New kaiju game from Matt Frank + Simon Strange [Archive]

[PopInPicsPresents]

Mr. Strange I was wondering, are there any possibilities of involving Kiryu's drilling hand? Or would the animation of having kiryu's hand forming and spinning into a drill be a bit much? The drill itself could be a grab attack replacement for the plasma blade grab?

Seems like more work than it is worth. "Morphing" the hand would be really hard - but we could try to fake it, if folks were insistent. Certainly we could just spin the hand and put some fx and audio over it.

Why not just have one of the hands in permanent drill mode? It would make for a really cool melee weapon.

[jdude1996]

^ I dont really like the sound of that

[Lenbo]

Here's a controls question - did anyone ever use the button-only combos? Things like A,B,X? Or did everyone just dis (dir)+Button all the time, and win the game with single-hits?

Very rarely. The reason players used the (dir)+Button moves all the time was because they came out quickly and were thus harder to predict/block, dealt more damage more quickly, and often resulted in knockdown, which basically made them more useful than the button-only combos ever were.

All of these reasons were exacerbated in G:U because you could only take out a health cell with a (dir)+Button move, and was thus the only way to defeat your opponent. This was despite single button mashing having more DPS.

---

Now for my thoughts/input/suggestions on other subjects:

Replay Feature from G:DAMM
- The replay from G:DAMM of the knock-out hit with various camera angles was really cool. Bring it back if possible.

“Comeback” mechanic
- A rage meter similar to other games (like Street Fighter 4 or X-Factor in Marvel vs. Capcom 3) which gives access to the use of super moves is a fun mechanic. When you get “defeated” there’s some way for you to save yourself, stay in the fight and possibly pull out a win creates tension and makes matches more exciting.
- The Rage moves from StE were fun and made each monster feel all the more unique and powerful. This was missed by many players in G:U.
- When you get “defeated” there’s some way for you to save yourself, stay in the fight and possibly pull out a win

Health System
Health cells are good, allow you to clearly tell who has more overall health. It was much clearer in G:U that monsters started out with different amounts of health compared to StE.

Information Clarity
In previous games, there was a definite problem of making everything clear to the player(s). This is why there is such widespread ignorance on how the systems and mechanics of previous Pipeworks Godzilla games functioned.
- Monster statistics/abilities need to be accessible/visible from some kind of monster profile screen (strengths/weaknesses, what damage types dealt/vulnerable to)
This could be accessible from the monster selection screen in single player games as it was in StE, but also from a separate monster profile screen accessible from the main menu. This could include a biography for each monster, a brief overview of their strengths/weaknesses to go along with an actual statistical breakdown (health, damage types dealt, resistances/weaknesses, speed etc.)
- Move list is a must. G:U didn't include this and it's a travesty as it essentially hid crucial information on how to play the game from the player. Many players didn't actually know how to play each monster because of this. How many people know Mothra Larva had an air grapple? I sure didn't until it happened by accident.
- Numerical representation of damage in StE was good (option to turn on/off would be welcome as I'm sure not everyone wants it visible).
- Clear visible feedback as to what moves are effective/ineffective against what monsters (through sound effects/graphical effects). I feel this was never effectively conveyed in any of the Pipeworks Godzilla games. Although G:DAMM probably did it best with the graphical effects when using physical attacks. It was never made clear enough that certain damage types healed other monsters in StE. I feel that moves dealing 0 damage is better than moves actually healing opponents.

Practice Mode
- Practice mode is a must, essential for new players to get the hang of things and for players to test out monsters. See any Capcom fighting game for example on how to do this.
- Tutorial would be appreciated as well, see Mortal Kombat 9 on how to do this well.

Online Play
GGPO networking system for online play seems to be the best solution for smooth online play. All I've ever heard from the fighting game community is this is preferable over other solutions as it makes online fighting games feel lag-free. Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix and the recent XBLA fighting game Skullgirls use it, and the feedback has been very positive.

- If this is going to be competitive, which if it's anything like StE it will be, then stat tracking (wins/losses) are a must. Also a player stats screen showing information like most used monster and wins/losses for each monster played would be appreciated. See Super Smash Bros. Brawl for a good example of this.

Free to Play
If this game turns out to be Free to Play, then monsters could be unlocked through spending points earned in any mode by simply playing the game or unlocked with real $$$. (See League of Legends or Uber Entertainment's Super Monday Night Combat for reference on how to do this well.)

