Does This Statement Hold any Truth with our Fanbase?

[Svitska Donkun]

For years and years now it seems like the fanboys want their stories to be taken seriously, and not dismissed/or looking down upon by the general public. It's resulted in an era of just nothing but dark, gritty, grit, with lots of darkness (and grit!). Anything that could even remotely be considered camp is scorned. Yet, I can't tell you how many times I've seen those fanboys, as soon as someone does indeed try to discuss the stories seriously (and critically); instantly lash out with the old defense of "but it's just a comic book film, you can't take it so seriously!"

This was a quote taken from RT, which was used in response to a post on TDKR.

I think this idea applies to our fanbase more than most, though. I've witnessed something extremely ironic evolve with the fandom over the years. People hold Godzilla '54 on a pedestal and try and throw it in everyone's face. They use it as some kind of fall back to justify the franchise's existence and use it to say what the franchise should be. But that's not really what it is. The thing I find really funny is that most of you, if not all(except the "ascended fans"), had never even seen the original Godzilla film before 2004, when it was released uncut in America. Now that its been out for seven years, people like to use it as an excuse for Godzilla to "finally be taken seriously" and move away from stereotypes considered "negative". I have seen many people say stuff like this in regards to the new Godzilla film supposedly being released eventually. I have seen more than one post saying "Godzilla needs to be exactly what they did for TDK Trilogy". People freaked out when they got Goyer on it cause he worked for Nolan. People even wanted him to direct, if I recall. What I find funny about this is at its heart, yes, the core of the character is NOT a serious one. You can throw the original film at me all you want, but it just isn't the truth. He wasn't even really a character in that film. Just a force. Godzilla is as he is defined in everything post GRA. those movies, which make up the majority of his film library are what he is defined as. Just like how Josh Weinstein isn't the definitive Tom Servo, the Godzilla from the 1954 movie is not the definitive Godzilla. I'm willing to bet that anyone here younger than, like, 40, is a fan because of the films they watched on TV growing up. Stuff like Son of Godzilla or Godzilla vs. Monster Zero. If they are younger fans, maybe even some Heisei films mixed in(Which if you watched the Showa films simultaneously, probably confused the shit out of you due to continuity issues.). You remember getting hyped about see Godzilla 2000 in theaters. Sure maybe a few of you fell in love with KTOM, but that was certainly more in line with other Godzilla fare we'd have access to, unlike the Uncut Film. Point is, I feel like a lot of Godzilla fans forgot why they love Godzilla in the first place and want it to be something it really isn't. =/

[TokyoVigilante]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. It's a horrible misunderstanding of what constitutes mature content. It's the exact same justification I saw in my younger days for how great the Heisei films are; "they aren't campy". Like hell.

I'm positive it has improved, but it used to be alot worse. I remember when the mere presence of the Shobijin was enough justification for a film to be considered bad, or Godzilla dancing on Monster Zero was obsessively mocked and the rest of what is overall a great film was completely ignored.

[Space Hunter M]

Almost everything Donkun said is valid. I'm sick and tired of all this "dark and scarry" equals mature shit. Hell, my first films were Ebirah and Megalon.

[Shōbijin]

They could make the first Legendary G-film dead serious and each sequel sillier and sillier like in the original movies.

[Svitska Donkun]

They could make the first Legendary G-film dead serious and each sequel sillier and sillier like in the original movies.

Sorry to be blunt....but 1.)that's a terrible idea and 2.) not in anyway how modern day Hollywood works or allow things to work. It just doesn't make sense, nor would it. You also have to account that sequels are more hypothetical than whether the movie ever gets made. And even if a sequel was made you just can;t change the entire tone...like...wut? Brain...hurts...

[Shōbijin]

They could make the first Legendary G-film dead serious and each sequel sillier and sillier like in the original movies.

Sorry to be blunt....but 1.)that's a terrible idea and 2.) not in anyway how modern day Hollywood works or allow things to work. It just doesn't make sense, nor would it. You also have to account that sequels are more hypothetical than whether the movie ever gets made. And even if a sequel was made you just can;t change the entire tone...like...wut? Brain...hurts...

It was meant ironic.

[Inferno Rodan]

I completely agree. The source of the quote is especially appropriate considering how many people say LP Godzilla should be like TDK. It's laughable. Something more along the lines of Iron Man or Transformers would be FAR more appropriate (not to mention enjoyable) for Godzilla than The Dark Knight.

[SuperSaiyan4Godzilla]

This statement is partially true. You forget about the people that care to much about the original source material. They act the same way, sans the grit and darkness. Often times, too overbearing and over-protective.

