Toho Kingdom

MikeSTZillak wrote:Technicly, they did use suits in the U.S. movies.

Well, mo-cap suits. I think people even forget the CGI Godzillas and Kongs are still played by a person.

Maritonic wrote:

_JNavs_ wrote:Yeah no, America would not be kind to suits being used in big budget live action films.

It sounds nuts, but honestly if it was done exceptionally well, it could be great. Think of the animatronics in Jurassic Park as an example. Sure, the scale is significantly different. But it's all about execution of design. If the lighting was right, and everything else done properly, it COULD work.

However, the likelihood of a studio green-lighting such a project that requires the time and money, with people who love the property enough is where I think we'd have a problem.

Yeah it could be, for sure. However like you said Godzilla is way way larger than the JP T-Rex, and the design of the monsters (including Godzilla) would end up being much less intricate and "believable".

I personally think the MV Godzilla looks like a living breathing animal, he feels so alive. More so than suits can do, the breathing, the expressions, the movements, they all feel fluid. A combination of Practical and CG could work, however at that point why not just go 100% CG with practical elements? (Like KOTM with the Serizawa scene).

ILM's Barkley vs. Godzilla commercial from almost 30 years ago featured some fantastic practical special effects for the time that still hold up today, and the FX work there is arguably better than anything Toho was doing at that time. I think a dedicated crew could possibly do even more with mostly practical FX work today on a blockbuster budget, but the problem is that finding that crew would be difficult. No one has done a $100 million Toho-style Godzilla movie before. Who do you go about hiring in Hollywood to do that? I think the time for that has long passed.

Maritonic wrote:

_JNavs_ wrote:Yeah no, America would not be kind to suits being used in big budget live action films.

It sounds nuts, but honestly if it was done exceptionally well, it could be great. Think of the animatronics in Jurassic Park as an example. Sure, the scale is significantly different. But it's all about execution of design. If the lighting was right, and everything else done properly, it COULD work.

However, the likelihood of a studio green-lighting such a project that requires the time and money, with people who love the property enough is where I think we'd have a problem.

The ironic thing is it's cheaper than CGI, you don't have to pay an animator for every frame. And people need to learn cheap =/= bad. Use the CGI for when the other FX aren't working, enhance them.

Dv-218 wrote:While the idea sounds iffy on paper, I will say that Maritonic has a point. With proper execution, budget, cinemotography and lighting, it could actually work surprisingly well.
However, this brings me to my next point: it all comes down ton execution rather than the effects. Tbh the constant CGI vs suits debate is pointless- both forms of art are equally valid, both require a decent amount of effort (although different types of effort) and both can either work fantastically or fail miserably- all depends on how the movie approaches and uses them.

I know you're just talking generally, but I don't want this to be a CGI vs Suits argument. I don't either to be chosen over the other, a poor artist uses only one tool instead of all at his disposal. I think both digital and practical are capable of doing things the other can't, they have flaws and strengths that complement each other and when married together, and done well, do wonderus things neither could on their own.

Added in 1 minute 40 seconds:

Terasawa wrote:ILM's Barkley vs. Godzilla commercial from almost 30 years ago featured some fantastic practical special effects for the time that still hold up today, and the FX work there is arguably better than anything Toho was doing at that time. I think a dedicated crew could possibly do even more with mostly practical FX work today on a blockbuster budget, but the problem is that finding that crew would be difficult. No one has done a $100 million Toho-style Godzilla movie before. Who do you go about hiring in Hollywood to do that? I think the time for that has long passed.

Yeah, the 90s was the prefect time and Hollywood dropped the ball on that. The 94 script for Tri-Star Godzilla made it clear they were gonna use pretty much every effect short of claymation.

Living Corpse wrote:

Maritonic wrote:

_JNavs_ wrote:Yeah no, America would not be kind to suits being used in big budget live action films.

It sounds nuts, but honestly if it was done exceptionally well, it could be great. Think of the animatronics in Jurassic Park as an example. Sure, the scale is significantly different. But it's all about execution of design. If the lighting was right, and everything else done properly, it COULD work.

However, the likelihood of a studio green-lighting such a project that requires the time and money, with people who love the property enough is where I think we'd have a problem.

The ironic thing is it's cheaper than CGI, you don't have to pay an animator for every frame. And people need to learn cheap =/= bad. Use the CGI for when the other FX aren't working, enhance them.

Dv-218 wrote:While the idea sounds iffy on paper, I will say that Maritonic has a point. With proper execution, budget, cinemotography and lighting, it could actually work surprisingly well.
However, this brings me to my next point: it all comes down ton execution rather than the effects. Tbh the constant CGI vs suits debate is pointless- both forms of art are equally valid, both require a decent amount of effort (although different types of effort) and both can either work fantastically or fail miserably- all depends on how the movie approaches and uses them.