Character Unlocking
If it's not Free to Play, make every playable monster unlocked from the get-go. Super Street Fighter 4 & Ultimate MvC3 had every character unlocked right from the get-go, allowing players to get right into the gameplay with anyone they want. This is preferable. I find the unlocking process of previous Pipeworks Godzilla games tedious.

Or if unlocking monsters is a must - make them easy to unlock. For example, playing through the Story Mode with each monster unlocks a new monster. Specifically, playing through the story with Godzilla would unlock Kiryu. Then playing through the Story Mode with Kiryu would unlock King Ghidorah. This way players are forced to experience playing every monster and getting a feel for how they work.

- Lenbo

[Megaton17]

So from what I can guess we won't be seeing kaiju redesigns?

Off topic, I've seen that Toho is very strict in the use of movie versions of monsters, but I've also wondered why the Uchusen art has been able to redesign monsters.

Back on topic, it would be cool to see battle damage in this game ala the DBZ games

[Godzillabrawler]

@Lenbo: My jaw hit the floor. I couldn't have said it any better myself.

[Oasis_S]

Lots of good ideas from Lenbo.

I feel like the "comeback mechanic" may be a bit tricky, though I know lots of games have it. I kind of like the idea of how it's done in Unleashed. It's very similar to how the Smash Ball works in Brawl. Unlike Brawl though, the crystals used to obtain Critical Mass were ever-present. Do away with that, and just relegate Rage to an occasionally appearing crystal (or any other substitute, maybe a special UFO). The crystal should appear nearest the monster with the lowest health.

What I like about having it in a crystal is that getting Rage is not simply an AUTOMATIC thing, or a thing that the fastest monster gets. While you do have the advantage of getting to it first, you still have to break it apart. You still have to EARN IT. And DESTROYING STUFF is very at home in a Godzilla game, so I like that aspect of it too.

If you want to make it completely like Smash and put it into a glowing UFO or something that moves while you try to hit it, that might be cool too. It fits that party aspect of the Pipeworks Godzilla series. Maybe BOTH? Each would give you a different move... I dunno. Speaking of items and power-ups, you might want to think about polishing up the idea from StE of using certain buildings/objects as weapons. Making every interactable object a throwing item is kind of boring. Doesn't necessarily have to be, though. Maybe certain objects would explode and send debris flying in all directions on impact. Explosive buildings... VARIETY IS ALWAYS WELCOME. Of course, focus on the core gameplay first before doing any crazy stuff. If that's not fun, then nothing else will be.

EVEN THOUGH THIS POST IS ALREADY MUCH LONGER THAN I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE: I had a really simple idea. It's always fun to recreate battles from the films, so since pretty much EVERY fan is going to do that, why not just make that it's own mode? Legacy Mode I guess you'd call it. While that might be fine by itself, I'd like it so that you didn't have to play with/as Godzilla pretty much every battle. Y'know, variety. So how about instead, you have a battle to represent each film (possibly more than one per film in some cases)? You'd be presented with a list of all the Godzilla films, and you'd have the option of selecting just one or playing through all of them. If you play through them all, it would keep track of your score. You could also select whichever monster you wanted, pretty much just inserting it into the battle in Godzilla's place. For example, if you picked Gabara (I would!), then when you got to the Godzilla vs. Gigan stage, the battle would be Gabara & Anguirus vs. Gigan & King Ghidorah.

I tried making a list, and even with a bit of cutting, that's about 30 separate battles. It would be a REALLY long playthrough (maybe you get something special for beating it, lol), but at least it would be neat as a fan to go through recognizable battles in chronological order. And it's a history lesson for the non-fans out there, lol. The loading screen before each battle could even be a picture of the respective movie poster. :3

It's too bad King Kong vs Godzilla would have to be skipped.

[Oasis_S]

Yeah, Godzilla is more of a party game, so maybe following Street Fighter like that isn't the best.

Didn't DAMM have the latter unlocking method you suggested, Lenbo? That is a pretty good method. I just hope I don't suck terribly with one particular monster which leaves me unable to unlock one or two other monsters, lol.

[Mr. Strange]

Replay Feature from G:DAMM
- The replay from G:DAMM of the knock-out hit with various camera angles was really cool. Bring it back if possible.

Sorry to start on a sour note, but the Spigot engine added too much complexity to bring this back the way it was in G:DAMM. I have some ideas about replacements, but this is probably not a top priority due to the costs involved.

