. This wouldn't last forever, eventually films alone will keep it going and products can branch out into the more "ridiculous" areas again, but it would make sense to focus on keeping people serious about it, that's what'll get people into theaters and support more and more movies and that's first and foremost. Fandom and merchandise has been selling for decades and isn't going anywhere, but continued support for new stories needs help, otherwise we get these 10 year breaks.

If that is their motive, I'm fine with it, I'm not going anywhere, whether NECA does something out of the norm today or a year from now, I'll want it just the same and if anything, it'll probably turn out better in the future than today so it's for the best anyhow.

The only problem could come if NECA was counting on such options to give them opportunities to recycle parts for multiple figures since this common in their business model. HB and Ghost Godzilla would likely be repaints and bashes of parts like NES Godzilla. Even atomic ray 2014 would offer repaint possibilties. Without those options, NECA might lose interest in investing in the license. If you look at their most extensive lines, there's a lot of recycling, especially Predators and Pacific Rim and Terminator. The short lived lines are the ones where you can almost only do new, unique parts every time. Along these lines, NECA could do a 64/65 Godzilla, 73/74/75 Godziila or 99/2000 Godzilla just by swapping a head or making a slight difference in skintone.

[miguelnuva]

HB Godzilla is who got me into the series and I know around here he was actually the most popular pre 98 Godzilla for the kids, its abshame Toho would block his figure.

[Kaijugriffey]

To be fair, the only things Toho has rejected (that we know of) are things that were either not from the movies or never even happened. As much as I'd like more creative figures like NES (who apparently was hard to get approved too), I'm fine with them sticking to only what was in the films, if that's what they're pushing towards.

Toho is a very conservative company that is very careful about shielding it's IP. They are not going to allow a relatively new licensing partner to introduce the first public appearence of anything regarding their characters. Honestly most License Holders will do the same. The problem becomes if Toho allows NECA to introduce a new character via their products then they can run into ownership and licensing issues should they ever seek to use the character themselves. Do you think Toho wants to have to ask NECA for permission to use the concept of Ghost Godzilla? Or pay out creator royalty rights? The rule for Toho will typically be to only approve characters that have appeared already in a released Toho owned and controlled property or in circumstances where all rights are already well worked out. Characters from unreleased or unused concepts will get vetoed. (And before anybody brings it up the comic publishers exist in very different places regarding new character creation. They can do it, but there are pre defined limitations and rules.)

[miguelnuva]

To be fair, the only things Toho has rejected (that we know of) are things that were either not from the movies or never even happened. As much as I'd like more creative figures like NES (who apparently was hard to get approved too), I'm fine with them sticking to only what was in the films, if that's what they're pushing towards.

Toho is a very conservative company that is very careful about shielding it's IP. They are not going to allow a relatively new licensing partner to introduce the first public appearence of anything regarding their characters. Honestly most License Holders will do the same. The problem becomes if Toho allows NECA to introduce a new character via their products then they can run into ownership and licensing issues should they ever seek to use the character themselves. Do you think Toho wants to have to ask NECA for permission to use the concept of Ghost Godzilla? Or pay out creator royalty rights? The rule for Toho will typically be to only approve characters that have appeared already in a released Toho owned and controlled property or in circumstances where all rights are already well worked out. Characters from unreleased or unused concepts will get vetoed. (And before anybody brings it up the comic publishers exist in very different places regarding new character creation. They can do it, but there are pre defined limitations and rules.)

Toho would own the rights to Ghost Godzilla even if NECA was first to show it as it would be a variation of Godzilla and thus all rights would revert to Toho.

[Kaijugriffey]

To be fair, the only things Toho has rejected (that we know of) are things that were either not from the movies or never even happened. As much as I'd like more creative figures like NES (who apparently was hard to get approved too), I'm fine with them sticking to only what was in the films, if that's what they're pushing towards.

Toho is a very conservative company that is very careful about shielding it's IP. They are not going to allow a relatively new licensing partner to introduce the first public appearence of anything regarding their characters. Honestly most License Holders will do the same. The problem becomes if Toho allows NECA to introduce a new character via their products then they can run into ownership and licensing issues should they ever seek to use the character themselves. Do you think Toho wants to have to ask NECA for permission to use the concept of Ghost Godzilla? Or pay out creator royalty rights? The rule for Toho will typically be to only approve characters that have appeared already in a released Toho owned and controlled property or in circumstances where all rights are already well worked out. Characters from unreleased or unused concepts will get vetoed. (And before anybody brings it up the comic publishers exist in very different places regarding new character creation. They can do it, but there are pre defined limitations and rules.)

Toho would own the rights to Ghost Godzilla even if NECA was first to show it as it would be a variation of Godzilla and thus all rights would revert to Toho.

