New kaiju game from Matt Frank + Simon Strange [Archive]

[Captain Aktion]

^Well, if we give it a questionable ending, we can apparently expect upwards of $75 grand in donations...

EDIT: And seriously, Donkun, do you not realize people play, like, a shit-ton of a fighting game alone; especially if they're training??? I can't even begin to calculate the hours I logged alone in Cvs.Snk just so I could own in a multi-match. If I could have a subsidiary reason to be doing all of that, then hell, why would I not want that?

[Tormentor]

Yes but times have changed Donkun, a solid story plot can prove very successful, I agree that some games can get along fine without them. But something like a Godzilla game mainly relies on a good plot to succeed. But I'm basically neutral on this subject, as long as it doesn't suck.

Well, how I see it, its a tad bit different.

You see, when it came to the Godzilla games developed by pipeworks, fans care about mostly two things.
1. Monster Roster (How many monsters will be playable, and who will make the roster)
2, Gameplay (This really doesn't need much explanation).

The Story did not matter much since some fans knew that it would be a plot that was common for a monster game to bare. Alien Invasions, controlling monsters, trying to take over the world. Simple, but a great way to introduce monsters into the game without needing to enter any origins. (Mainly because we had the films to educate us and this game was targeted at fans) But the point is. all that truly mattered was the roster and gameplay. This has always applied to daikaiju based games like Godzilla and Ultraman, but only when they are fighters.


BUT!

Only how a story is somewhat near as important as gameplay and roster, is when the game bares only Original Monster Fighters. Why? Well, Original Monsters are just that, original. They aren't well known or anything, so you need to make a appealing yet enjoyable Story that helps delivers the gaming experience to the player. War of the Monsters story mode was pretty good to me, mainly because you could see the effort placed in with the mildly large boss battles, the journey you endured with your monster, cinematic cutscenes (It helped make it the experience more visually appealing) and of course because of the style it was in (50's Monster Movie style). And when everything was said and done, you were rewarded with a cinematic ending that showed the player the origin of his/her monster. Not bad, did it needed some work? Of course, like having a conclusion. What happened after the last boss battle? Did my monster conquer the world or something? Or did it simply went off somewhere to hibernate? That was the only flaw to me.

So overall,

Story isn't much important within Godzilla Fighting Games, only roster and gameplay matter. Give a common yet appealing plot (Like maybe the Red Bamboo is trying to take over the world with legions of monsters. But your monster has to head down to the main base somewhere in the world and destroy it completely), then well, there ya go.

But for a original monster fighting game, yeah, its somewhat nearly as important as the roster and gameplay, after all you have to grab people's interest in order for them to even think about checking out your game and see what it offers. Especially when its bares monsters that no one has heard before.

[miguelnuva]

For an achievement the game could have

Finally won

Defeat any monster besides Godzilla with Angurius on Hard.

[Captain Aktion]

I more or less agree with you Tormentor; I guess what I'm saying is that if you don't care about the story, then don't care about the story, but that doesn't mean you have to sacrifice it. As they say in Hollywood, FX, a director, a cast, a set, etc. all of that costs a ton, but a good story costs nothing and there's nothing to be lost in having one.

[Svitska Donkun]

For an achievement the game could have

Finally won

Defeat any monster besides Godzilla with Angurius on Hard.

Why would that apply to Anguirus but not to any of Godzilla's other allies. Wasn't he instrumental in defeating King Ghidorah in Godzilla vs. Gigan? He was also one of the most powerful fighters in STE. If anything, the achievement you're talking about should be for Baragon. He's had it much worse.

[miguelnuva]

For an achievement the game could have

Finally won

Defeat any monster besides Godzilla with Angurius on Hard.

Why would that apply to Anguirus but not to any of Godzilla's other allies. Wasn't he instrumental in defeating King Ghidorah in Godzilla vs. Gigan? He was also one of the most powerful fighters in STE. If anything, the achievement you're talking about should be for Baragon. He's had it much worse.

Because Angurius has never won a one on one fight and he's had three or four depending on how you count it.

[Svitska Donkun]

For an achievement the game could have

Finally won

Defeat any monster besides Godzilla with Angurius on Hard.

Why would that apply to Anguirus but not to any of Godzilla's other allies. Wasn't he instrumental in defeating King Ghidorah in Godzilla vs. Gigan? He was also one of the most powerful fighters in STE. If anything, the achievement you're talking about should be for Baragon. He's had it much worse.

