New kaiju game from Matt Frank + Simon Strange [Archive]

[Svitska Donkun]

Let's talk about the monster unlocking system, and how skreeonk horrible it was in all 3 console Godzilla games.

[Mr. Strange]

Let's talk about the monster unlocking system, and how skreeonk horrible it was in all 3 console Godzilla games.

Ok, let's talk about it. Please include some examples of fighting game unlock systems you enjoyed, for reference.

[zilla103192]

I am going to agree with what Donkun said there.

I didn't like the unlock systems. Where you had to buy a pack, and then buy each monster in the pack.

I would much rather do it WotM style. Where when you play through, you get points for EVERYTHING (how many buildings you destroy, how quickly you defeated your opponent, etc.) and just take those points and spend them on the ONE monster you want, or whatever.

[Goji]

While I thought it was a pretty tedious in G:STE, what with having to buy the expensive "packs" of monsters, it wasn't quite so bad in G:U, where you could (thankfully) purchase them individually. Actually, on the original Dreamcast release ofMarvel vs. Capcom 2 (which I played religiously back in high school), the system of unlocking characters was extremely similar, so I was already very much accustomed to unlocking characters using a points system.

In the case of G:STE, It only meant that when I unwrapped G:STE on day one, I had to spend a couple of hours to be able to unlock Jet Jaguar.

If anything, the G:U system should be used. Maybe have the monsters cost less points to unlock? That could be a possible solution. Honestly, I like it more than the Smash Bros. route, where you *sometimes* (keyword here, I don't want people trying to correct me on this, I realize not all of the characters were unlocked in this fashion) have to spend a certain amount of time playing multiplayer just to unlock certain characters (at least in the games after Smash Bros. 64, it was like that). That, to me, is much more lame, and tedious than unlocking characters via a points system.

[Mr. Strange]

I am going to agree with what Donkun said there.

I didn't like the unlock systems. Where you had to buy a pack, and then buy each monster in the pack.

I would much rather do it WotM style. Where when you play through, you get points for EVERYTHING (how many buildings you destroy, how quickly you defeated your opponent, etc.) and just take those points and spend them on the ONE monster you want, or whatever.

In G:U, you got points for everything (building destroyed, winning melee and vs matches, destroying military, beating chapters in story mode).

And when buying packs, you got one monster free - in fact, that initial monster was the cheapest monster you could buy.

I think the more controversial unlock mechanism in G:U was the fact that so many monsters (10, or 11?) were locked completely until you did certain strange things in the story mode. There were some great discussions on the boards right after release, where people tried to figure out each unlock system - but there is a very good argument to be made for the case that those tasks were too hard, or weird, or complex for most players.

[Grayshot954]

Okay got everyone above and I would like to note I added Glacies into the other section. If there is one user monster I would like to see its that monster.

[Legionmaster]

If anything, the G:U system should be used. Maybe have the monsters cost less points to unlock? That could be a possible solution. Honestly, I like it more than the Smash Bros. route, where you *sometimes* (keyword here, I don't want people trying to correct me on this, I realize now all of the characters were unlocked in this fashion) have to spend a certain amount of time playing multiplayer just to unlock certain characters (at least in the games after Smash Bros. 64, it was like that). That, to me, is much more lame, and tedious than unlocking characters via a points system.

See, I prefer the unlocking mechanism that makes you explore all the aspects of the game. That's what the game is there for. If I was going to spend all this time on all these parts of a game, I would want people to actually experience all those parts, not just grind through a 1P mode with their favorite character. They can do that later.

[Mr. Strange]

See, I prefer the unlocking mechanism that makes you explore all the aspects of the game. That's what the game is there for. If I was going to spend all this time on all these parts of a game, I would want people to actually experience all those parts, not just grind through a 1P mode with their favorite character. They can do that later.

In my opinion, a mulitplayer game with a content unlock system NEEDS to allow players to unlock by simply playing mulitplayer games. (This doesn't necessarily contradict what you say)

I think forcing one player to play through the game several times before the characters are all unlocked leads to a terrible skill deficit between that player and their friends.

