Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

[Goji]

I see, so that could possibly be why we didn't hear him in BIOLLANTE.

[Tamura]

Goji has confirmed that WAR OF THE GARGANTUAS' international dub has CCL voices in it, including but not limited to the Kirishima and Shirigami voice actors from BIOLLANTE plus Gengo and his girlfriend's voices from GIGAN. The guide will be edited accordingly.

[Goji]

The Shirigami dubber appears to dub several characters, though his lines are always really brief. I have my suspicions he dubs Kenji Sahara's character as well, since it sounds a lot like him in one particular scene, but don't quote me on that.

Regrettably, the Toho logo is missing, as are "The End" titles, so I have no idea if this used Toho's International English logo or not.

[Tamura]

Added some info about PRINCESS FROM THE MOON's international dub.

[Ethan]

There is a shot in Godzilla 1985 which I can't seem to find in the Japanese version. This takes place during Godzilla's attack on the Russian freighter:
Could it be another case of the US version being based on a workprint?

[Goji]

That's interesting actually...I could have sworn that shot was in the original version, but I know that you're also very familiar with ROG/G '85, so I will take your word on it. Weird..

[omgitsgodzilla]

toying with the idea of creating a .pdf book of this guide, only far more fleshed out, serving the purpose of showcasing, in a very detailed fashion, the differences found in all known English versions of these films and said versions' various incarnations, to document their production with interviews with surviving dubbers, writers, actors, etc., to document their release history, and at the same time including stuff like complete dubbing cast lists (something really cool I've yet to see), English language posters and other ads, etc. But that would be more for diehards, and the guide in this thread is something meant to be more digestible for everyone.

I'd love to see that, personally.

[MaxDefiant]

I'm toying with the idea of creating a .pdf book of this guide, only far more fleshed out, serving the purpose of showcasing, in a very detailed fashion, the differences found in all known English versions of these films and said versions' various incarnations, to document their production with interviews with surviving dubbers, writers, actors, etc., to document their release history, and at the same time including stuff like complete dubbing cast lists (something really cool I've yet to see), English language posters and other ads, etc. But that would be more for diehards, and the guide in this thread is something meant to be more digestible for everyone.

I too would LOVE to see something that shows the differences between the original Japanese releases and the Americanized versions. Would you literally set up 2 TVs and 2 DVD/VHS players and play them side-by-side then pause to document what you see?

[Tamura]

Added the name of GFW's dubbing studio (Red Angel Media).

[o.supreme]

I've read the informaiton that seems to indicate that the German DVD has the correct original presentation of what was seen in the United States for "Frankenstein Conquers the World". The only problem is well... Its in German (for those that dont speak German that is). I've tried to search to no avail, does anyone know of any video footage, Youtube etc... which has this available to view?

[Tamura]

When will this be stickied?

[o.supreme]

Tamura, would you cnosider adding the "lost" Toho International Dub of The Three Treasures to your list?

[Joseph Goodman]

RODAN

-US version released in 1957 by Distributors Corporation of America. Features some additional Japanese-shot footage (presumably from the Japanese workprint the US version was edited from),

As good a reason as any to bump this thread....


I'd like to call "not so!" on this one. The source for the claim that the DCA version of "Rodan" contains additional Japanese-shot footage seems to be an article, written by Brian Culver, that appeared in the Kaiju-Fan magazine sometime in 1998 (http://www.historyvortex.org/TohoAmerica2.html). This article cites several instances of footage unique to the American version, however, the last time I had my Classic Media disc of this film out, it was quite apparent that all instances of claimed "unique" footage were, in fact, existing shots that had been optically zoomed in, flipped, or otherwise manipulated.

Additionally, they wouldn't have come from a workprint, even if there were actually new scenes in the DCA version. A workprint is a print of each camera roll, used to assemble the final edit of the film. Once the workprint was finished, the original camera negative rolls would be cut to conform to the finalized workprint. Along the way, the workprint would've acquired quite a bit of wear and tear, to say nothing of grease pencil marks, tape, etc. In the early days of Eastmancolor (i.e the mid-fifties), it also wasn't unheard of for workprints to have been on b&w stock. A workprint certainly wouldn't have made an acceptable element for Toho to print off an element to send DCA, especially with the quality of the early Eastmancolor duplication stocks. Toho would've sent DCA an interpositive (a print from the camera negative with the same low contrast and orange mask as a camera negative, used for printing subsequent internegatives, i.e. the final DCA negative), or separation positives (three low-contrast positive prints, one for each color layer of the negative... yellow, cyan, magenta, which would then be printed to a final single internegative), but certainly not a workprint.