Because Angurius has never won a one on one fight and he's had three or four depending on how you count it.

And Baragon's gotten killed twice, and has never even won a fight in conjunction with other monsters....so I still think the scales are tipped in his favor.

[miguelnuva]

For an achievement the game could have





Because Angurius has never won a one on one fight and he's had three or four depending on how you count it.

And Baragon's gotten killed twice, and has never even won a fight in conjunction with other monsters....so I still think the scales are tipped in his favor.

expect Baragon is always the apposing kaiju where Angurius has been the hero kaiju.

[Svitska Donkun]

expect Baragon is always the apposing kaiju where Angurius has been the hero kaiju.

Anguirus was Godzilla's FIRST enemy, and Godzilla was the opposing monster in GMK. Baragon was the good guy.
Flawed logic. =P

[Godzillabrawler]

I'm going to throw my opinion out there.

We should go for the Fan Minimum. What's the difference between that and the bare minimum?

-Godzilla Unleashed roster completely returns, declone anyone, de-hybrid, and overall just polish the roster while maybe adding Hedorah.
-Include Action Mode to start. Story can be added later, but we should aim for just action mode first.
-Improve fighting and destruction mechanics. Make fighting the DAMM/STE way and make building destruction realistic (or as close as we can get).

Feel free to suggest.

[hammysammy59]

I fully understand the want for this game to be a 3D brawler... but I don't get the want for this to be a rehash of the Pipeworks games. There's three of them. If you want more Pipeworks Godzilla, fire up one of those three.

This game needs a fresh new combat engine and game mechanics. One that's compelling in and of itself, addictive and fun. The Pipeworks games aren't bad by any stretch, but the combat--the real meat of the game--has plenty of room for improvement.

Maybe I'm a game player first and a Godzilla fan second. I want a fun, addictive game about giant monsters. If it can feature monsters I know from movies great, but if that's a sacrifice that has to be made to make the best giant monster game possible, I'm fine with that too. I want a game that's as fun and addictive as the old N64 wrestling titles, but set in the world of city-smashing gigantic beasts. Give me a combat system that's fun, addictive, well-made AND makes me feel like I'm in control of a 150+ ft. tall behemoth and you'll have my money and my word of mouth.

[yaburu]

>>Wants people to stop settling for bare minimums.
>>Only cares about a fighting game and treats anything else like unnecessary add-ons

Make up your mind, Donkun Donuts, are we dreaming big or being minimalists?

I'm simply expressing the need to prioritize one aspect of development over another in order to make the game as best in can be. In video games, you never focus on story before gameplay. It's a different form of media than music, movies, and books. and not particularly a narrative based one. Narrative is almost irrelevant when it comes to video games, because gameplay is the art form. Super Mario Galaxy is one of the best games ever made, no real plot. All of you Pokemon fans, No real plot. Bethesda games? Plot takes a back seat. Dark Souls? Was there a plot? Games are not movies. Sure some of them have great stories, but those games are almost streamlined into movies themselves and lose a lot of what makes them games, which is excellent gameplay(coughMGS4coughHeavyRaincough) and lots of it.

I think you done gone full retard.

And you done gone over the line. Don't do it again.

Jeez, this thread jumped up by about two pages since I went to bed last night.

[Mr. Strange]

I would greatly prefer Finisher Attacks. Those were one of the interesting aspects of G:DAMM and STE. G:U's Critical Mass (Or Meltdown Power-Up) was interesting and pretty useful in battle. But it just couldn't fill the void of losing the Rage Finishers. Now, if we are talking 2D Original Kaiju Fighting game, I think it could be done greatly well. Keep things short, sweet and in real time. Due to possibly wearing down the budget, time and resources, any one who's gotten the perk of adding their own monster in should probably talk with the developers when it comes to the creature's Finisher. Adjustments might need to be made if the creature's most powerful move is something that's strong enough to wipe out a planet or nuke a massive island from existence. Even more so, if the attack requires a long of animation to be completely pulled off.

I have mixed feelings about Finishing Moves. They are (almost by definition) special-case attacks which occur infrequently - so they are more difficult to implement, and are seen less. That makes them very inefficient resource-wise.

On the other hand, as a player I totally understand why they are awesome. The biggest trick is to make sure that they are reasonable to implement. One of the reasons I switched to Power Surges in G:U was the fact that I could just design 7 good special abilities, and apply them to all monsters.