“Comeback” mechanic
- When you get “defeated” there’s some way for you to save yourself, stay in the fight and possibly pull out a win

This is the direction we've been discussing - I think it's the best thematic fit for a Kaiju game - sort of like "battle overtime" - you might just lose when your health goes to zero, but you might come back in a stronger attack/weaker defense form to keep trying. Could lead to some epic battles.

Health System
Health cells are good, allow you to clearly tell who has more overall health. It was much clearer in G:U that monsters started out with different amounts of health compared to StE.

Information Clarity
In previous games, there was a definite problem of making everything clear to the player(s). This is why there is such widespread ignorance on how the systems and mechanics of previous Pipeworks Godzilla games functioned.

Putting monster stats on the vs screen is tricky - because you have 1/4 or less of the screen to work with. Since we'll be starting on PC, a hover-over solution would probably work really well.

I really like numbers - they are nice and clear. I'm considering replacing the entire health bar with a defense # (sort of like Smash Bros) to really drive that sort of thing home. A number also helps fit 4 player HUDs on the screen - which is always a problem.

Practice Mode
- Practice mode is a must, essential for new players to get the hang of things and for players to test out monsters. See any Capcom fighting game for example on how to do this.
- Tutorial would be appreciated as well, see Mortal Kombat 9 on how to do this well.

A well-implemented practice mode is quite a lot of work. My preference is to allow the AI to be turned down to "very easy" - which gives you most of the same practice opportunities, without all the engineering overhead.

Online Play
GGPO networking system for online play seems to be the best solution for smooth online play. All I've ever heard from the fighting game community is this is preferable over other solutions as it makes online fighting games feel lag-free. Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix and the recent XBLA fighting game Skullgirls use it, and the feedback has been very positive.

The idea behind GGPO, as described in that article, is exactly how Spigot already deals with networking. I felt really clever when I designed that system in 2004. I always thought StE had some of the best online combat ever.

- If this is going to be competitive, which if it's anything like StE it will be, then stat tracking (wins/losses) are a must. Also a player stats screen showing information like most used monster and wins/losses for each monster played would be appreciated. See Super Smash Bros. Brawl for a good example of this.

This is a ton of work, but I'm inclined to prioritize it. Since the design of the game (and how we spend our time/money) is going to be handled through online discussion, you should make sure everyone else here agrees with us.

Free to Play
If this game turns out to be Free to Play, then monsters could be unlocked through spending points earned in any mode by simply playing the game or unlocked with real $$$. (See League of Legends or Uber Entertainment's Super Monday Night Combat for reference on how to do this well.)

The game might cost $0, but it would not be Free to Play. "Free to Play" means there is a way to spend money inside the game - that absolutely won't be the case with this game.

Character Unlocking
If it's not Free to Play, make every playable monster unlocked from the get-go. Super Street Fighter 4 & Ultimate MvC3 had every character unlocked right from the get-go, allowing players to get right into the gameplay with anyone they want. This is preferable. I find the unlocking process of previous Pipeworks Godzilla games tedious.

Or if unlocking monsters is a must - make them easy to unlock. For example, playing through the Story Mode with each monster unlocks a new monster. Specifically, playing through the story with Godzilla would unlock Kiryu. Then playing through the Story Mode with Kiryu would unlock King Ghidorah. This way players are forced to experience playing every monster and getting a feel for how they work.

We could be more creative here - why not allow unlocking for single-player, but let everything be available for multiplayer from the get-go? I also think non-critical unlocks, like visual flair on your monster, is a good thing to let players unlock for multiplayer modes - like portraits or titles or the like.

[Oasis_S]

I also think non-critical unlocks, like visual flair on your monster, is a good thing to let players unlock for multiplayer modes - like portraits or titles or the like.

Or Godzilla with a top hat.

[Godz]

To those wanting a training mode....just set up a 2P match with no one manning the 2P controller. Simple fix, no? And it won't cost any extra dev dollars. I get that it wont have the fleshed out AI actions (like always jump, duck, etc, like Capcom games) but I don't think its essential to the game. IMO these style brawlers don't have near the complexity of a Capcom fighter.

[JVM]

Here's an idea for Training mode, that I think sits in line for Mr. Strange's idea - add Training as a difficulty level rather than a mode:

Training
Easy
Medium/Normal
Hard

Maybe even toss in an "Insane/Advanced/Expert" difficulty after Hard, too.

[PopInPicsPresents]

How does everybody feel about really long button combos?

Maybe instead of a Rage move, players can pull off some sort of long combo and unleash an ultimate attack of sorts.

[Fiender]

I have a suggestion, not sure how much attention it'll draw.