[Tohosaurus]

Svitska Donkun's post is exceptionally valid, though I do hold certain reservations as I'll address here:

People hold Godzilla '54 on a pedestal and try and throw it in everyone's face. They use it as some kind of fall back to justify the franchise's existence and use it to say what the franchise should be. But that's not really what it is.

Well, it is almost undoubtedly a huge reason, if not the reason. Had Godzilla not been as message-laden, serious, and ideological as it was in 1954, there's not a very good chance we'd have seen 27 sequels (plus Emmerich's installment). Godzilla would've just become another piece of 50s-60s sci-fi cinema akin to The Giant Mantis, Rodan, Gorgo, or other monster movies (many ironically inspired by the original Godzilla anyways). Had Godzilla been something like Son of Godzilla --and bless that film's heart, no joke-- then you can bet your grain that the franchise would've never been granted with so little as the chance to have become so influential and vast. The reality is Godzilla was powerful movie, not just entertainment. So to use Godzilla as justification for why the franchise exists to the depths that it does today, I'd argue, is more than credible.

What I find funny about this is at its heart, yes, the core of the character is NOT a serious one. You can throw the original film at me all you want, but it just isn't the truth. He wasn't even really a character in that film. Just a force. Godzilla is as he is defined in everything post GRA. those movies, which make up the majority of his film library are what he is defined as.

We could go back and forth on what exactly the "truth" is. Factually, yes, most of the films aren't half as serious as the few, including the original or Return of Godzilla. But many of the most appreciated films in the fanbase (including numerous posters here) are actually the serious ones, your Godzillas, Biollantes, GMKs, et cetera. So none of us is in some position to tell any of the others what Godzilla is and should be. Part of why Godzilla's movie series has been so long in the running is probably due to his versatility. He was serious when it was appropriate, when making more than just entertainment was not the point. Godzilla also was able to become a barely-willing superhero and camp it up. When cinema in Japan dictated that a more family friendly tone was key, Godzilla could be child friendly too. And it isn't limited to those three different types. They mix and match as needed.

THAT is the beauty of Godzilla in my opinion. Godzilla can be what you want him to be, a superhero for your kids or some sort of walking atom bomb that warns us of our destructive nature. These days, people love dark movies. Frankly, I love dark movies (though hardly limit myself to such, which comes as no surprise from a big Godzilla fan). If that is what's necessary for Legendary to make the film succeed financially and socially, so be it. If they just want an action movie that doesn't take itself so seriously, then so be it. Again, Godzilla is more versatile than most characters. We as fans know this better than the naysayers.

I'm willing to bet that anyone here younger than, like, 40, is a fan because of the films they watched on TV growing up. Stuff like Son of Godzilla or Godzilla vs. Monster Zero. Point is, I feel like a lot of Godzilla fans forgot why they love Godzilla in the first place and want it to be something it really isn't. =/

I can't speak for anyone else, but I will tell you this. I grew up watching the Showa movies. I loved them and I loved Godzilla. But I loved giant monsters smashing things and brawling. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have preferred all of one type, such as the franchise having mostly dark, serious, "mature" movies. The Showa movies could've had any tone. It wouldn't have mattered. I was young and giant monsters were wreaking havoc on the cities. That was the appeal, not a campy tone or anything like that. I suspect I'm not alone. Anyhow, that's my point, which is to say many of us probably fell in love with Godzilla films because of the basic essence, not the tones or messages.

[Ethan]

This boils down to The Mainstream Audience ®'s views on Godzilla. There is a backwards logic present, which suggests a "dark, gritty and deep" film will magically change people's general perception on the character, miraculously rewriting 40+ years of history. It's no secret that many fans are creepy zealots, often rejected by society, these subjects have the futile hope that they will be seen in a different (positive) light, should people change their mind on Godzilla.

[Tohosaurus]

This boils down to The Mainstream Audience ®'s views on Godzilla. There is a backwards logic present, which suggests a "dark, gritty and deep" film will magically change people's general perception on the character, miraculously rewriting 40+ years of history. It's no secret that many fans are creepy zealots, often rejected by society, these subjects have the futile hope that they will be seen in a different (positive) light, should people change their mind on Godzilla.

That's true also.

