New kaiju game from Matt Frank + Simon Strange [Archive]

[Living Corpse]

Character Unlocking
If it's not Free to Play, make every playable monster unlocked from the get-go. Super Street Fighter 4 & Ultimate MvC3 had every character unlocked right from the get-go, allowing players to get right into the gameplay with anyone they want. This is preferable. I find the unlocking process of previous Pipeworks Godzilla games tedious.

NO!

Half the fun of games is unlocking shit, earning it. If everyone is unlock non fans will play it once and then drop it. Unllockibles give people more reason to play it more then once.

Or if unlocking monsters is a must - make them easy to unlock. For example, playing through the Story Mode with each monster unlocks a new monster. Specifically, playing through the story with Godzilla would unlock Kiryu. Then playing through the Story Mode with Kiryu would unlock King Ghidorah. This way players are forced to experience playing every monster and getting a feel for how they work.

YES! Unlockibles don't have to be a pain to unlock they can be fun. Also maybe have a cheat code for people who wanna do a tournament so they don't have to waste time unlocking them for tournaments. People like me can get them the old way and tournament organizers and lazy gamers can just cheat. Everyone wins.

[Oasis_S]

Yeah, Godzilla is more of a party game, so maybe following Street Fighter like that isn't the best.

Didn't DAMM have the latter unlocking method you suggested, Lenbo? That is a pretty good method. I just hope I don't suck terribly with one particular monster which leaves me unable to unlock one or two other monsters, lol.

[Mr. Strange]

Replay Feature from G:DAMM
- The replay from G:DAMM of the knock-out hit with various camera angles was really cool. Bring it back if possible.

Sorry to start on a sour note, but the Spigot engine added too much complexity to bring this back the way it was in G:DAMM. I have some ideas about replacements, but this is probably not a top priority due to the costs involved.

“Comeback” mechanic
- When you get “defeated” there’s some way for you to save yourself, stay in the fight and possibly pull out a win

This is the direction we've been discussing - I think it's the best thematic fit for a Kaiju game - sort of like "battle overtime" - you might just lose when your health goes to zero, but you might come back in a stronger attack/weaker defense form to keep trying. Could lead to some epic battles.

Health System
Health cells are good, allow you to clearly tell who has more overall health. It was much clearer in G:U that monsters started out with different amounts of health compared to StE.

Information Clarity
In previous games, there was a definite problem of making everything clear to the player(s). This is why there is such widespread ignorance on how the systems and mechanics of previous Pipeworks Godzilla games functioned.

Putting monster stats on the vs screen is tricky - because you have 1/4 or less of the screen to work with. Since we'll be starting on PC, a hover-over solution would probably work really well.

I really like numbers - they are nice and clear. I'm considering replacing the entire health bar with a defense # (sort of like Smash Bros) to really drive that sort of thing home. A number also helps fit 4 player HUDs on the screen - which is always a problem.

Practice Mode
- Practice mode is a must, essential for new players to get the hang of things and for players to test out monsters. See any Capcom fighting game for example on how to do this.
- Tutorial would be appreciated as well, see Mortal Kombat 9 on how to do this well.

A well-implemented practice mode is quite a lot of work. My preference is to allow the AI to be turned down to "very easy" - which gives you most of the same practice opportunities, without all the engineering overhead.

Online Play
GGPO networking system for online play seems to be the best solution for smooth online play. All I've ever heard from the fighting game community is this is preferable over other solutions as it makes online fighting games feel lag-free. Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix and the recent XBLA fighting game Skullgirls use it, and the feedback has been very positive.

The idea behind GGPO, as described in that article, is exactly how Spigot already deals with networking. I felt really clever when I designed that system in 2004. I always thought StE had some of the best online combat ever.

- If this is going to be competitive, which if it's anything like StE it will be, then stat tracking (wins/losses) are a must. Also a player stats screen showing information like most used monster and wins/losses for each monster played would be appreciated. See Super Smash Bros. Brawl for a good example of this.

This is a ton of work, but I'm inclined to prioritize it. Since the design of the game (and how we spend our time/money) is going to be handled through online discussion, you should make sure everyone else here agrees with us.

Free to Play
If this game turns out to be Free to Play, then monsters could be unlocked through spending points earned in any mode by simply playing the game or unlocked with real $$$. (See League of Legends or Uber Entertainment's Super Monday Night Combat for reference on how to do this well.)

The game might cost $0, but it would not be Free to Play. "Free to Play" means there is a way to spend money inside the game - that absolutely won't be the case with this game.