I know you're just talking generally, but I don't want this to be a CGI vs Suits argument. I don't either to be chosen over the other, a poor artist uses only one tool instead of all at his disposal. I think both digital and practical are capable of doing things the other can't, they have flaws and strengths that complement each other and when married together, and done well, do wonderus things neither could on their own.

Added in 1 minute 40 seconds:

Terasawa wrote:ILM's Barkley vs. Godzilla commercial from almost 30 years ago featured some fantastic practical special effects for the time that still hold up today, and the FX work there is arguably better than anything Toho was doing at that time. I think a dedicated crew could possibly do even more with mostly practical FX work today on a blockbuster budget, but the problem is that finding that crew would be difficult. No one has done a $100 million Toho-style Godzilla movie before. Who do you go about hiring in Hollywood to do that? I think the time for that has long passed.

Yeah, the 90s was the prefect time and Hollywood dropped the ball on that. The 94 script for Tri-Star Godzilla made it clear they were gonna use pretty much every effect short of claymation.

Completely agreed ont the 2nd point. Tha ability to combine both types off effects together into one seamless portrayal opens up a lot of possibilities, and I would love to see a western Godzilla movie utilize it.

I agree, I would absolutely love to see a Western Godzilla film implement both CG and practical/suit or puppetry. Audiences aren’t really given enough credit with the things they like or would/would not accept. It’s all about how a hypothetical studio would execute such an idea. If done well, suits and practical effects even on as massive a scale as a Godzilla movie would seamlessly blend in with the CGI element, and could create something extremely special and striking.

Again, the execution, passion and especially expense would be the most important aspects of something like this. I’d be all for it, though. Hell, movies still use claymation and audiences love them.

Wanna see a Hollywood Ultraman and Gamera. There's 4 monsters responsible for making the kaiju genera. Godzilla is the first kaiju, King Kong was the grandfather monster that inspired Godzilla, but Ultraman and Gamera are also important. It was cool to get a new IP (while it lasted) with Pacific Rim, and I hope we get more new ones, but let's not forget to the rest of the characters who helped make this genera what it is.

Just don't make it bad.

Living Corpse wrote:Wanna see a Hollywood Ultraman and Gamera. There's 4 monsters responsible for making the kaiju genera. Godzilla is the first kaiju, King Kong was the grandfather monster that inspired Godzilla, but Ultraman and Gamera are also important. It was cool to get a new IP (while it lasted) with Pacific Rim, and I hope we get more new ones, but let's not forget to the rest of the characters who helped make this genera what it is.

Just don't make it bad.

American Ultraman should happen,but it should be nowhere near the Monsterverse. Gamera should be in it though, mostly just because we could finally see GVG happen.

tyrantgoji wrote:

Living Corpse wrote:Wanna see a Hollywood Ultraman and Gamera. There's 4 monsters responsible for making the kaiju genera. Godzilla is the first kaiju, King Kong was the grandfather monster that inspired Godzilla, but Ultraman and Gamera are also important. It was cool to get a new IP (while it lasted) with Pacific Rim, and I hope we get more new ones, but let's not forget to the rest of the characters who helped make this genera what it is.

Just don't make it bad.

American Ultraman should happen,but it should be nowhere near the Monsterverse. Gamera should be in it though, mostly just because we could finally see GVG happen.

Yeah Ultraman I don't want in the Monsterverse but I do want him to have a (good) western movie. Gamera I do want in the Monsterverse but be happy if he got a good western film at all.

Living Corpse wrote:Wanna see a Hollywood Ultraman and Gamera. There's 4 monsters responsible for making the kaiju genera. Godzilla is the first kaiju, King Kong was the grandfather monster that inspired Godzilla, but Ultraman and Gamera are also important. It was cool to get a new IP (while it lasted) with Pacific Rim, and I hope we get more new ones, but let's not forget to the rest of the characters who helped make this genera what it is.

Just don't make it bad.

Ditto here.

The way I see it those four are the faces of the kaiju genre and should be called The Big Four.

Fun fact too. Will Smith is a fan of Ultraman and stated if the film were to ever get an American remake that he would love to play the star lead of the titular character.

So that’s it huh, we some kinda Science Patrol

Brad Peyton and Dwayne Johnson said they were fans promoting Rampage as well, so that's more big names.


Honestly, though, I'd rather see what someone would do with an Ultraman story before speculation on who should do it

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:

Living Corpse wrote:Wanna see a Hollywood Ultraman and Gamera. There's 4 monsters responsible for making the kaiju genera. Godzilla is the first kaiju, King Kong was the grandfather monster that inspired Godzilla, but Ultraman and Gamera are also important. It was cool to get a new IP (while it lasted) with Pacific Rim, and I hope we get more new ones, but let's not forget to the rest of the characters who helped make this genera what it is.

Just don't make it bad.

Ditto here.