[Brian R Culver]

I'd like to call "not so!" on this one. The source for the claim that the DCA v]rsion of "Rodan" contains additional Japanese-shot footage seems to be an article, written by Brian Culver, that appeared in the Kaiju-Fan magazine sometime in 1998 (http://www.historyvortex.org/TohoAmerica2.html). This article cites several instances of footage unique to the American version, however, the last time I had my Classic Media disc of this film out, it was quite apparent that all instances of claimed "unique" footage were, in fact, existing shots that had been optically zoomed in, flipped, or otherwise manipulated.

Additionally, they wouldn't have come from a workprint, even if there were actually new scenes in the DCA version. A workprint is a print of each camera roll, used to assemble the final edit of the film. Once the workprint was finished, the original camera negative rolls would be cut to conform to the finalized workprint. Along the way, the workprint would've acquired quite a bit of wear and tear, to say nothing of grease pencil marks, tape, etc. In the early days of Eastmancolor (i.e the mid-fifties), it also wasn't unheard of for workprints to have been on b&w stock. A workprint certainly wouldn't have made an acceptable element for Toho to print off an element to send DCA, especially with the quality of the early Eastmancolor duplication stocks. Toho would've sent DCA an interpositive (a print from the camera negative with the same low contrast and orange mask as a camera negative, used for printing subsequent internegatives, i.e. the final DCA negative), or separation positives (three low-contrast positive prints, one for each color layer of the negative... yellow, cyan, magenta, which would then be printed to a final single internegative), but certainly not a workprint.

Hey Joseph, it’s been a while.

I hope to follow up at more length later about this as most of it is written from memory. In the meantime, consider the following:

- The original source of the claim is not my article, but the 1980 JAPANESE GIANTS #6 article by Ed Godzi and Peter Brothers that I referenced. Having viewed both versions prior to the KF article, I was as skeptical as you. It was only after hours of detailed comparison of the US and Japanese versions that proof became apparent.

- One thing you’re most likely right about is the improper use of the term work print. This was again based on the JG article. What I’m convinced of is that there are at least a handful of frames of Toho shot footage exclusive to the US version.

- Synch up the two versions of the film and/or do a side by side comparison of the shot where Rodan emerges from under the bridge. The US version runs a few frames longer.

- The RODAN analysis was a pain in the ass IIRC and it’s possible there were errors. Corrections are welcome. Unlike many in this fandom I regard the truth as more important than reputation/ego and will admit to making mistakes.

- On that ego/reputation thing, I’m pretty sure most of the typos at the JRR site reflect neither what I submitted to KF nor what was printed.


On an unrelated note, I’ve written two pages of additions/corrections to this page. Should it be done in pieces or one big ass post?


Brian R. Culver

[Goji]

^ Any corrections are more than welcome. I should mention that this version of the guide hasn't been updated in months, because frankly, a lot of people around here don't give a damn about this stuff, and would rather discuss the size of Godzilla's toe nails.

We've updated the version of the guide we have on Facebook multiple times, and it may even include some of the corrections you are planning on pointing out. If you're on Facebook, and interested in joining the "Dubs!" group, just shoot Tamura, me, or Cody Himes a PM, and we'll point you in the right direction!

[CTHimes]

This shot of the two Rodans leaving Fukuoka (Sasebo) is only in the US version of the film.

[Tyler]

I'm for this being stickied.

[Joseph Goodman]

*valid points*

Brian R. Culver

I see where you're coming from, and it's still a great article, don't get me wrong. On the issue of certain shots running a few frames longer in the American cut, I wonder if that still holds true when comparing it to Toho's DVD or Blu-ray masters? The transfer on the Classic Media disc seems to be from Toho's 90's laserdisc; the later DVD and Blu-ray masters may have been from a different source.

I think maybe your corrections could be done as a big-ass post starting it's own thread?

This shot of the two Rodans leaving Fukuoka (Sasebo) is only in the US version of the film.

http://i.imgur.com/U9sBo.png

I agree, I can't find that anywhere in the Japanese version. Does it show up in the Japanese trailer, maybe?

[CTHimes]

I agree, I can't find that anywhere in the Japanese version. Does it show up in the Japanese trailer, maybe?

I checked it out on YouTube. There are a number of alternate takes (especially of SFX shots), but this specific shot is not one of them.

[Tamura]

Great posts, everyone! And thanks for the info about workprints and stuff, Joseph. I'm still kind of rusty on that sort of subject.