Character Unlocking
If it's not Free to Play, make every playable monster unlocked from the get-go. Super Street Fighter 4 & Ultimate MvC3 had every character unlocked right from the get-go, allowing players to get right into the gameplay with anyone they want. This is preferable. I find the unlocking process of previous Pipeworks Godzilla games tedious.

Or if unlocking monsters is a must - make them easy to unlock. For example, playing through the Story Mode with each monster unlocks a new monster. Specifically, playing through the story with Godzilla would unlock Kiryu. Then playing through the Story Mode with Kiryu would unlock King Ghidorah. This way players are forced to experience playing every monster and getting a feel for how they work.

We could be more creative here - why not allow unlocking for single-player, but let everything be available for multiplayer from the get-go? I also think non-critical unlocks, like visual flair on your monster, is a good thing to let players unlock for multiplayer modes - like portraits or titles or the like.

[Oasis_S]

I also think non-critical unlocks, like visual flair on your monster, is a good thing to let players unlock for multiplayer modes - like portraits or titles or the like.

Or Godzilla with a top hat.

[Godz]

To those wanting a training mode....just set up a 2P match with no one manning the 2P controller. Simple fix, no? And it won't cost any extra dev dollars. I get that it wont have the fleshed out AI actions (like always jump, duck, etc, like Capcom games) but I don't think its essential to the game. IMO these style brawlers don't have near the complexity of a Capcom fighter.

[JVM]

Here's an idea for Training mode, that I think sits in line for Mr. Strange's idea - add Training as a difficulty level rather than a mode:

Training
Easy
Medium/Normal
Hard

Maybe even toss in an "Insane/Advanced/Expert" difficulty after Hard, too.

[PopInPicsPresents]

How does everybody feel about really long button combos?

Maybe instead of a Rage move, players can pull off some sort of long combo and unleash an ultimate attack of sorts.

[Fiender]

I have a suggestion, not sure how much attention it'll draw.

Something I felt was missing from all of the games was ambiance in the cities. It felt like I was punching giant cardboard boxes, not buildings. And it felt too much like a giant city set from a Toho movie, not an actual city.

People running on the streets in giant crowds, cities gridlocked with cars trying to flee, buildings that are fun to destroy even if they aren't photo-realistic. At night (if you add that option), the buildings and streets should light up and give your monster the chance to make it all go dark >:)

[JVM]

^ More detail, less maps.

More maps, less detail.

It's a tough line to walk, my man.

[PopInPicsPresents]

^ More detail, less maps.

More maps, less detail.

It's a tough line to walk, my man.

Why not have a vote?

[Mr. Strange]

I have a suggestion, not sure how much attention it'll draw.

Something I felt was missing from all of the games was ambiance in the cities. It felt like I was punching giant cardboard boxes, not buildings. And it felt too much like a giant city set from a Toho movie, not an actual city.

People running on the streets in giant crowds, cities gridlocked with cars trying to flee, buildings that are fun to destroy even if they aren't photo-realistic. At night (if you add that option), the buildings and streets should light up and give your monster the chance to make it all go dark >:)

In G:DAMM, there were working streetlights, cars that followed them (until the monsters got close!), news helicopters, busses running schedules, park benches, and more. Almost 10% of our processing time was spent on the "living city" elements.

We even tried people fleeing from crumbling buildings - but they were basically too tiny to see.

It was my opinion, when we started working on StE, that pretty much all of that was a waste. Even the tanks and military firing at your was mostly a waste - because nobody noticed it. (Except the freeze tanks, or monster air strikes)

[hammysammy59]

Obviously time and money would have to go into little effects like tanks and stuff, but is it also an issue of scale? The monsters in the Pipeworks games were scaled up to meet the sizes of the Heisei monsters, right? The Showa series is by far my favorite, and likely the most famous... it also features significantly smaller monsters. While it might make the monsters a little less awe-inspiring, it makes them able to have much more meaningful interactions with humans, and human-sized vehicles. I'd love to see Showa size monsters in this game.

[Lenbo]

This is the direction we've been discussing - I think it's the best thematic fit for a Kaiju game - sort of like "battle overtime" - you might just lose when your health goes to zero, but you might come back in a stronger attack/weaker defense form to keep trying. Could lead to some epic battles.

Street Fighter x Tekken has an interesting comeback mechanic called Pandora Mode. You can activate it when you have less than 25% health, which then kills your tag partner (if he's still alive), you then get a maxed-out super meter, but a timer then begins to count down, and at the end of 8 seconds you die.