[SuperSaiyan4Godzilla]

I'm willing to bet that anyone here younger than, like, 40, is a fan because of the films they watched on TV growing up. Stuff like Son of Godzilla or Godzilla vs. Monster Zero. Point is, I feel like a lot of Godzilla fans forgot why they love Godzilla in the first place and want it to be something it really isn't. =/

I can't speak for anyone else, but I will tell you this. I grew up watching the Showa movies. I loved them and I loved Godzilla. But I loved giant monsters smashing things and brawling. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have preferred all of one type, such as the franchise having mostly dark, serious, "mature" movies. The Showa movies could've had any tone. It wouldn't have mattered. I was young and giant monsters were wreaking havoc on the cities. That was the appeal, not a campy tone or anything like that. I suspect I'm not alone. Anyhow, that's my point, which is to say many of us probably fell in love with Godzilla films because of the basic essence, not the tones or messages.

Same thing. I didn't (and still don't, at times) care about the quality of the film. Hell, if it wasn't for the Heisei and Millennium series, I probably would have grown out of Godzilla like every normal person has.

[therealmccoy]

Same thing. I didn't (and still don't, at times) care about the quality of the film. Hell, if it wasn't for the Heisei and Millennium series, I probably would have grown out of Godzilla like every normal person has.

It's amazing how the Godzilla movies in the last twenty years have made the older and more dedicated fans really appreciate more what made him famous. I enjoy both the dark and the light-hearted/campy Godzilla; but lately I've preferred the campy side a lot more. I understand what he was intended to be, but I also realize what he eventually turned into and is mostly recognized for.

[SuperSaiyan4Godzilla]

Same thing. I didn't (and still don't, at times) care about the quality of the film. Hell, if it wasn't for the Heisei and Millennium series, I probably would have grown out of Godzilla like every normal person has.

It's amazing how the Godzilla movies in the last twenty years have made the older and more dedicated fans really appreciate more what made him famous. I enjoy both the dark and the light-hearted/campy Godzilla; but lately I've preferred the campy side a lot more. I understand what he was intended to be, but I also realize what he eventually turned into and is mostly recognized for.

Oh, I absolutely love the Heisei and Millennium films and probably watch them more than the Showa films. I was saying that the last two series gave me something to look forward too. The entertainment kept coming, even if the movies weren't that good.

If I only had the Showa films to watch, I would have become bored of Godzilla and stopped watching.

[HayesAJones]

I think a lot of fans do like to have what they enjoy taken seriously, but I also think just as many embrace the camp factor.

[Living Corpse]

I'm willing to bet that anyone here younger than, like, 40, is a fan because of the films they watched on TV growing up. Stuff like Son of Godzilla or Godzilla vs. Monster Zero. Point is, I feel like a lot of Godzilla fans forgot why they love Godzilla in the first place and want it to be something it really isn't. =/

My first G film was King of The Monsters at age 6 after I got it for Christmas. So I can't speak for anyone else but when I think of Godzilla the 1954 version is the first one that pops in my head and is to me the Godzilla. Just saying.

[Inferno Rodan]

Well, it is almost undoubtedly a huge reason, if not the reason. Had Godzilla not been as message-laden, serious, and ideological as it was in 1954, there's not a very good chance we'd have seen 27 sequels (plus Emmerich's installment). Godzilla would've just become another piece of 50s-60s sci-fi cinema akin to The Giant Mantis, Rodan, Gorgo, or other monster movies (many ironically inspired by the original Godzilla anyways). Had Godzilla been something like Son of Godzilla --and bless that film's heart, no joke-- then you can bet your grain that the franchise would've never been granted with so little as the chance to have become so influential and vast. The reality is Godzilla was powerful movie, not just entertainment. So to use Godzilla as justification for why the franchise exists to the depths that it does today, I'd argue, is more than credible.

I disagree with this. The original movie wasn't very successful to my understanding. The real reason the franchise got so many installments is KKvsG.

[Tohosaurus]

I disagree with this. The original movie wasn't very successful to my understanding. The real reason the franchise got so many installments is KKvsG.

I actually agree with your last statement. King Kong vs Godzilla grossed over twice internationally what Godzilla/KotM originally had. Godzilla was somewhat controversial at the time as being a bit exploitative of recent events (much as how a new G film would be if it related itself to the recent Japanese disasters), but it was reasonably successful in Japan. In the United States, the edited version was indeed a commercial success, grossing $2 million in America alone (measly by today's standards, lol). Admittedly, Rodan actually grossed more in the United States if I recall correctly. However, my point is that we probably wouldn't have even received KKvG and had one (MAYBE two films) and it would've been mostly a stand alone as with other Toho monster movies at that time. GRA was lousy and didn't perform very well, which may be why Toho didn't launch a new Godzilla film for seven years rather than much sooner as became the norm for Showa Godzilla films.

[Tamura]

^ GRA actually did very good business, both in Japan and the US.

[Tohosaurus]

^ GRA actually did very good business, both in Japan and the US.

Did it now? Interesting. I had heard otherwise.