New kaiju game from Matt Frank + Simon Strange [Archive]

[Mr. Strange]

Interesting question - do people like:

A+Up,
A+Down,
A+Left,
A+Right,

as the basis for triggering different attack moves? Alternatively, we could let button sequences play out as different attacks, or button combinations for different attacks.

We could also try a contextual system (more like the Batman games) where the attack is selected based on proximity to your opponent.

Do people like tap / hold for different ranged attacks?

We could even try tap / hold on attack buttons, for different variations.

How about blocking? I'm not sure it really makes sense in a Kaiju game...

How about ducking? Do we need it? Should it be more useful? Do we like keeping special duck attacks?

While I'm questioning everything - do we need jumping? Flight, sure. But there haven't been many "jumps" performed in suits in the movies...

[Mr. Strange]

Mr. Strange, I think online play will add replay value, put this also will, what if like super smash bros melee, you have to do a ton of battles in vs. mode to unlock some characters? Like, do 100 battles to unlock Titanosaurus, is this a good idea?

We've discussed this some - I don't like locking important content. I do like locking optional content, but I feel strongly that it needs to be unlocked via a points system, and points need to be earned for multiplayer games as well as single.

Right now, I feel like alternate versions of characters would be a good thing to unlock via points. Cool, but not necessary to test out how the various characters play.

[Supergeon]

Will money from Kickstarter be the only thing that keeps fresh content coming or will revenue from the game be reinvested in the project to some extent?

[matrix]

I love unlocking things with points, its my favorite way, but I think stuff should cost a lot like in Godzilla: Save the Earth, I love trying to get points to buy new monsters!

[Kaiju-King42]

I love unlocking things with points, its my favorite way, but I think stuff should cost a lot like in Godzilla: Save the Earth, I love trying to get points to buy new monsters!

I don't!

[Legionmaster]

Interesting question - do people like:

A+Up,
A+Down,
A+Left,
A+Right,

as the basis for triggering different attack moves?

Yes. This kind of setup is the most user-friendly, as I believe we are still planning for the game to support a few different controls. Soul Calibur II tried to get around this by giving each type of movement its own letter code, and then having that letter code able to be mapped out to either a GCN, PS2, or X-Box controller. It was a pain in the ass to understand and follow. Directions simplify that A LOT, because part of the combination uses a shared input (even for a keyboard).

We could also try a contextual system (more like the Batman games) where the attack is selected based on proximity to your opponent.

Bluh, not in a fighting game. There are a few such moves in GU, and it gets really annoying in a melee when you want to use one attack and you do another instead.

Do people like tap / hold for different ranged attacks?

Yes, because there is a vast difference between tapping and holding for an extended period of time.

We could even try tap / hold on attack buttons, for different variations.

This I'm less crazy about, unless it's used sort of how Soul Calibur uses it, where an attack animation is slowed/delayed if you hold the button. That might be ok.

How about blocking? I'm not sure it really makes sense in a Kaiju game...

I would agree, but I think it's hard to have a fighting game with no blocking. Otherwise, wouldn't the person who just attacks like a maniac just win every time? My instincts is to have blocking reduce damage and knockback, but not eliminate either. That way, you can't stall someone out by just blocking, but you can also stave off a potentially unfair onslaught of attacks and escape (like getting ganged up on in a melee).

How about ducking? Do we need it? Should it be more useful? Do we like keeping special duck attacks?

Was there ducking in GU? I don't think so, and I didn't miss it if it wasn't there.

While I'm questioning everything - do we need jumping? Flight, sure. But there haven't been many "jumps" performed in suits in the movies...

Yes, we need a way to avoid sweep attacks and hit monsters that are flying. Not nearly as insane as the jumping in GU, but the GDAMM model works fine. Could bring back jump attacks too, which I liked.

[Mr. Strange]

Will money from Kickstarter be the only thing that keeps fresh content coming or will revenue from the game be reinvested in the project to some extent?

Kickstarter is only funding the first release - how big that release is depends upon how much money we collect!

My idea is to charge (very little) for the game, but re-invest all of the profits into making new content. That new conent will then less for (very little) and fund even more content, and so forth.

[matrix]

Ahhh! Please dont make it like batman, I love the normal godzilla games, this game sounds so fun, but keep fighting around the same please, thanks!

[Mr. Strange]

You've hit upon one of my pet issues...

I would agree, but I think it's hard to have a fighting game with no blocking. Otherwise, wouldn't the person who just attacks like a maniac just win every time?