Something along those lines would be interesting. Like as soon as you lose, you become more powerful than ever, but have a limited time to try to KO your opponent. If the opponent lands a hit on you, you're out for good. Think of this in a 3-4 player game. The first person to "lose" has the potential to take out everyone all by himself!

Putting monster stats on the vs screen is tricky - because you have 1/4 or less of the screen to work with. Since we'll be starting on PC, a hover-over solution would probably work really well.

Yeah, or hold down left trigger or something to view stats of the monster you currently have selected.

I really like numbers - they are nice and clear. I'm considering replacing the entire health bar with a defense # (sort of like Smash Bros) to really drive that sort of thing home. A number also helps fit 4 player HUDs on the screen - which is always a problem.

That could definitely work. Also important to note how Smash Bros' number changes to red the more damage the player takes.

If a health meter is used, a good example of clearly displaying health is DOTA 2. The meters are segmented (like StE's energy meter), but in a way that it's clear at a glance which characters have more health than others. The more segments on the health meter, the more health they have.

The idea behind GGPO, as described in that article, is exactly how Spigot already deals with networking. I felt really clever when I designed that system in 2004. I always thought StE had some of the best online combat ever.

It did have very good online combat... with 2 players. 3-4 player matches online had a tendency to get very choppy. We should strive to make it silky smooth no matter how many players there are. Mario Kart Wii for some reason had the most lag-free online mode I've ever seen. Or at least did the most amazing job hiding the lag. And that was with 12 players... on the Wii.

We could be more creative here - why not allow unlocking for single-player, but let everything be available for multiplayer from the get-go? I also think non-critical unlocks, like visual flair on your monster, is a good thing to let players unlock for multiplayer modes - like portraits or titles or the like.

I don't mind this idea except I imagine it might "cheapen" unlocking characters in single-player, if you can just switch to multiplayer to play as them anyways... I'm not sure how other people feel about this.

---

Some more thoughts:

Unlockable Content Ideas
Concept art, 3D monster renders, aesthetic changes (Burning Godzilla for Godzilla 90s), portraits, titles, taunts, alternate victory animations, alternate roars are all cool unlockable content.

Gameplay Ideas
Rolling - I liked rolling gameplay-wise, but as a concept in the Godzilla universe I always thought it was a bit silly. I think Godzilla rolled maybe once or twice in the films, and never for extended periods of time. Visually, rolling looks ridiculous as well. I think perhaps not all monsters should roll, or when they do, have a different animation. Seeing monsters like King Ghidorah or Destoroyah roll seemed really odd. Not sure how other people feel about this.

Get-up Attacks - These were always pretty cool in my opinion. G:U probably did them best animation-wise. However, I think it would be interesting to give monsters multiple get-up attacks. For example: Godzilla could have one where he use hes claws to slash as he gets up, another where he uses his tail, and another where you can use your Atomic Breath/Fireball. It would be really satisfying to blast your opponent from a prone position as you get up. Each could do a different damage type.

This would make get-up attacks more interesting as players will have choices of what they want to do, rather than just roll and use the same get-up attack over and over. It would make the outcome of knocking down an opponent less predictable as suddenly you're not sure what your opponent is going to strike back with.

Survival Mode
This mode has become rather popular of late with AAA games (Call of Duty, Gears of War, Halo, Batman: Arkham City) really have taken it and added their own spin.

If Survival Mode is included, it would ideally support leaderboards. Comparing your high scores to your friends and the world gives this mode longevity and incredible replay value besides just trying to best your own high score.

There are all sorts of possible Godzilla-centric scenarios as well. Monsters vs. Military or Aliens, Monsters vs. Multiple Kamacuras, Final Wars Godzilla vs. Everyone etc.

Of course the standard-keep-fighting-monsters-until-you-die is fun as it is. What I think would be really fun would be a Co-op Survival Mode. You and another monster take on waves of AI controlled opponents. Each team of enemies would be actual team-ups from Godzilla films (Godzilla/Rodan, Godzilla/Anguirus, Kumonga/Kamacuras, Gigan/King Ghidorah, Godzilla/Jet Jaguar, Gigan/Megalon, MechaG/Titanosaurus, Mothra/Battra, GMK Mothra/King Ghidorah, Kiryu/Mothra, Monster X/Gigan,).

I'm sure people could come up with other scenarios or ideas for a Godzilla spin on Survival Mode.

- Lenbo

[JVM]

Obviously time and money would have to go into little effects like tanks and stuff, but is it also an issue of scale? The monsters in the Pipeworks games were scaled up to meet the sizes of the Heisei monsters, right? The Showa series is by far my favorite, and likely the most famous... it also features significantly smaller monsters. While it might make the monsters a little less awe-inspiring, it makes them able to have much more meaningful interactions with humans, and human-sized vehicles. I'd love to see Showa size monsters in this game.

