Toho's bad decision making

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Toho's bad decision making

Postby tenup » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:46 am

I just wanted to discuss some of the worst decisions Toho has made over the past decades. One of their bad decisions that sticks out most at the moment is their restrictions over director Shuzuke Kenoko's original GVA idea. Although I still consider GMK to be the movie to beat, it did seem to suffer from plot holes due to the major substitutions of Mothra and Ghidorah. I'm sure Kenoko did his best with what Toho forced upon him. Toho decided to use marketable monsters in replacement of Varan and Anguirus in a film that was designed to be a different format from the typical sci fi element that Godzilla usually represents. This imo did more harm than good. To make matters worst Toho decided to re-use Mothra in 2 more films following GMK which makes it seem like they could have at least did away with Mothra in GMK. Don't get me wrong Mothra is one of Toho's most successful monsters, but she was over used in the millennium series.

Another bad Toho decision that comes to mind is GFW. The movie itself just proves Toho just gave up on making quality Godzilla films. I would like to read the comments from the rest of you on TK because Toho is not exempt from screwing up Godzilla.

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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby Tamura » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:03 am

1. Creating the most lackluster DVD and Blu-ray transfers of any major home video company out there.
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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby hammysammy59 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:03 pm

Regarding GMK, I don't think GAV would have been a better movie. Maybe more neato to us fanboys, but that doesn't necessarily equate a better movie. Instead of Godzilla facing a quadrupedal dino-monster, a tri-headed dragon and a giant moth, he would have faced a quadrupedal dino-monster, a quadrupedal dino-monster, and a quadrupedal dino-monster. What sounds more visually interesting to you?

And Mothra being a sea/water-guardian is a stretch, but Anguirus barely looks like he can swim, let alone be the god-monster of oceans and rivers.
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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby Tohosaurus » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:13 pm

hammysammy59 wrote:Regarding GMK, I don't think GAV would have been a better movie. Maybe more neato to us fanboys, but that doesn't necessarily equate a better movie. Instead of Godzilla facing a quadrupedal dino-monster, a tri-headed dragon and a giant moth, he would have faced a quadrupedal dino-monster, a quadrupedal dino-monster, and a quadrupedal dino-monster. What sounds more visually interesting to you?

And Mothra being a sea/water-guardian is a stretch, but Anguirus barely looks like he can swim, let alone be the god-monster of oceans and rivers.

Wouldn't Varan have been the water dweller?

Anyhow, I agree with you. Toho didn't make a "bad decision" really. Sure, I've called for a different guardian monster roster in GMK, but Toho used Mothra and King Ghidorah for the cashability factor that those two names have. Coincidence or not, GMK performed strongly relative to other Millennium films. So while we fans can decry the inclusion of King Ghidorah as a protagonist, it still wasn't a bad decision for Toho's bottom line and the overall success of the movie.

I think Toho makes some bad decisions, but GMK wasn't one of them.
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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby hammysammy59 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:53 pm

Tohosaurus wrote:Wouldn't Varan have been the water dweller?


That's right, he lives in a lake doesn't he? It's been a while. I just assigned him the role of air guardian because... well he's a hell of a lot better at flying/gliding than the other two dudes, unless you count when Godzilla sends Baragon flying. ;)
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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby Dr. Nishiyama » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:15 pm

They give Final Wars to Kitamura when they should've given the project to Kaneko (I know they were counting on releasing GFW theatrically worldwide and Kitamura is "internationally renowned", but with Kaneko it would've been a sure thing, since GMK almost made it to US theaters)

If a movies flops (Sayonara Juptiter, Biollante, Megaguirus) they still let the director make another expensive movie (Hashimoto with ROG, Omori with King Ghidorah, Tezuka with GxMG)

Making the Godzilla films exclusively for children in the late 60s and 70s. If they kept a general target audience and treated each movie like they did with their disaster films of the period, who knows what movies we could've got or how long the series would've continued.