The way I see it those four are the faces of the kaiju genre and should be called The Big Four.

Fun fact too. Will Smith is a fan of Ultraman and stated if the film were to ever get an American remake that he would love to play the star lead of the titular character.

It's actually interesting when you stop and realize we had Power Rangers films in the west before Ultraman or Gamera. Yeah I heard about that, which would help a western Ultraman movie.

1. Will Smith is a very recognizable name: People love him.

2: He's a fan: He's gonna actually be invested in doing it.

3. He's somewhat of a comedian: Not saying Ultraman is kiddy stuff but the Ultra series has it's comedic moments. Ultraman could be a much needed light hearted-ish fun movie.

4. The stars will be the same character, so no star conflict: I get why they get big name actors for these western takes on kaiju films. I really do, most people don't realize the monsters are characters into themselves cause it's pretty rare in western films, King Kong being the notable exception. But when people say they were only seeing Godzilla 2014 for Brain, a lot of them meant it and left as soon as his character died. At that point it's like why are you even at a Godzilla movie? If one guy was the only reason you're there then it never appealed to you to begin with. Look I like Halle Barry, but I wouldn't see the Twilight films just because she was in them (if she was).

There's that weird conflect that people don't seem to realize that in the kaiju genera, other monsters, besides King Kong, are also characters as well, not just the humans. But Ultraman is an alien who uses a human as a host. So that solves that problem since the main human character and the main monster character are one and the same.

G2000 wrote:So that’s it huh, we some kinda Science Patrol

I love you.

The entire film would end up being a Power Rangers comedy with cool action moments starring Will Smith lol.


Not a big fan.

_JNavs_ wrote:The entire film would end up being a Power Rangers comedy with cool action moments starring Will Smith lol.


Not a big fan.

On the flip side, your description just got me even more sold on the premise. I'm game.

Living Corpse wrote:

_JNavs_ wrote:The entire film would end up being a Power Rangers comedy with cool action moments starring Will Smith lol.


Not a big fan.

On the flip side, your description just got me even more sold on the premise. I'm game.

Tbh I feel like you can't get more Japanese oriented than Ultraman. Like yeah of course Godzilla, but he's flexible as a concept and a character, Ultraman though? Not so much. He and his concept are very specifically Eastern.

_JNavs_ wrote:

Living Corpse wrote:

_JNavs_ wrote:The entire film would end up being a Power Rangers comedy with cool action moments starring Will Smith lol.


Not a big fan.

On the flip side, your description just got me even more sold on the premise. I'm game.

Tbh I feel like you can't get more Japanese oriented than Ultraman. Like yeah of course Godzilla, but he's flexible as a concept and a character, Ultraman though? Not so much. He and his concept are very specifically Eastern.

True, but he is a super hero, I feel if you play up that angel he can work since the GA takes heroes more seriously now than they used to. Maybe advertise it as Superman meets Men in Black?

Living Corpse wrote:It's actually interesting when you stop and realize we had Power Rangers films in the west before Ultraman or Gamera. Yeah I heard about that, which would help a western Ultraman movie.

1. Will Smith is a very recognizable name: People love him.

2: He's a fan: He's gonna actually be invested in doing it.

3. He's somewhat of a comedian: Not saying Ultraman is kiddy stuff but the Ultra series has it's comedic moments. Ultraman could be a much needed light hearted-ish fun movie.

4. The stars will be the same character, so no star conflict: I get why they get big name actors for these western takes on kaiju films. I really do, most people don't realize the monsters are characters into themselves cause it's pretty rare in western films, King Kong being the notable exception. But when people say they were only seeing Godzilla 2014 for Brain, a lot of them meant it and left as soon as his character died. At that point it's like why are you even at a Godzilla movie? If one guy was the only reason you're there then it never appealed to you to begin with. Look I like Halle Barry, but I wouldn't see the Twilight films just because she was in them (if she was).

There's that weird conflect that people don't seem to realize that in the kaiju genera, other monsters, besides King Kong, are also characters as well, not just the humans. But Ultraman is an alien who uses a human as a host. So that solves that problem since the main human character and the main monster character are one and the same.

Why I'm totally all up for the idea of him being the lead.

Better then the dreaded abomination we saw in Aladdin known as Giant Smurf Will Smith.

GodzillaFan1990's wrote: Better then the dreaded abomination we saw in Aladdin known as Giant Smurf Will Smith.

Thought that was those twin boss guys from Devil May Cry 3.

The more I think about it really though an American Ultraman reboot with Will Smith could be the giant monster/kaiju genre's answer to DCEU's Shazam!/MCU's Guardians of the Galaxy if you get what I'm saying.

Only instead of just giant monsters you got a giant alien superhero to boot. So a combination of giant monsters/kaijus and superhero with an well known actor to boot could prove to do at least decent if not hopefully successful.