Then again, that might be because I grew up in an era where "multiplayer" meant people sitting next to one another, playing the same copy of the game. Much of the world now thinks of multiplayer as two people in different locations, each with their own copy of the game. If everyone has their own copy, then a story-based unlock system makes more sense - you are matching available characters to more practiced players.

In other notes - I, too played the Dreamcast version of MvC2 A BUNCH. (As in, unlocked everything from scratch 3 times) so that was probably a significant influence on me. (My best record was unlocking everything in just under 50 hours of play-time.)

[Goji]

Haha, I too would delete my MvC2 save, and start over "just because".

I think the more controversial unlock mechanism in G:U was the fact that so many monsters (10, or 11?) were locked completely until you did certain strange things in the story mode. There were some great discussions on the boards right after release, where people tried to figure out each unlock system - but there is a very good argument to be made for the case that those tasks were too hard, or weird, or complex for most players.

You see, this didn't bother me, personally. I rather liked that aspect. The problem is, you have all of these players who want instant gratification, and want everything unlocked from the get go. That's just not "fun" to me. I like having additional reasons to play the story mode, other than just the story itself. When I first booted up G:U, my first thought was "Okay, I need to find out how to unlock Biollante asap. I've waited too long!". Turns out, I found the building covered in vines by complete accident on the Tokyo stage, (which was the second level I played on, I believe), and ended up unlocking her by complete accident. It was a nice touch, and I'd like to see more stuff like that in this new game.

See, I prefer the unlocking mechanism that makes you explore all the aspects of the game. That's what the game is there for. If I was going to spend all this time on all these parts of a game, I would want people to actually experience all those parts, not just grind through a 1P mode with their favorite character. They can do that later.

Yeah, I totally get where you're coming from. Now that I think of it, I think Smash Bros. Melee (or maybe it was Brawl? Idk, haven't played either in ages), gave you multiple options to unlock certain characters/content. I think that could also work, for this new Godzilla brawler.

[hammysammy59]

With monsters being created and doled out over a period of time, is an unlock system even necessary? The monsters will be "unlocked" when they're available for download. It might be frustrating to download sets of monsters, and then have the game tell the player that they're not available yet.

On the other hand, like Legionmaster said, unlocking content is a good way to get players to explore every aspect of a game... and when it's done right, it's pretty fun and rewarding too.

And yeah, Melee and Brawl offered different ways to unlock content, which was AWESOME. Having a Brawl release party the weekend it came out, I had the majority of the characters unlocked in less than 24 hours because so many people were playing so much multiplayer.

[matrix]

I love the ways to unlock monsters on your last 2 games (mostly save the earth) but I think that it should be just like godzilla save the earth's, only you get points from playing vs. mode also, seems great to me.

[Legionmaster]

What I mean is, people should have to play the game to unlock things. Unlike GU, where you could just grab Destoroyah and horn katana your way through the story mode again and again until you have everything.

If we have both a 1P story mode and a multiplayer mode, things should be unlocked by playing both.

Now that I think of it, I think Smash Bros. Melee (or maybe it was Brawl? Idk, haven't played either in ages), gave you multiple options to unlock certain characters/content. I think that could also work, for this new Godzilla brawler.

It's both lol. Melee lets you unlock a character every 100 VS matches, or meet the requirements in other ways (usually through single player modes). Brawl had VS match unlocks, but you also got characters from playing the Subspace Emissary mode (which was even co-op).


Unrelated, and I don't think it has been brought up yet, but if we have a story mode, what's everyone's opinion on having it be co-op (on or off line)?

[Svitska Donkun]

Some of the ways of unlocking a monster to purchase in G:U were pretty cool, but the problem was that after doing some weird, obtuse secret to unlock a monster, you'd have to BUY it afterwards. It should have just been, BOOM! unlocked. Play as this character now. That means then you don't have to go through hours of work to unlock one monster. Essentially, you have to play the same campaign over and over again, and it wear on the player. It needs to be more dynamic, like in Super Smash Bros. X amount of fights on Map A let's you challenge Monster Z, you defeat Monster Z, he's added to your roster. And mix it up with versus, survival, minigames, campaign, and online modes.