Not taking advantage of the alternate timelines of the millennium series (we could've had a continuation of the showa era for one entry and a continuation of the heisei era for another)

It seems every G film after Biollante focussed on Godzilla's cells in some way and that got pretty tired fast)

making Godzilla VS Spacegodzilla

making Godzilla VS Megaguirus

Not firing Kawakita after Biollante, which had his last solid FX work.

Banning Prophecies of Nostradamus

Banning Half Human

Making fat, stiff, immobile monster suits in the 90s

Making stiff, immobile flying props in the 90s

Asking lackluster composers back (Takayuki Hattori had an average score with Space Godzilla, then had a completely unmemorable score with G2000)

Not asking Reijiro Koroku back to score another G film

Submersion of Japan and Yamato Takeru were the effects films Toho remade (and they SUCKED). Would be awesome if they did War of the Gargantuas, Gorath, or Atragon.

Adding KG and Mothra to GMK. Sorry, but they're characters, no matter how to change them, simply don't FIT with the story. When I think of Mothra, I think of the sky, not the water)

Barely having Godzilla in G2000.

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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby Ethan » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:59 pm

Making Godzilla 2000 so soon after the Heisei series had ended.
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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby Killswitch » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:54 pm

Yes, Toho has made some bad decisions, but how many of their projects lost money? I would guess and say not many.

As a Godzilla fan, my biggest complaint has been the poor overall quality of the films. Give me quality instead of quantity. Take your time and give me one great movie, instead of three average ones.

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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby Malchik » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:59 pm

Tamura wrote:1. Creating the most lackluster DVD and Blu-ray transfers of any major home video company out there.

^The million-dollar answer.

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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby Ethan » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:08 pm

Tamura wrote:1. Creating the most lackluster DVD and Blu-ray transfers of any major home video company out there.

That would be Lucasfilm.
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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby Malchik » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:39 pm

Ethan wrote:
Tamura wrote:1. Creating the most lackluster DVD and Blu-ray transfers of any major home video company out there.

That would be Lucasfilm.

Yeah, can't argue that.

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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby edgaguirus » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:16 pm

Their most recent would be choosing Kitamura as director of GFW.

Another would be rushing a sequel for Gojira. GRA isn't a bad movie, but it could have had a better script and story.
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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby JVM » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:57 pm

Making any Godzilla films at all.
I don't think I saw the same movies as the rest of you.
I'll always miss Vega.

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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby RedZillaKing » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:31 pm

JVM wrote:Making any Godzilla films at all.


Um, wut? Nope.

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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby ScootaVaran » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:11 pm

JVM wrote:Making any Godzilla films at all.


*Edit*
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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby hammysammy59 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:23 am

Dooooooon't feed the trolls!
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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby Shadow » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:10 pm

hammysammy59 wrote:Dooooooon't feed the trolls!


They gotta eat sometime.
But Toho has made some bad decision making in the past. But who hasn't?
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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby JVM » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:27 pm

I'm half-kidding guys. It WAS a bad decision, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
I don't think I saw the same movies as the rest of you.
I'll always miss Vega.

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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby g2kmaster » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:39 pm

Here's a bad decision: trying to shut down the production of SEVEN SAMURAI so much. Sure, Kurosawa would just go fishing because he knew that the film had too much spent on it for it to just be tossed asside hence it would go back into production, but think about the wasted time.

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Re: Toho's bad decision making

Postby Mincecraft » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:49 pm

hammysammy59 wrote:Regarding GMK, I don't think GAV would have been a better movie. Maybe more neato to us fanboys, but that doesn't necessarily equate a better movie. Instead of Godzilla facing a quadrupedal dino-monster, a tri-headed dragon and a giant moth, he would have faced a quadrupedal dino-monster, a quadrupedal dino-monster, and a quadrupedal dino-monster. What sounds more visually interesting to you?

And Mothra being a sea/water-guardian is a stretch, but Anguirus barely looks like he can swim, let alone be the god-monster of oceans and rivers.


That, my friend, would go to Varan.


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