It's not always that simple. Ghost Godzilla is categorized as a separate character. Not simply a funky repaint of an existing one. IP and creators rights can get weird. and be challenged in the flimsiest ways. This is why many IP rights holders will not allow others to touch any characters until they are clearly and publicly "created" ie Published in some way by the IP holder. Marvel used to be infamous for that trick. (See; She Hulk, Spider Woman, Ms. Marvel, Death's Head)

Think of it this way. If you have a Disney License you can make Mickey and Minnie figures. Mickey and Minnie are the defined characters. You can dress them up in a ton of different ways and they still remain the licensed characters. But if you decide to make a statue of Mickey's half brother "Monty" that you read about on a website somewhere, well that's a whole new character. And Disney will say hell no. Ghost Godzilla is Monty as far as Toho is concerned. The IP holder as a general rule tends to frown upon the IP licensee expanding the IP. Yes their are exceptions. But those tend to occur in much more established and defined relationships than what NECA currently has with Toho. And it's not like Toho is restricting NECA from going weird or creative. I mean damn the Nintendo Godzilla is a fun oddball. G1985 was certainly a non intuitive choice as well. So NECA has plenty of room to play with. They just likely aren't going to let them go outside of stuff they have not put up on screen big or small.

Licenses are weird. It is best not to delve too deeply into fan outrage over them. We the fans will never know what the terms are. What the specific issues are. etc. They are back end business dealings. They exist for a reason and the reason makes sense within business context. And it's not like Toho doesn't have a great deal of experience in this area and has not had a few odd stumbles over the years that have taught them to be cautious. Remember this guy?
http://www.amazon.com/Toy-Vault-TV09142 ... B001GN02S0
How much of him does Toho own vs how much belongs to Hanna Barbera?

Edit: Full disclosure, I have no knowledge of Toho business practices or contracts. The above is all simply speculation based on observed behaviors and common industry practices. In my non Kaiju related life I am a business consultant and have worked with manufacturing, design and some IP licensing over the years. I'm just pointing out what I see as some of the immediate and most obvious reasons why a company like Toho would disallow or delay for deeper review those certain NECA figure requests. Never assume bad faith when there are clear and common underlying business issues in a decision.

[BARAGONZILLA]

Long posties...

To be fair, the only things Toho has rejected (that we know of) are things that were either not from the movies or never even happened. As much as I'd like more creative figures like NES (who apparently was hard to get approved too), I'm fine with them sticking to only what was in the films, if that's what they're pushing towards.

sigh* I miss it when that didn't matter with a toy. Like the Trendmasters Power up figures (pretty sure thats what they were called). Godzilla never had armor. now we cant get cool stuff like that. So i guess Neca cant come up with those cool ideas that were floating around,back in the last forum. I kind of find toho being too strict on Neca, i mean come the fuck on, as much as I hate to say this, they are really just toys. You weren't that bad with Trendmasters. And it stinks because I was looking forward to some good ideas.

[miguelnuva]

To be fair, the only things Toho has rejected (that we know of) are things that were either not from the movies or never even happened. As much as I'd like more creative figures like NES (who apparently was hard to get approved too), I'm fine with them sticking to only what was in the films, if that's what they're pushing towards.

Toho is a very conservative company that is very careful about shielding it's IP. They are not going to allow a relatively new licensing partner to introduce the first public appearence of anything regarding their characters. Honestly most License Holders will do the same. The problem becomes if Toho allows NECA to introduce a new character via their products then they can run into ownership and licensing issues should they ever seek to use the character themselves. Do you think Toho wants to have to ask NECA for permission to use the concept of Ghost Godzilla? Or pay out creator royalty rights? The rule for Toho will typically be to only approve characters that have appeared already in a released Toho owned and controlled property or in circumstances where all rights are already well worked out. Characters from unreleased or unused concepts will get vetoed. (And before anybody brings it up the comic publishers exist in very different places regarding new character creation. They can do it, but there are pre defined limitations and rules.)

Toho would own the rights to Ghost Godzilla even if NECA was first to show it as it would be a variation of Godzilla and thus all rights would revert to Toho.

It's not always that simple. Ghost Godzilla is categorized as a separate character. Not simply a funky repaint of an existing one. IP and creators rights can get weird. and be challenged in the flimsiest ways. This is why many IP rights holders will not allow others to touch any characters until they are clearly and publicly "created" ie Published in some way by the IP holder. Marvel used to be infamous for that trick. (See; She Hulk, Spider Woman, Ms. Marvel, Death's Head)

Think of it this way. If you have a Disney License you can make Mickey and Minnie figures. Mickey and Minnie are the defined characters. You can dress them up in a ton of different ways and they still remain the licensed characters. But if you decide to make a statue of Mickey's half brother "Monty" that you read about on a website somewhere, well that's a whole new character. And Disney will say hell no. Ghost Godzilla is Monty as far as Toho is concerned.

[/quote]

Monty is not Mickey, Ghost Godzilla is just a dead Godzilla and on top of that I doubt NECA would try to sue Toho fro Ghost Godzilla to use it in anything. Toho has sued for less if NECA even tried to jerk a Ghost Godzilla from then it would be bye bye NECA.

[Kaiju no Kami]

Frankly, I think a Ghost Godzilla is just lazy because it would just be another repaint.

And I really think they should only be doing Godzillas that were actually featured in the movies. After they are done with all of those, then they can't do whatever they want.

[Chris55]

Frankly, I think a Ghost Godzilla is just lazy because it would just be another repaint.

Or it'll be an empty box with the label of "Ghost Godzilla". Then people will complain about it being a repaint.