Something I felt was missing from all of the games was ambiance in the cities. It felt like I was punching giant cardboard boxes, not buildings. And it felt too much like a giant city set from a Toho movie, not an actual city.

People running on the streets in giant crowds, cities gridlocked with cars trying to flee, buildings that are fun to destroy even if they aren't photo-realistic. At night (if you add that option), the buildings and streets should light up and give your monster the chance to make it all go dark >:)

[JVM]

^ More detail, less maps.

More maps, less detail.

It's a tough line to walk, my man.

[PopInPicsPresents]

^ More detail, less maps.

More maps, less detail.

It's a tough line to walk, my man.

Why not have a vote?

[Mr. Strange]

I have a suggestion, not sure how much attention it'll draw.

Something I felt was missing from all of the games was ambiance in the cities. It felt like I was punching giant cardboard boxes, not buildings. And it felt too much like a giant city set from a Toho movie, not an actual city.

People running on the streets in giant crowds, cities gridlocked with cars trying to flee, buildings that are fun to destroy even if they aren't photo-realistic. At night (if you add that option), the buildings and streets should light up and give your monster the chance to make it all go dark >:)

In G:DAMM, there were working streetlights, cars that followed them (until the monsters got close!), news helicopters, busses running schedules, park benches, and more. Almost 10% of our processing time was spent on the "living city" elements.

We even tried people fleeing from crumbling buildings - but they were basically too tiny to see.

It was my opinion, when we started working on StE, that pretty much all of that was a waste. Even the tanks and military firing at your was mostly a waste - because nobody noticed it. (Except the freeze tanks, or monster air strikes)

[hammysammy59]

Obviously time and money would have to go into little effects like tanks and stuff, but is it also an issue of scale? The monsters in the Pipeworks games were scaled up to meet the sizes of the Heisei monsters, right? The Showa series is by far my favorite, and likely the most famous... it also features significantly smaller monsters. While it might make the monsters a little less awe-inspiring, it makes them able to have much more meaningful interactions with humans, and human-sized vehicles. I'd love to see Showa size monsters in this game.

[Lenbo]

This is the direction we've been discussing - I think it's the best thematic fit for a Kaiju game - sort of like "battle overtime" - you might just lose when your health goes to zero, but you might come back in a stronger attack/weaker defense form to keep trying. Could lead to some epic battles.

Street Fighter x Tekken has an interesting comeback mechanic called Pandora Mode. You can activate it when you have less than 25% health, which then kills your tag partner (if he's still alive), you then get a maxed-out super meter, but a timer then begins to count down, and at the end of 8 seconds you die.

Something along those lines would be interesting. Like as soon as you lose, you become more powerful than ever, but have a limited time to try to KO your opponent. If the opponent lands a hit on you, you're out for good. Think of this in a 3-4 player game. The first person to "lose" has the potential to take out everyone all by himself!

Putting monster stats on the vs screen is tricky - because you have 1/4 or less of the screen to work with. Since we'll be starting on PC, a hover-over solution would probably work really well.

Yeah, or hold down left trigger or something to view stats of the monster you currently have selected.

I really like numbers - they are nice and clear. I'm considering replacing the entire health bar with a defense # (sort of like Smash Bros) to really drive that sort of thing home. A number also helps fit 4 player HUDs on the screen - which is always a problem.

That could definitely work. Also important to note how Smash Bros' number changes to red the more damage the player takes.

If a health meter is used, a good example of clearly displaying health is DOTA 2. The meters are segmented (like StE's energy meter), but in a way that it's clear at a glance which characters have more health than others. The more segments on the health meter, the more health they have.

The idea behind GGPO, as described in that article, is exactly how Spigot already deals with networking. I felt really clever when I designed that system in 2004. I always thought StE had some of the best online combat ever.

It did have very good online combat... with 2 players. 3-4 player matches online had a tendency to get very choppy. We should strive to make it silky smooth no matter how many players there are. Mario Kart Wii for some reason had the most lag-free online mode I've ever seen. Or at least did the most amazing job hiding the lag. And that was with 12 players... on the Wii.

We could be more creative here - why not allow unlocking for single-player, but let everything be available for multiplayer from the get-go? I also think non-critical unlocks, like visual flair on your monster, is a good thing to let players unlock for multiplayer modes - like portraits or titles or the like.

I don't mind this idea except I imagine it might "cheapen" unlocking characters in single-player, if you can just switch to multiplayer to play as them anyways... I'm not sure how other people feel about this.