[Legionmaster]

I agree that an unlock THEN buy is a little bit of overkill. I tend to prefer just plain unlocking. Buying's too economic. I don't wanna "work" to unlock game features, I want to play to unlock them. I suppose this springs from my Metroid heritage. If I just busted my ass to kill Ridley, I want my screw attack. I don't want to have to go back out to Norfair and blast kihunters and desgeegas until I have enough Spacebucks to go to another menu and purchase my screw attack.

[CheetoKamper]

Godzilla (Hesei)
Godzilla (S.O.S.)
Anguirus (Showa)
Rodan (Hesei)
King Ghidorah (Showa)
Gabara
Hedorah (Showa)
Mechagodzilla (70's)
Kiryu
Mothra (GMK)
Battra
Jet Jaguar
Spacegodzilla
Destoryah
Baragon (GMK)
Varan
Mecha King Ghidorah
Gigan (Showa)
Megalon
Biolantte

[Goji]

With monsters being created and doled out over a period of time, is an unlock system even necessary? The monsters will be "unlocked" when they're available for download. It might be frustrating to download sets of monsters, and then have the game tell the player that they're not available yet.

While you bring up a good point, I think that if the roster is "allowed" to be big enough from launch, that unlocking the monsters that are already there should still be implemented. I know many will disagree, but meh. When the time comes, I'm sure we'll all be able to vote for things like this, and come up with a general consensus. It seems that most people aren't actually against any unlock system, but just don't want it to be like it was in the Pipeworks games.

Unrelated, and I don't think it has been brought up yet, but if we have a story mode, what's everyone's opinion on having it be co-op (on or off line)?

Yes, please. I really liked that I could go online with a friend (on the same Xbox), and play versus against other players online. That was fantastic. Because of the structure of the single player, I understand why it couldn't really be implemented in that mode, but I'd love to see it in this new game.

[Mr. Strange]

Unrelated, and I don't think it has been brought up yet, but if we have a story mode, what's everyone's opinion on having it be co-op (on or off line)?

It has been brought up. Don't you read every post in the 87 pages before asking?

I like the idea of a co-op story - but we would need to bend the definition of "story" a bit. Pitting your two monsters against 2 AI monsters, then loading a new environment and doing it again, is totally possible.

The difficulty comes with cutscenes - either in-game or comic-style. If we allow for that, then the two players can get somewhat out of sync (or we don't allow them to skip the cutstenes - not a good idea...).

So how do we create a story mode which has no cutscenes? Maybe we can do it all with in-game chatter, or similar.

[Legionmaster]

The difficulty comes with cutscenes - either in-game or comic-style. If we allow for that, then the two players can get somewhat out of sync (or we don't allow them to skip the cutstenes - not a good idea...).

Could you elaborate on what this concern is?

[Svitska Donkun]

The difficulty comes with cutscenes - either in-game or comic-style. If we allow for that, then the two players can get somewhat out of sync (or we don't allow them to skip the cutstenes - not a good idea...)

Uhm, do it in the same way triple A titles like Gears do it when it comes to cut scenes. If there's cut scenes, it requires both players to hit "skip" for it to skip.

[CheetoKamper]

Unrelated, and I don't think it has been brought up yet, but if we have a story mode, what's everyone's opinion on having it be co-op (on or off line)?

I for one would love co-op for a story mode, I couldn't think of a better thing to add to story mode than to let people run through it as a team with a friend. Who wouldn't want to play as Godzilla and Anguirus or Gigan and Megalon or even as (a personal dream team of mine) Godzilla and King Ghidorah. Co-op would definatly be welcome from me as it could also add intresting fun little mini game type levels where you and you're friend simply race to destroy a city before your friend destroys more of it. Not exactly like the mini games that were in STE (though some of those screamed co-op or at least multiplayer) but almost like what they had in Rampage World Tour where if you played with other people every so often there would be a level where you just fight eachother for fun and to sort of break up the reppetiveness of destroying cities.