Some finishers were already very easy to implement - for example G90's Finishing Beam. Since we had already invested lots of time, technology, and art into Beams, it was a matter of minutes to make a new gigantic beam attack for him. Piece of Cake. On the other hand, King Ghidorah's Death Storm was very challenging - how could I animate his heads but still make sure that it had a reasonable chance of hitting opponents? What about the wind gust element, which could only play a sound every .6 seconds, but needed to fire potentially ever .1 seconds? Very complex.

"Design our own finishing move" sounds like the stuff of nightmares to me - because I suspect most submitters would describe some crazy sequence which would be very difficult to implement...

All of which is to say that finishing moves are a delicate subject.

[SpanishBulldog63]

Another thing about finishers is that some may call for alteration due to anatomy or differing sizes.For example,what worked as a finisher for Varan against Anguirus may not work against Biollante or King Ghidorah.So there may alterations to finishers depending on the opponent.If anything the only ones I can think of who would need alterations to be used on them would be the above 2,Hedorah,Kamacuras,Kumonga,and Manda...depending on whose finisher it is,of course.

[Mr. Strange]

I fully understand the want for this game to be a 3D brawler... but I don't get the want for this to be a rehash of the Pipeworks games. There's three of them. If you want more Pipeworks Godzilla, fire up one of those three.

This game needs a fresh new combat engine and game mechanics. One that's compelling in and of itself, addictive and fun. The Pipeworks games aren't bad by any stretch, but the combat--the real meat of the game--has plenty of room for improvement.

This is something I worry about (albeit only a little...) if I were to make another 3D brawler, it would probably have a lot in common with my past 3D brawlers.

I'd love to hear some ideas about how you might implement things differently, to make them fresh / improved. From anyone. And please no bashing on people's suggestion! Just brainstorming would be great.

[SpanishBulldog63]

I saw one idea earlier in this thread about environmental grapples.Say you and the opponent are by a skyscraper,a grapple command will appear and upon so,you grab your opponent and smash their face into the building.which leads to the idea of counter-strikes and counter-grapples(an idea from the Smackdown vs Raw games).iIt'd work with todays consoles too,with L1/Left Bumper=counter grapple and R1/Right Bumper=counter strike.So if you are on the receiving end of an environment grapple,hit the grapple counter at the right time and you're free to return the favor.

[Tyler]

like Togera had green, purple, mecha, and demon.


Or an even better example, Preytor had Mantis, Ant, Mech, and Wasp....


easily turning a roster of 10, to a roster of 40.

Where'd you get those?

[hammysammy59]

SpanishBulldog basically read my mind. If I were asked to design a kaiju brawler, I'd take a TON of inspiration from wrestling games: slower paced, compact arenas, with a heavy emphasis on grapples, reversals and context-sensitive attacks. Wrestling games have been rocking this set-up for years, and even though I don't like pro wrestling at all, I can't deny that the games are ridiculously fun, and even more so with some friends. Def Jam: Fight for New York was just as big a part of my friends' social gaming regimen as Smash Bros., Mario Kart, or Goldeneye/Perfect Dark which is some of the highest praise I can think of. Hell, almost ten years and a console generation later, we still bust out Def Jam for some heinous hip-hop brawling.

I've written... a lot on the subject of a kaiju wrestling game, but I'll try and sum up the key points (taken from my original post here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=67&p=55991&hilit=wrestling#p55991):

"Grounded" characters (no jumping, except in special situations). Full 3D range of movement. Smaller "arenas" (compared to Pipeworks' Godzilla games) but with a wider variety of interactive environments/items/weapons. Emphasis on simple, strong strike combos, grappling and reversals. Emphasis on context sensitive attacks (i.e. doing attacks off the turnbuckle or to an opponent from behind in a wrestling game are different from attacks done normally) including level specific and tag-team moves. If you haven't, rent a wrestling game! The trashy characters and stories are corny camp at best, but if you can put that aside you'll find a really fun alternative to the typical tournament fighter, and a fighting engine that I think you'll agree is a perfect fit for kaiju.

"But how will beam attacks fit into this? Couldn't I just blast away at my opponent to keep him from grappling me?" Nope! Beam attacks would work differently. Another thing current wrestling games do really well (IMO) is keep super powerful moves available but limited. These special moves only require a well-timed button press to execute, but you have to earn them by scoring X amount of attacks on your opponent, filling up a meter. When the meter is full, you can do your special attack.