---

Some more thoughts:

Unlockable Content Ideas
Concept art, 3D monster renders, aesthetic changes (Burning Godzilla for Godzilla 90s), portraits, titles, taunts, alternate victory animations, alternate roars are all cool unlockable content.

Gameplay Ideas
Rolling - I liked rolling gameplay-wise, but as a concept in the Godzilla universe I always thought it was a bit silly. I think Godzilla rolled maybe once or twice in the films, and never for extended periods of time. Visually, rolling looks ridiculous as well. I think perhaps not all monsters should roll, or when they do, have a different animation. Seeing monsters like King Ghidorah or Destoroyah roll seemed really odd. Not sure how other people feel about this.

Get-up Attacks - These were always pretty cool in my opinion. G:U probably did them best animation-wise. However, I think it would be interesting to give monsters multiple get-up attacks. For example: Godzilla could have one where he use hes claws to slash as he gets up, another where he uses his tail, and another where you can use your Atomic Breath/Fireball. It would be really satisfying to blast your opponent from a prone position as you get up. Each could do a different damage type.

This would make get-up attacks more interesting as players will have choices of what they want to do, rather than just roll and use the same get-up attack over and over. It would make the outcome of knocking down an opponent less predictable as suddenly you're not sure what your opponent is going to strike back with.

Survival Mode
This mode has become rather popular of late with AAA games (Call of Duty, Gears of War, Halo, Batman: Arkham City) really have taken it and added their own spin.

If Survival Mode is included, it would ideally support leaderboards. Comparing your high scores to your friends and the world gives this mode longevity and incredible replay value besides just trying to best your own high score.

There are all sorts of possible Godzilla-centric scenarios as well. Monsters vs. Military or Aliens, Monsters vs. Multiple Kamacuras, Final Wars Godzilla vs. Everyone etc.

Of course the standard-keep-fighting-monsters-until-you-die is fun as it is. What I think would be really fun would be a Co-op Survival Mode. You and another monster take on waves of AI controlled opponents. Each team of enemies would be actual team-ups from Godzilla films (Godzilla/Rodan, Godzilla/Anguirus, Kumonga/Kamacuras, Gigan/King Ghidorah, Godzilla/Jet Jaguar, Gigan/Megalon, MechaG/Titanosaurus, Mothra/Battra, GMK Mothra/King Ghidorah, Kiryu/Mothra, Monster X/Gigan,).

I'm sure people could come up with other scenarios or ideas for a Godzilla spin on Survival Mode.

- Lenbo

[JVM]

Obviously time and money would have to go into little effects like tanks and stuff, but is it also an issue of scale? The monsters in the Pipeworks games were scaled up to meet the sizes of the Heisei monsters, right? The Showa series is by far my favorite, and likely the most famous... it also features significantly smaller monsters. While it might make the monsters a little less awe-inspiring, it makes them able to have much more meaningful interactions with humans, and human-sized vehicles. I'd love to see Showa size monsters in this game.

Have to agree with this actually. A Showa scale would be interesting to see.

[Goji]

Yeah, or hold down left trigger or something to view stats of the monster you currently have selected.

Viewing the monsters stats doesn't need to be an option in-game. Having them viewable at the character select screen (like they always have been) is perfectly fine.

It did have very good online combat... with 2 players. 3-4 player matches online had a tendency to get very choppy. We should strive to make it silky smooth no matter how many players there are. Mario Kart Wii for some reason had the most lag-free online mode I've ever seen. Or at least did the most amazing job hiding the lag. And that was with 12 players... on the Wii.

The online play was actually quit good..maybe you just had a bad experience with it *shrugs*. I played matches with four players all the time, and it was very rarely choppy. Two player matches were always spot on for me.

Comparing the online to play to a game that came out 4 years later on completely different hardware (Mario Kart Wii) seems like a pretty unfair fair comparison if you ask me.

Rolling - I liked rolling gameplay-wise, but as a concept in the Godzilla universe I always thought it was a bit silly. I think Godzilla rolled maybe once or twice in the films, and never for extended periods of time. Visually, rolling looks ridiculous as well. I think perhaps not all monsters should roll, or when they do, have a different animation. Seeing monsters like King Ghidorah or Destoroyah roll seemed really odd. Not sure how other people feel about.

Again, this is a video game, not a movie. The monsters are going to have certain actions that don't necessarily represent what they did in the films. Rolling is added for the sake of balance, because it allows you to escape what may otherwise be inescapable situations. It's been in Tekeen for decades for a reason.

Having only some monsters roll would be horrible unbalanced. I am highly against it.