Ah, you have some assumptions at work here - assumptions which I specifically don't like to buy into.

Your first assumption is that a monster being hit by an attack cannot do an attack at the same time. This is a limitation of 2D engines, but not a limit in the Godzilla games.

Consider this thought experiment - I give monsters light & heavy attacks. Light attacks deal good dps (damage per second). Heavy attacks have higher damage per attack, but lower dps. Heavy attacks also knock the opponent around a bit, but don't knock them prone automatically. But when two heavy attacks collide, we select one (or more) monster to knock prone.

Now let's make a table of situations between two monsters: A and B.

A - standing still, B - light attack : in this case, B is doing huge dps to A.
A - standing still, B - heavy attack : in this case, B is doing damage to A, but less damage than light attacks would do.
A - light attack, B - light attack : in this case, both monsters are dealing significant dps. Catfight!
A - light attack, B - heavy attack : in this case, B knocks A away, so A doesn't land enough hits to out-damage B's attack.
A - heavy attack, B - light attack : the reverse of the above.
A - heavy attack, B - heavy attack: in this case, both monsters deal damage, but we select prone knockdowns for one or both monsters. Heavy attacks would have R-P-S properties (like in G:StE) to determine which attacks beat which.

So, overall we see that heavy attacks beat light attacks, but light attacks are better if not retaliated against.

Just a thought.

[matrix]

But its still not like batman right?

[Living Corpse]

Doesn't Manda have like, little tiny baby arms? T-Rex style? I feel like his whole move set should revolve around constricting, coiling, biting, head-butting and tail slapping. The only way I could see him using his limbs in combat without it looking hilarious would be to slice and claw an opponent he's already wrapped around.

Ah but video games don't have the same limits as suits and props, if Manda made it in they could give it some really insane moves like Voldo from Soul Calibur.

[Supergeon]

I think one of the things I am most excited about is Matt's art. The best Godzilla artists are Matt Frank, Bob Eggleton, and Noriyoshi Ohrai.

I am picturing the coolest character select screen, awesome logo and "box art". I would like to see some retro movie poster pictures drawn to promote the game down the line.

[Legionmaster]

You've hit upon one of my pet issues...

I would agree, but I think it's hard to have a fighting game with no blocking. Otherwise, wouldn't the person who just attacks like a maniac just win every time?

Ah, you have some assumptions at work here - assumptions which I specifically don't like to buy into.

Your first assumption is that a monster being hit by an attack cannot do an attack at the same time. This is a limitation of 2D engines, but not a limit in the Godzilla games.

Consider this thought experiment - I give monsters light & heavy attacks. Light attacks deal good dps (damage per second). Heavy attacks have higher damage per attack, but lower dps. Heavy attacks also knock the opponent around a bit, but don't knock them prone automatically. But when two heavy attacks collide, we select one (or more) monster to knock prone.

Now let's make a table of situations between two monsters: A and B.

A - standing still, B - light attack : in this case, B is doing huge dps to A.
A - standing still, B - heavy attack : in this case, B is doing damage to A, but less damage than light attacks would do.
A - light attack, B - light attack : in this case, both monsters are dealing significant dps. Catfight!
A - light attack, B - heavy attack : in this case, B knocks A away, so A doesn't land enough hits to out-damage B's attack.
A - heavy attack, B - light attack : the reverse of the above.
A - heavy attack, B - heavy attack: in this case, both monsters deal damage, but we select prone knockdowns for one or both monsters. Heavy attacks would have R-P-S properties (like in G:StE) to determine which attacks beat which.

So, overall we see that heavy attacks beat light attacks, but light attacks are better if not retaliated against.

Just a thought.

I think it's also sort of a psychological issue. I don't want to not have the ability to resist attacks. I don't want to mostly be forced to take whatever attacks are coming at me. I'll use your chart up there as an example. If I'm performing a light attack and see a heavy attack coming at me, based on your chart, I know I'm boned. But, if I'm quick enough, I can stop my faster attacks and block, preventing heavy attacks from beating my light attacks every single time. Otherwise, I'm just going to wail on you with heavy attacks, and the only downside seems to be that I may get knocked down. Not to mention, if I'm a monster with weaker attack power, there's almost no way I'm going to be able to get an advantage without relying solely on heavy attacks. I'm just wary of a fighting system that offers little defensive strategy beyond "move" and "hit back harder."

[Kaiju-King42]

Ya know, I did like the parry function in GU, except for Orga and Biollante. They looked silly doing the block function, and the computer did it all...the shreeonk...time!