Have to agree with this actually. A Showa scale would be interesting to see.

[Goji]

Yeah, or hold down left trigger or something to view stats of the monster you currently have selected.

Viewing the monsters stats doesn't need to be an option in-game. Having them viewable at the character select screen (like they always have been) is perfectly fine.

It did have very good online combat... with 2 players. 3-4 player matches online had a tendency to get very choppy. We should strive to make it silky smooth no matter how many players there are. Mario Kart Wii for some reason had the most lag-free online mode I've ever seen. Or at least did the most amazing job hiding the lag. And that was with 12 players... on the Wii.

The online play was actually quit good..maybe you just had a bad experience with it *shrugs*. I played matches with four players all the time, and it was very rarely choppy. Two player matches were always spot on for me.

Comparing the online to play to a game that came out 4 years later on completely different hardware (Mario Kart Wii) seems like a pretty unfair fair comparison if you ask me.

Rolling - I liked rolling gameplay-wise, but as a concept in the Godzilla universe I always thought it was a bit silly. I think Godzilla rolled maybe once or twice in the films, and never for extended periods of time. Visually, rolling looks ridiculous as well. I think perhaps not all monsters should roll, or when they do, have a different animation. Seeing monsters like King Ghidorah or Destoroyah roll seemed really odd. Not sure how other people feel about.

Again, this is a video game, not a movie. The monsters are going to have certain actions that don't necessarily represent what they did in the films. Rolling is added for the sake of balance, because it allows you to escape what may otherwise be inescapable situations. It's been in Tekeen for decades for a reason.

Having only some monsters roll would be horrible unbalanced. I am highly against it.

[Lenbo]

Viewing the monsters stats doesn't need to be an option in-game. Having them viewable at the character select screen (like they always have been) is perfectly fine.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I meant holding the left trigger on the character select screen to bring up the stats that you currently have your cursor on, just as an example of how it could mechanically be done.

The online play was actually quit good..maybe you just had a bad experience with it *shrugs*. I played matches with four players all the time, and it was very rarely choppy. Two player matches were always spot on for me.

Comparing the online to play to a game that came out 4 years later on completely different hardware (Mario Kart Wii) seems like a pretty unfair fair comparison if you ask me.

Well G:U was on Wii, and considering this new game will be using a similar version of the Spigot engine as G:U for Wii, I think it's a somewhat relevant comparison. The fact that it supported 12 players and managed to be smooth is quite remarkable regardless.

Again, this is a video game, not a movie. The monsters are going to have certain actions that don't necessarily represent what they did in the films. Rolling is added for the sake of balance, because it allows you to escape what may otherwise be inescapable situations. It's been in Tekeen for decades for a reason.

Having only some monsters roll would be horrible unbalanced. I am highly against it.

I am aware we're talking about a video game and not a movie. I even said that gameplay-wise I liked rolling. Rolling just thematically doesn't make much sense for Godzilla and friends to be doing all the time.

Why would it be unbalanced if only some monsters rolled? Megaguiras, Mothra, and Moguera already didn't roll in StE. Unleashed had no rolling in it at all.

- Lenbo

[Supergeon]

I want to know what everyone thinks single player should be like.
Should it
A) Be an arcade ladder
B) Be a predetermined match order depending on monster picked (Exclusively monster matchups from films) keep in mind this would only apply to a TOHO or DAEI release..
C) G:U style where you have a map and can choose your location

[Supergeon]

All characters from G:U (Is this okay?)
Hedorah
Gorosaurus
Kamacuras FW
Kumonga FW
Battra (Larva and Imago)
Kamoebas
Gezora
Ganimes
Ebirah
Manda
Bagan
Monster X

That is asking a lot!

[hammysammy59]

I like B because it's basically like having an arcade ladder, but a cooler arcade ladder that is tailored to each monster. Hell, with the tailored ladders, the order of matches tells a story for each monster, without even having to use cut scenes and stuff. I'm not opposed to C, but I'd still want the map choices to be unique for each monster and have my map choices affect what other choices I can make, and how the story concludes.

[Mr. Strange]

I also think B - because it can be very interesting to have unusual match-up orders. In G:DAMM, for example, I loved that MKG fought Destoroyah first. People thought of Destoroyah as such a nasty fight - but MKG could absolutely clobber him - so just the fight order there really opened some people's eyes as to how the mechanics of the game worked.