Smackdown vs Raw 2010 has two tiers to the meter. The first meter makes your fighter's "signature move" available. After successfully performing your fighter's signature move, the "finisher" becomes available. I think this would apply fantastically to Godzilla and friends... beam users still get their beams, but strict tooth'n'claw monsters can still be strictly tooth'n'claw, since signature moves and finishers don't NEED to be beams in order to be devastating and/or flashy (Gorosaurus kangaroo kick, anyone?). This would also effectively mark the end of beam-spamming. This is another reason why tighter, more compact arenas are ideal: it goes a long way to balancing the playing field between beamers and t+c freaks.

Taunting also builds up the meter, and using a variety of attacks instead of spamming one move over and over again also builds up the meter quicker. Another cool thing that current wrestling games do is give you access to more powerful/flashier normal moves as your meter fills. The combination of the meter system and the grapple-heavy basis of modern wrestling games would work fantastically with kaiju, and accurately replicate the rhythm and over-the-top nature of a good movie monster battle.

"Grounded monsters? But what about Rodan, Mothra, or any number of flight-based monsters?" Well, another thing a Godzilla wrestler will hopefully carry over from wrestling games is something that's already partially in place, a run button. When you're Rodan or Adult Mothra or whichever flying monster, when you hold the run button, your monster doesn't just run, but takes to the air.

What makes this cool is that a wrestling-inspired Godzilla brawler would have a running strike and running grapple, moves that are only available while your monster is running/flying at an opponent.

Reversals of course are huge in a game like this. If Rodan flies at you, trying to clothes-line you, a well-timed reversal will let you knock him on his ass, instead of vice versa. Running attacks and grapples especially will give you a chance to turn the tide, or for your opponent to turn the tide on you.

The idea of context-sensitive attacks is one that can carry into a lot of other situations too. Special matches and particular arenas will all be home to their own unique attack opportunities. Who doesn't want to slam their friend's face into the side of sky-scrapers or throw their silly ass into a volcano? This kind of madness is PAR FOR THE COURSE in wrestling games (just swap sky-scrapers for railings, and volcanoes for subway trains), and the flexibility of the combat system is what makes it possible. Interacting with the environment is a HUGE part of wrestling games, so of course a Godzilla wrestler would follow suit. Unique tag-team attacks are in the same vein, except you're interacting with with other monsters in a unique way. Your buddy grabs Megalon, which triggers your ability to do a sliding kick into his chest, or maybe you grab King Ghidorah so your friend can do Anguirus' flying back-slam into the poor bastard. Why yes, I DO want to be able to do this in a video game! And a wrestling-style fighting engine would make it all possible.

The characters are a little slower and more methodical, but with tighter, more focused "arena" designs, the slower speed doesn't hurt--if anything, it reinforces the idea that you're controlling a gigantic monster, instead of a lithe ninja master. The other upside to smaller arenas is the ability to make each one a unique fighting experience. Instead of a bunch of cities that start to look the same, you can base a smaller arena around a famous landmark or two. Instead of a sprawling NYC level, you can have two kaiju on either side of the Empire State Building, using it for cover, or slamming each other into it, or trying to push it over onto each other, or just bringing it down over the course of the fight. One of my favorite Godzilla scenes is from the end of King Kong vs Godzilla, where the two are on either side of a Japanese castle, and they both just shred the thing, trying to get at each other's throats. That's an element I'd love to see recreated in a new kaiju game.

[Hellspawn28]

I agree with TSC, I would like to see a open world Godzilla game. Online play with two players or more could work since you can select different monsters to play as.

[Hotrod93]

Come to think about it I couldnt really see "Finishers" in a Godzilla game oddly enough.

They would just seem put in there for the sake of having them. Most Gozilla movies battle's normally end on juts a simple Atomic Blast or etc.

But I would like their being different types of Monster abilities and traits per monster.

Keep in mind the percents are just there as placeholders to give people a better understanding.

100% regens on own
100%+ only by obtaining energry

Godzilla(Heisei):
Ability: Super Regeneration (Gains back X amount of life per every X Sec)

-HP: (X/10)
-Strength:
-Durability:
-Speed:

-First Trait: Atomic Ray
100% Energy Bar (Charge)

Second Trait:
-Nuclear Pulse
100% Energy Bar (Tap, Only active when grabbed.)

Third/200% Trait:
-Spiral Ray
200% Energy Bar (Charge)

Something like that to make the game stand out a little more.