[Oasis_S]

I think RIBBON DANCING would be a good place to find inspiration for Manda's moveset. It'd really be a shame to focus on his arms and legs.

I like the idea of Manda, almost BECAUSE he would be so hard to work with. Just trying to MAKE HIM WORK could turn out a really interesting character/playstyle. I was thinking, because he's such a slender monster, that it would be really hard to actually land attacks on him. But maybe that should be the idea? He could be a "hit-and-run" type of character, which I think would fit really well, since controlling that long body as it runs away and turns around COULD look really nice if he's animated well. Obviously, he'd be very fragile. Maybe even the MOST fragile monster.

How exactly would he even move though? I don't even like to think of that sluggish Manda in Destroy All Monsters. Manda is a marine monster, and I think reflecting that part of his character should take precedence over accuracy. That is, his movements on land should look as though he's "swimming" through the air. When ever he's still, or maybe even just walking (but not running), he could stand on his feet and walk with them I suppose. How exactly he should stand, I'm not sure. In a coiled up manner? Maybe something like this?: http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/43 ... _thumb.jpg

Would it be POSSIBLE for him to wrap around opponents as his grab? And if that's his grab, how will he pick up buildings (or rocks)? I guess if he WERE counted as a small, fragile character, then being able to pick up only SMALL objects with his mouth might work?

I see some difficulty with his inclusion, but it could be well worth it.

Oh, and I feel sorry for whoever has to animate Manda, lol.



And about no blocking... Where do beam attacks work into that table? Without blocking, wouldn't you just have to TAKE those? Is that... the point? Trying to make it more like the movies?

[Living Corpse]

Yeah that's why I keep mentiong Voldo from Soul Calibur, he has insane moves some of which involve him slithering like a snake that would work for a Manda's snake shape. Manda's rage move could be that he bites down on his own tail and rolls into the enemy knocking them down so can wrap around them and then constrict them.

Manda would need to be sort of "half standing" when near an enemy for some of these moves to work, but when not near the enemy he just lies/crawls flat on the ground like in the movies. Basically he'll be doing the same things only with his head, mouth, body and tail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQKdr1zwgVE

A cool Idea I have for a grapple and throw is Manda wraps his tail around them and holds his lower half up while the upper half uses it's claws to drag itself across the ground really fast before whipping it's tail in front and letting go, thus using the momentum to throw the enemy.

[Mr. Strange]

And about no blocking... Where do beam attacks work into that table? Without blocking, wouldn't you just have to TAKE those? Is that... the point? Trying to make it more like the movies?

Well, right now if players block beams they take half damage. I might ask, why make players wait 5 seconds, both immobile, to deal a set amount of damage?

But not blocking doesn't mean you can't respond, just as not blocking doesn't mean you can't respond to a heavy attack. It just means your response is something more active. A charging headbutt, for example.

[matrix]

So, are you making blocking or not? (I think you should)

[SpanishBulldog63]

Doesn't Manda have like, little tiny baby arms? T-Rex style? I feel like his whole move set should revolve around constricting, coiling, biting, head-butting and tail slapping. The only way I could see him using his limbs in combat without it looking hilarious would be to slice and claw an opponent he's already wrapped around.

They could always increase his arm length, like how they completely changed the back legs of Anguirus and Baragon.

His arms didn't strike me as that short, and at least look capable of CQC in comparison, but i see where you're getting at.They could increase the length, but at the same time im not sure it'll happen. S

Yeah that's why I keep mentiong Voldo from Soul Calibur, he has insane moves some of which involve him slithering like a snake that would work for a Manda's snake shape.

Some of the moves i put down had Voldo in mind,as well as influence from the Ouroborus(the giant serpent who's biting his tail to make a circle)...I think i'm going to go and revise some of his moves,still.

[Living Corpse]

You know I got to thinking, if we can't make Kamacaura's invisibility to work out normally in gameplay we could just have it be a rage move. The rage move could be once you activate it he flies forward right at the enemy and if the hit connects he automatically turns invisible and automatically starts flying around super fast, hitting the enemy with a barrage of claw swaps from several directions, front, side, behind, and the final hit knocks the enemy on the ground and Kamacura's turns visible again.

If player activates the rage attack and the first strike does not connect then the rage move is immediately canceled. The first strike must hit or just cancels.

This...holy shit I think we finally have an attack that makes Kamacuras a badass(or close to it)

Thanks bro.